LETS TRY TO REMEMBER WHAT THIS FORUM IS ALL ABOUT!

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Great post. I definitely agree. It might've been Steve or another wise photographer who said, (paraphrasing), 90% of the image quality is determined by the person 6" behind the camera. I'm sure I got the quote wrong but you know what I mean.
 
This forum these days seems to be a Z9 forum! Anymore when I see a Z9 thread I just roll my eyes and move on. Because of that I have not read of the messages talked about here. I'd by happy if there was a Z9 forum and all Z9 messages went there so the rest of us could read about other good stuff. Like how to take a photo and not which gear to buy...it's gotten quite boring.
 
This forum these days seems to be a Z9 forum! Anymore when I see a Z9 thread I just roll my eyes and move on. Because of that I have not read of the messages talked about here. I'd by happy if there was a Z9 forum and all Z9 messages went there so the rest of us could read about other good stuff. Like how to take a photo and not which gear to buy...it's gotten quite boring.
You are quite welcome to start you own non-boring good stuff thread. I would gladly read such thread.
 
The beginnings of this forum are founded on a membership who had been following Steve's high quality pedagogical content: his blog posts, videos and above all his Nikon books. (In my case back around 2016 or 2017 as best as I can recall. )

So it's no surprise quite a few members who joined up in 2020 are locked into their Nikon system, warts and all. No apologies due, but I for one steer clear of brands and products I've not handled, for the obvious reasons.

And as we all know well - and appreciate - BCG is grounded in the Wildlife Genres, often with strong emphasis on birds. So much so, a thread too often encounters the belief that all wildlife photography = BIF.

And too often, BIF is invoked as the make or break factor of a camera and/or telephoto as a solution to qualify as a 100% solution for wildlife photography sensu lato.

Latterly the content has expanded as:
1. Mirrorless has matured with the higher tier cameras relaesed in the Canon R and Sony E systems in 2020 into last year etc, notably with the a1;
2. the Z System has also captured much attention over the past year, and the Z9 delivers on promises/hopes;
3. It also obvious the high expectations for a camera not only excite potential buyers, but they bubble over... Many hope that anticipated Product X will solve one's problems, and time and again demands become unrealistic and impatience is evident, and one often hears about the frustrations ;) ;)
 
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But as we hear often, there's no free lunch. The definitive, tell-all, speedy review is an oxymoron.

The commonalities are camera systems are evolving rapidly, in no less than 3 FX Mirrorless brands; the cameras are fairly complex instruments to learn and optimize their myriad settings. Hasty conclusions and statements tend to muddy clarity.
Consider further what's really demanded to polish one's ability at using AF in the wild.... this is besides optimizing Custom settings etc.
Ultimately, no tech is a quick solution, and it's second to fieldcraft and knowledge of the subjects ie knowing the natural history of the biodiversity one strives to portray in images.
 
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haha, I'm not sure what UHH is and from a couple comments here I think I will just leave it that way. :)

There are a lot of friendly and knowledgeable people there, and it isn't Nikon centric the way it is here. Just not moderated for those few that want to get negative.
 
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When I comment or post in this form I always try to keep two things in mind:
- Facts are facts, and should be considered as unbiased data.
- Everything else is subjective, and is therefore relative to a person”s personal point of view, which is not necessarily the same for others. It shall be communicated with respect and without judgment.

it is not always easy, I know, but it is worth it, as this forum serves as a gateway to learning photography, with a focus on wildlife, irrespective of brand, model or personal preference.
 
Lots of good comments here. It's far more important that we have positive discussions than whether or not someone is right or wrong. Normally after two or three comments, members can assess various opinions and draw a conclusion.

I'll add that many of the shortcomings for a given camera are actually related to technique or settings. I'm seeing people taking 40-60 hours in the field or more using an advanced camera to fully understand the settings, the tradeoffs, and how to manage a camera through different scenarios. As recently as this week Matt Granger reported a problem, then came to find out the problem was created by using an Atomos recorder to capture screen video thereby slowing the camera. He posted a retraction and correction - but that's the kind of unexpected issue that can come up when discussing a camera that is new.
 
