Snapshot2020
Well-known member
Check Alex Phan Facebook Page regarding the Z9 and focus tracking. He lists the various focus modes he’s been using on the Z9, plus is Alex Phan a Sony Ambassador ? Go figure….
Official Nikon Z9 Launch, Info, and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Steve
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thelordofthelight
Well-known member
There is a dedicated thread in FM where we are discussing about AF settings and I posted some of my findings there. Basically, when there are BG distractions where the camera struggles, wide area af modes work really well in conjunction with an RSF override for subject detection to be turned off. Better to ignore some of these baseless comments from folks whose only objective is to justify their brand. There are enough and more "youtube" videos that makes any camera from any brand look terrible when it comes to bird eye af or AF in general.
Z9 autofocus optimization
www.fredmiranda.com
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
EDIT: My mistake here. pg 600 of Nikon manual says 3D defaults to sticky setting of 3 whereas Auto area can be 3, 4 or 5. Its just that when 1 or 2 is selected, it defaults to 3. My apologies!
Alex Phan seems to have posted a gull series where he claims he set his AF sensitivity to 5 (sticky) on auto area af mode and yet the AF picked the BG and refers to some Z9 pro users group. Classic example of what happens when you do not take the time to learn the AF system and the user manual. Pg 600 of the Nikon manual has this defined clearly. Basically, when on auto area af, the camera defaults to a sensitivity setting between 1-3 i.e. a highly responsive setting ( which means sticky options 4 and 5 are ruled out). When on 3D tracking mode, the camera defaults to a setting of 3. If one needs a stickier setting then wide area modes are the go to options as you can then take control of a stickier AF tracking with lock on setting of 4 or 5.
Alex Phan seems to have posted a gull series where he claims he set his AF sensitivity to 5 (sticky) on auto area af mode and yet the AF picked the BG and refers to some Z9 pro users group. Classic example of what happens when you do not take the time to learn the AF system and the user manual. Pg 600 of the Nikon manual has this defined clearly. Basically, when on auto area af, the camera defaults to a sensitivity setting between 1-3 i.e. a highly responsive setting ( which means sticky options 4 and 5 are ruled out). When on 3D tracking mode, the camera defaults to a setting of 3. If one needs a stickier setting then wide area modes are the go to options as you can then take control of a stickier AF tracking with lock on setting of 4 or 5.
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O
Well-known member
THANK YOU SO MUCH
It validates what i stated in my earlier response.
I am shooting the Z9 as i would the D6 D5 D850, then with one step at a time i look at each feature right along side the manual, then i play and work with that point till its ingrained, as time goes on then i will get to understand what to do and what not to do in order to drive the Z9 tracking focusing system to its potential.
To Date i know what it can do and what i shouldn't do............time is my best friend with a long way to go.
As far as focusing systems go Auto tracking, eye tracking, Loin tracking, Uber driver tracking and 10 other tracking subjects allows Nikon to claim it has the most tracking settings of any camera manufacturer in the world, YEEEEE ok that's spin from marketing to target the ignorant buyers....nothing wrong with that, its business and the way we roll in this sad world we live in today..
Lets face it, how many people read the instructions or manuals before operating an item...........
How many people transfer their bad habits to the new gear.
Bottom line, in my way of thinking.......there is a difference between challenging sports action and wild life photography, in many cases a lot and other less so.
I find the D6 in sports photography just nails what you point it at, yes, again what you point it at....ok, that's what its supposed to do., The Z9 D5 all do the similar thing, nail what you point it at when your in control.
Now you bring on 45mp/50mp not 16 or 20, but 45mp/50, added to 20-30 fps, added to it is built IBIS, then you smother it all over with a layer of a new Auto tracking system that targets the body then the head then the eye using colour detect, this tracking system then its supposed to follow this subject and not let it go all at incredible speed, now if the connection is interrupted momentarily its supposed to remember the subject and lock back on again using colour detect.......be it Nikon i think Sony or Canon use contrast or a combination of ???......WOW i may not be 100% correct all teh time but you get the gist of where its heading.
