NatureLover
Member
I find I'm getting significant noise at ISO6400 (more than when I use same lens/settings on my D7200). Do other D850 users experience the same?
SIGMA 150-600mm @ f/8 1/2000 - 1/4000
SIGMA 150-600mm @ f/8 1/2000 - 1/4000
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Whether noise is objectionable or not is very subjective and depends on what you are trying to achieve with the image. I have both the D850 and D7200, both of which are the highest rated Nikon sensors in the FX and DX categories respectively and both perform well at higher ISOs. Here's the DxOMark measurements. The green to red bar on the right is an SNR guideline with green showing acceptable SNR ratio and Red not so much. Personally, my threshold is ISO 1600, but of course, I'll go higher if I really want the shot.I find I'm getting significant noise at ISO6400 (more than when I use same lens/settings on my D7200). Do other D850 users experience the same?
SIGMA 150-600mm @ f/8 1/2000 - 1/4000
Thanks Strodav. I'm not a pixel peeper but on editing, to date it seemed like for me the D7200 was performing slightly better than the D850.... guess I'll have to give it more time. When I try to zoom in to the image I uploaded, I am not seeing the same effect as on my original images.
I use DeNoise. The image submitted was without noise removal. I was just getting the impression that the 45MP D850 had more noise than the 24MP D7200 under similar conditions
D850, 500mm, f8, 1/3200, ISO 5000 / 8000
Glad you did not take offense at my comment. I mentioned it because it my my first reaction when I started shooting with a D750. And when I saw prints from the images I shot, I realized that I had no worries. And it did not hurt that a few folks reminded me about viewing images at 100%. I guess I am a creature of habit and get used to what I know.Thank you everyone, and yes Ken, that was my perception.
I am also wondering if what the OP could be seeing is unfamiliarity of looking at a 45MP image at 100% vs. 24MP at 100%. I know that when I started shooting with higher resolution bodies and looking at the images at 100%, I thought they looked a bit noisier than lower MP camera bodies that I was more familiar with. Then again, I realized that I was seeing a much smaller portion of the image filling my screen. Just a thought.
Do you have any NR turned on in camera? I actually like the NR that Nikon uses, I have an older version of Capture that allows me to set the amounts (more specific than the in camera) and I find I rarely need anything else. As said previously, the more you crop the more noise you'll see.I use DeNoise. The image submitted was without noise removal. I was just getting the impression that the 45MP D850 had more noise than the 24MP D7200 under similar conditions
How are you evaluating and comparing the noise in the two images? If you're zooming in to 100% zoom level (1:1 pixel view) with both cameras then the noise will look much higher in a D850 as you're zooming in much further to fill the monitor with the D850's high resolution than you would with a lower resolution camera like the D7200.I find I'm getting significant noise at ISO6400 (more than when I use same lens/settings on my D7200). Do other D850 users experience the same?
SIGMA 150-600mm @ f/8 1/2000 - 1/4000
Yup, fully agree. I shot D7200 and D750 myself before and this is what happened to me when processing the first images of my D850, not mentioning that by now I am shooting a 16.2 MPixel oldie side by side with the D850 . And your observation also goes in sync with @Steve 's recommendation documented in his video about cropping requiring to drop the max. ISO you shoot at. If you forget about software for while the SNR (signal to noise ratio) of a sensor is more or less directly following the single pixel area size. Basically smaller pixel area size means more noise compared for shooting at the same ISO. On the other hand downsampling helps to eliminate noise or - better said reduce it's visibility.
This is the main reason, why I always recommend to compare sensor performance in terms of SNR for "screen" rather than "print" in the DXO terminology. The "screen" setting is looking at active displaying like with monitors, beamers etc. and focuses on what you experienced with viewing pictures at 100%. The "print" setting is comparing images that are re-sampled to a reference print size ans quality for comparison. The latter usually makes the differences between sensors smaller than they really are.
The diagram shown above to compare the D850 and the D7200 is showing the print comparison and due to the resolution advantage of almost factor 2 the D850 gives you a significant better headroom in terms of noise being visible in prints, because downsampling helps to eliminate noise. If you look at the the same comparison for "screen" you'll see that the D7200 and the D850 are absolutely on par, which is no surprise because the pixel area size of the D7200 DX sensor with 24 MPixel and the D850 FX sensor with 45 MPixel is almost identical.
If, on the other hand you compare a D850 with a D4s, the pixel area size of the latter is almost three times as big, and as a consequence in terms of noise level the oldie gives you about 2 full stops advantage in noise level translated in ISO setting - which is quite a lot.
But this comes at the price that the 16.2 MPixel don't give even anything close to the cropping headroom you have with a D850.
Another aspect is that the te noise created by different sensors may actually look pretty different. Due to the effect described above my D850 (45 Mpixel) creates significantly more noise compared to my D4s (16,2 MPixel) at the same ISO level when comparing a full image of the D4s against a 16,2 MPixel crop of the D850. But at the same time the D4s has more white noise (image looking "mosaicy" with variations of brightness on pixel level) whereas the D850 creates more color noise (image showing RGB sprinkles).
The latter type of noise appears to more distracting to our eyes.
As always, if you hve to gain on one side, you have to pay a price on another and which way to go always depends on what you are trying to do .
I use DeNoise. The image submitted was without noise removal. I was just getting the impression that the 45MP D850 had more noise than the 24MP D7200 under similar conditions
It looks I have about the same amout of noise at 6400 iso on my D850.
This is a not denoised cropped image, is it ?
Even if I had some very good result at 5000 iso in some cases, I generally try not to go up to 3200 iso because I can get rid of noise but loose too much details to my taste.
Using topaz denoise, or better (I find) DxO stand alone.
I haven't seen that much noise at 6400 on my D850, although I do usually switch to my D750 if I need to use high ISO because it is better than the D850.