Thanks for creating this post. There were days recently when I looked at the forum and thought it was for Z9 and A1 users only. I have not spent much time in any of the A/R/Z-1/3/5/9 posts because I don't have a dog in the fight. I have to be happy with what I have and can afford and use it to the best of my abilities. What I have noticed is that when someone creates a post about a problem with technique it seems like the post can be pushed off the first page pretty quickly because every time someone comments on another post it moves to the top of the list.

What I would like to see is an Equipment Discussion forum and maybe a Technique/Help/Problem forum instead of a General Photography forum.
 
I think the individuals that are directly involved in this Sony vs Nikon thing should take a deep breath. Mirrorless or DSLR as well. It’s getting a little ridiculous as Steve pointed out. This forum is about helping and motivating photographers to take better pictures. Most of us choose a camera based on what fits our needs and not based solely on which is better. There are always compromises. Because which is better is a personal opinion based on your needs. So, while this back and forth can be entertaining at times it’s getting a little old. When I see a thread about the Z9 photos , that’s what I want to read about. If I see a thread about the Sony A1, that’s what I expect. Not some back and forth about which is better. Come on people, your better than that. Let’s talk about thing's that improve our skills or helps to solve a problem that one of us is having. It’s not necessary to defend your position that your camera is better than theirs. There are plenty of you-tube videos for that.
Well said Ralph !!!
 
I think the individuals that are directly involved in this Sony vs Nikon thing should take a deep breath. Mirrorless or DSLR as well. It’s getting a little ridiculous as Steve pointed out. This forum is about helping and motivating photographers to take better pictures. Most of us choose a camera based on what fits our needs and not based solely on which is better. There are always compromises. Because which is better is a personal opinion based on your needs. So, while this back and forth can be entertaining at times it’s getting a little old. When I see a thread about the Z9 photos , that’s what I want to read about. If I see a thread about the Sony A1, that’s what I expect. Not some back and forth about which is better. Come on people, your better than that. Let’s talk about thing's that improve our skills or helps to solve a problem that one of us is having. It’s not necessary to defend your position that your camera is better than theirs. There are plenty of you-tube videos for that.
Thanks Ralph, beat me to this by a timezone!

was thinking about this type of post when i got up this morning. It would be good for people to just be humble if they have no personal experience on any topic. If i go to DPR i don't even look at the Fuji topics little alone reply. Unfortunately there's been a decline for some time in the conversations and I've noted a few of the good people that were here at the start are no longer active which is a shame... I admit to not be overly motivated here any longer either.

Shoot, share, learn and most of all enjoy. If you wouldn't say it to a strangers face don't say it at all.
 
It's not what you say you can do with your camera it's what you show you can do with it that counts. Pointing out peoples shortcomings and using that to prove your point is silly and wrong.

Post what you got in the posting forms and make your point there. Until then it's mostly all talk.
 
I see two issues at play:
  1. Comments on existing posts that don't adhere to the forum guidelines <-- well worth a review if you haven't read them recently
  2. New posts that aren't constructive because:
    • they duplicate and therefore detract from an existing discussion already underway,
    • they are written with such vague titles they almost act like click bait, or
    • their titles and content verge on trolling

As @Steve so aptly puts it, in terms we could relate to
....picture yourself in a room with a couple hundred other photographers - if you wouldn't speak out loud to that group what you're about to post, it's probably best not to post it.

The vast majority of users in these forums are people with whom you'd want to have a chat in real life or go on a field trip. However, as is so often the case in online communities, there is a handful of users who don't understand what it means to be congenial, collaborative and allow everyone a chance to voice their questions or viewpoints.

I am optimistic that decorum will return to these forums because of @Steve's leadership and because the community is postitive and values the contributions of all of its members.
 
As much as I agree that at times comparative comments aren't productive (when they turn to better / worse for the sake of superiority as opposed to understanding the differences between systems under different circumstances), there is an even greater risk with silo-thinking and echo-chamber culture, and as a dual system shooter I can say there is way too much of that going on here as well.