Now with the old D4s and broken VR on the cheap old Sigma 150-500 you nail the crap out of a rainbow Lorikeet at 10,000 iso and 11 fps in JPEG fine LOL hand held, wow it don't get better than that, Now Along comes the D6 bingo dose the same thing, along comes the D850 dose the same thing, along comes the Z9 dose the same thing, along comes the A1 and R3 dose the same thing,....all when your in control.
Then we introduce eye tracking, auto tracking, 3d tracking, call it what ever........and there is a new ingredient in the mix that has some challenges even for all three brands.
Thom Hogan says he prefers his D6 for sports action over his A1 because its stickier.
These new sophisticated mirror less tools fall into the hands of new owners and its game on, its easy to point out when something is wrong, why its wrong can often be found in et mirror.
I personally think that 3 D tracking for all brands is still in need of a way to go, be it number 1, 2 or brand 3, nothing really beats you being in control, be it through the
new tracking system or completely with out it, you need to develop some new skill sets to drive any new generation mirror less camera at this level.
For me i don't personally see a lot of need for the auto 3D tracking be it any camera brand, this may change going forward. At this point in time I prefer to be in control.
That said, I have no issues with the Z9, what so ever.............especially when i am in control.
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
Fully automatic AF modes are very good, much better than on the DSLRs but they're still not the most reliable in the most demanding situations. With the Z9 what I really like is how well the camera performs when you use the auto AF modes alongside semi auto modes. I start my AF with one of the wide area modes (mostly wide L) and this works best with getting the initial focus aquisition when photographing subjects in busy backgrounds. Once the camera acquires focus and tracks, i wait for the subject to get closer ( say 50% or more of the frame) and by this time the DoF gets creamy with less distractions and then I instantly switch to auto area or 3d af mode to track the eyes/head.
Darwin
Well-known member
I’ve been doing the same. I have seen the Z9 consistently lose focus when a bird goes from sky to busy BG, but, it hasn’t lost focus when the subject is in range of me actually taking the shot. If I’m within range it has been very accurate. Unfortunately a combination of bad weather and responsibilities have kept me from experimenting more. I would like to see how well it tracks faster, smaller subjects like sparrows.
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
Have you tried wide area L with lock on settings set to 5 ( subject motion set to erratic)? This is my default AF assigned to shutter button. This helps with faster initial AF acquisition most of the time, even in busy backgrounds, subject transition from sky to cluttered bg etc. This works well for me and what I have also done is to set my lens fn button as an override button to turn off subject tracking. So, in the rare occassion when even the wide area L struggles, i just press my lens fn to turn off subject detection and that has helped in such situations as well particularly when subjects move from sky or clean bg to a cluttered area.
O
Well-known member
For me........The general perception or reality is that the Sony A1 is he best in the business with the R3 on its heels or even possibly now on par i don't know for certain as i haven't followed it lately.
The Z9 is in third place at the moment and that's been known before it was even shipped, will the Z9 close the gap, possibly, will the Z9 become better who knows, if there are issues then they need to be tangible ones and Nikon will address them i feel.
So there is a lot of development still need across the range of ALL brands, as i said some are nearly there others are close but not any are perfect yet..
I am not saying DSLRS are better than mirror less or vice versa, i am saying in some cases applications they are different.
Regardless of any brand dslrs or any brand of mirror less, i think the 3d and all that tracking stuff is handy and works well in many cases but better up close than afar, for me until i am completely convinced i like being in control as what i focus on.
That said i have no concerns or issues with the Z9 to where i am at so far.
Take a Bottle Brush tree that looks like 100 rainbow lorikeets all heavily camouflaged amongst the same coloured flowers and green foliage, which camera will with auto tracking stay on the Lorikeet and not waiver...is the answer i assume none, if i turn of the auto tracking and use the 9 points in large with the centre square on the head of the bird what am i going to get ?
These are Jpeg snaps heavily cropped just calendar sample shots taken on the D850 form memory...........
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No offence but it's kind of silly to point out examples like this when the camera has only been in peoples hands for less than 2 weeks and most less than that. I'm sure every single person who has an A1 or any other camera has thousands of out of focus photos on their camera that they took when they had the camera for a short time, even now. It takes a long time to figure out wha works best in each situation or they would only have ONE focus mode. Give it time folks!! Let the trial and errors take their normal course.
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arbitrage
Well-known member
A Z9 is now allocated to me out of my dealer's shipment expected "next week" (no idea when). I paid for it yesterday.
Can't wait to put it up back to back, side to side, with my A1.
From what I've seen and read so far I know I'm going to have to operate this camera a little differently from how I operate my Sony cameras. I have owned a Z series camera for a couple years just to keep familiar with the Z AF modes. Obviously the Z9 will be adding the 3D and subject detect layers on top of what I know from my little Z50.
Can't wait to put it up back to back, side to side, with my A1.
From what I've seen and read so far I know I'm going to have to operate this camera a little differently from how I operate my Sony cameras. I have owned a Z series camera for a couple years just to keep familiar with the Z AF modes. Obviously the Z9 will be adding the 3D and subject detect layers on top of what I know from my little Z50.
arbitrage
Well-known member
Z9 will be added to my rankings ASAP.
So far having owned the R5 for 6 months and the A1 for 9 months I will say in regards purely to Eye-AF that when bird is in a pose that would be a keeper shot the R5=A1. When bird is in a pose you probably wouldn't keep (turned partly or fully away, head tucked under etc) the R5>A1.
For BIF it is hard to say...I find BEAF to be not very valuable for BIF...BEAF will activate with either camera if the user can pan accurately enough to keep the bird nice and steady in the frame.
R5 seems to have a bit deeper AI library to pull from than A1.
So far having owned the R5 for 6 months and the A1 for 9 months I will say in regards purely to Eye-AF that when bird is in a pose that would be a keeper shot the R5=A1. When bird is in a pose you probably wouldn't keep (turned partly or fully away, head tucked under etc) the R5>A1.
For BIF it is hard to say...I find BEAF to be not very valuable for BIF...BEAF will activate with either camera if the user can pan accurately enough to keep the bird nice and steady in the frame.
R5 seems to have a bit deeper AI library to pull from than A1.
An observation and picking your post as an example, hope you don't mind. It seems to me that while "fanboy-ism" is vocal and YouTube personalities excercebate the appearance of brand-wars, so many of us have moved to owning and using multiple systems. I, for example am using in different contexts Nikon, Fuji, Sony and Ricoh.
Since there isn't an option for shutting off subject detection available for that button, how are you doing it? I'm guessing Recall Shooting or switching to Wide (L) without tracking?
BTW - I too am finding Wide (L) works well and if subject detection see the target, I have Fn set to toggle to 3D for more flexibility in the frame once I have the initial lock. I'm thinking I may switch the Z9 to shutter release AF though as I don't really like using the Fn button like that, I think I'll assign 3D to the AF-On button. Still working it out
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
Hi Steve,
You are right. I use the recall shooting functions that's set to subject detection off (while my default subject detection is set to animals). I have then assigned this to the lens fn button. Now, i use Wide Area-L as my default AF mode via the shutter release button. This way, when i press the shutter the wide area L works with tracking and when I want tracking disabled, i just hold the lens fn button, so the same wide area L now works without tracking (I found this to work very similar to group af with close subject priority). I have assigned the auto modes like Auto area and 3D tracking to AF ON and Joystick respectively. The RSF hold wont work for these 2 options (actually it also doesn't make sense to have subject detect set to off when using these modes).