That kind of thought process is what gave us 2 years of "the AF system in the Z6/7 holds its own with the best of them for active wildlife shooting" - which is not to say the the AF in those cameras sucks, it works great for a lot uses, it simply isn't on par for that specific kind of use. All of us who shoot across systems knew it, but the echo chamber wouldn't have it.

Arguing, debating, comparing (with the right purpose in mind, it's not a competition, it's a learning journey) is what makes for a vibrant community - or we can get plain vanilla that never questions what would happen if you added some chocolate fudge to it.

Of course civility is a pre-requisite. If we lose civility it really doesn't matter what is being debated because we lose the ability to understand the other viewpoint and experience but way too often we tackle the lapses in civility by eliminating the debate altogether - and that's the wrong answer.
I totally agree with you.
When i I had posted about Z7 ii not being good for action photography many fanboys ( I don't know what else to call them)went bonkers & went to great lengths to say how good It bash s & bash me on the forum .
So there are people on both the sides of the fence & every one need to accept facts as they are & not try to bash others .
We do need debates as long they are civil & that increases our overall knowledge of photography.
I also find it funny when people take objection to a post by a person who has other brands & take no objection when the same brand person posts an adverse comment.
This is hypocrtical & used to happen in forums like NR or SonyRumors.This has started happening here too.
 
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Hi @Venkatesh VT, if I may point out something I learned over the years... I am a multicultural person, born from parents that are of mixed nationalities, I travelled a lot in my life and I spent the most part of my carrier managing multicultural teams spread all over the globe, from Asia to America. One thing I learned the hard way is: different people interpret the same sentence in various ways. Since then I learned to focus more on facts and less on opinions / personal views.

Applying that lesson to this case, such a statement: "Z7 ii not being good for action photography" is very subjective and can easily offend people, even though I am sure that was not your intention. One can say the same thing in more objective way: "the auto Eye AF of the Z7ii is not as sticky or responsive as that of Sony and Canon." That is a fact, that still brings your point across. But saying it is not good for action is way too general and not really true for everyone. I use the Z50 for example, which has a similar if not inferior AF to that of the Z7ii and it works just fine for my action photography. That may not be the case for you, maybe because you do more BIF and I do not.. but you see what I am trying to say?
 
Hi @Venkatesh VT, if I may point out something I learned over the years... I am a multicultural person, born from parents that are of mixed nationalities, I travelled a lot in my life and I spent the most part of my carrier managing multicultural teams spread all over the globe, from Asia to America. One thing I learned the hard way is: different people interpret the same sentence in various ways. Since then I learned to focus more on facts and less on opinions / personal views.

Applying that lesson to this case, such a statement: "Z7 ii not being good for action photography" is very subjective and can easily offend people, even though I am sure that was not your intention. One can say the same thing in more objective way: "the auto Eye AF of the Z7ii is not as sticky or responsive as that of Sony and Canon." That is a fact, that still brings your point across. But saying it is not good for action is way too general and not really true for everyone. I use the Z50 for example, which has a similar if not inferior AF to that of the Z7ii and it works just fine for my action photography. That may not be the case for you, maybe because you do more BIF and I do not.. but you see what I am trying to say?
I don't want to get into arguments on the issue.How ever splitting hairs can never hide the fact that Z 7 ii did not have a good AF compared to even it's predecessors like D 500 / 850 & that's the point I was trying to make . The proof of that is in this forum itself where there are threads where Z 7 ii owners have been repeatedly asking for FW updates to improve is AF
 
Hi @Venkatesh VT, if I may point out something I learned over the years... I am a multicultural person, born from parents that are of mixed nationalities, I travelled a lot in my life and I spent the most part of my carrier managing multicultural teams spread all over the globe, from Asia to America. One thing I learned the hard way is: different people interpret the same sentence in various ways. Since then I learned to focus more on facts and less on opinions / personal views.