You are right. I use the recall shooting functions that's set to subject detection off (while my default subject detection is set to animals). I have then assigned this to the lens fn button. Now, i use Wide Area-L as my default AF mode via the shutter release button. This way, when i press the shutter the wide area L works with tracking and when I want tracking disabled, i just hold the lens fn button, so the same wide area L now works without tracking (I found this to work very similar to group af with close subject priority). I have assigned the auto modes like Auto area and 3D tracking to AF ON and Joystick respectively. The RSF hold wont work for these 2 options (actually it also doesn't make sense to have subject detect set to off when using these modes).
Since there isn't an option for shutting off subject detection available for that button, how are you doing it? I'm guessing Recall Shooting or switching to Wide (L) without tracking?
BTW - I too am finding Wide (L) works well and if subject detection see the target, I have Fn set to toggle to 3D for more flexibility in the frame once I have the initial lock. I'm thinking I may switch the Z9 to shutter release AF though as I don't really like using the Fn button like that, I think I'll assign 3D to the AF-On button. Still working it out
arbitrage
Well-known member
Since there isn't an option for shutting off subject detection available for that button, how are you doing it? I'm guessing Recall Shooting or switching to Wide (L) without tracking?
BTW - I too am finding Wide (L) works well and if subject detection see the target, I have Fn set to toggle to 3D for more flexibility in the frame once I have the initial lock. I'm thinking I may switch the Z9 to shutter release AF though as I don't really like using the Fn button like that, I think I'll assign 3D to the AF-On button. Still working it out
I'm glad I switched over to full on shutter release shooting a couple years ago (during my A9 days). The Z9 is going to be a much easier camera to shoot fast action with if one uses shutter button AF just for the fact that you will have two AF modes ready to go without fiddling with those front Fn buttons or the awkward joystick button (using shutter and AF-ON). For people dead set against shutter AF I think the only way to go will be using the lens button to get to the alternative AF mode. 500PF has this button in a great position...not sure about all the lenses though.
For me it is looking like I will have Wide-Area AF Large on the shutter with 3D on the AF-ON. My L-Fn may be a Recall shooting with subject tracking Off. However, I believe we only have the option for a single Recall set (unlike Sony's 3 sets) so I may not waste a set just to turn subject tracking Off. I will more likely want a set to have Single Point with a slower SS and Auto ISO in order to do perched shots without having to change my main action SS and higher ISO.
FW wish list for me will be the ability to toggle Subject Tracking On/Off via a button. Also to allow multiple Recall shooting sets would be a big benefit.
Yeah, I was playing with Wide (L) and 3D after the pickup over the last week or so and it's seems to work well. I have used both shutter release AF and back button on and off so it wont' be a big transition (LOL, I hope).
I wish Nikon would consider doing tracking like Sony though - it's nice to use something like Zone tracking to pick up the subject and once it identifies the subject, it switches to full tracking without the extra step we have with Nikon. I think Nikon is still too set on having tracking (3d) and regular AF modes independent. For my a1, I have it set so I can pick any AF mode and the AF-On button does tracking and AEL does regular AF. It would be cool if Nikon had like Wide (L) 3D where it would act like Wide (L) until it identified a subject (eye, animal etc) and the automatically jump to 3D.
Cool, I thought maybe I was missing a new item on the menu after the firmware update!
Thanks!
So far I have it as the top item in "My Menu" and programed a Fn button to go to the top item in my menu. So far not bad but would be nice if it were 1 click!
Nope I sure didn’t.
ExactlyThe very first day I was outside giggling at how quickly it was focusing on the little birds
Me too!!
So you're saying you never had blurry images?
You don't need to look too far to find trouble in paradise:
Sony a1 autofocus and weird behaviour: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)
Sony a1 autofocus and weird behaviour: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)
I guess everyone but that guy had sharp photos from day one! Go figure!
OOPS! Another problem...Oh wow! May have a few more guys in that thread! OK? Enough....it's silly!
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