Applying that lesson to this case, such a statement: "Z7 ii not being good for action photography" is very subjective and can easily offend people, even though I am sure that was not your intention. One can say the same thing in more objective way: "the auto Eye AF of the Z7ii is not as sticky or responsive as that of Sony and Canon." That is a fact, that still brings your point across. But saying it is not good for action is way too general and not really true for everyone. I use the Z50 for example, which has a similar if not inferior AF to that of the Z7ii and it works just fine for my action photography. That may not be the case for you, maybe because you do more BIF and I do not.. but you see what I am trying to say?
If I may add to this, ownership in a statement is key. "the XX camera or camera attribute does not work for me in xxxxxx scenarios"
 
Hi @Venkatesh VT, if I may point out something I learned over the years... I am a multicultural person, born from parents that are of mixed nationalities, I travelled a lot in my life and I spent the most part of my carrier managing multicultural teams spread all over the globe, from Asia to America. One thing I learned the hard way is: different people interpret the same sentence in various ways. Since then I learned to focus more on facts and less on opinions / personal views.

Applying that lesson to this case, such a statement: "Z7 ii not being good for action photography" is very subjective and can easily offend people, even though I am sure that was not your intention. One can say the same thing in more objective way: "the auto Eye AF of the Z7ii is not as sticky or responsive as that of Sony and Canon." That is a fact, that still brings your point across. But saying it is not good for action is way too general and not really true for everyone. I use the Z50 for example, which has a similar if not inferior AF to that of the Z7ii and it works just fine for my action photography. That may not be the case for you, maybe because you do more BIF and I do not.. but you see what I am trying to say?

Ado - you are SO right here. In the 12 years that I ran a photographic community I learnt that the written word is open to be interpreted in ways that might not have been intended by the writer. Carelessly written statements or colloquialisms may not be received in the same way that the writer intended.

While there are undoubtedly people who make a point of being abrasive, I believe the majority are those who might raise people's hackles without intention and without realising that their comments are inflamatory to some. Equally, some folk are easily offended and maybe could cut others a bit of slack.
 
I don't want to get into arguments on the issue. How ever splitting hairs can never hide the fact that Z 7 ii did not have a good AF compared to even it's predecessors like D 500 / 850 & that's the point I was trying to make . The proof of that is in this forum itself where there are threads where Z 7 ii owners have been repeatedly asking for FW updates to improve is AF

The more specific we can be about subject, context, and our individual experience with a camera, the more helpful a comment becomes. Then it is about a fact observed first hand rather than a generalization of one or two others with unknown experience. There are far too many variables for a blanket statement to represent a large population. I won't debate the point you made as that would sidetrack this discussion, but it does not apply at all to my experience with the camera you referenced. Likewise it would be inappropriate for me to comment about performance of the A1, R3, or other cameras from systems and cameras I don't use or have first hand experience, although I might comment to share my experience working with students in workshops I am teaching who use those cameras.

A professional or experienced amateur will figure out a way to get the shot and have the gear perform successfully even if there is a problem. It may take hours or days to learn the right techniques and figure out what works. Far too often we are getting reports and interpreting them as fact when the user has limited expertise, experience, or learning invested in the gear and subject. A fellow bird photographer told me they had 40-50 hours invested in learning the AF settings and use cases for the Z9 - and had a long way to go. When I get new gear, part of my testing is figuring out how to do the things others said were impossible or very difficult because I'll run into those situations sooner or later.

Some of my most useful learnings in testing gear has been about repeatability of failures. I've stopped using Eye AF when 97% of images were sharp, but I had critical images ahead where I knew I would only get a frame or two with the right eye contact. I've had subjected where animal eye AF works on 100% of the images with four consecutive subjects, and then drops to 0% solely based on color and hair patterns of a fifth subject. I've had to adjust settings to control stickiness and AF speed for specific situations - settings that would be totally inappropriate for general use. Technique is different than using gear at default settings.

Part of the value of this forum and the discussions is we can shortcut learning how to do something, techniques, or settings that might help. One of my favorite Fn button settings for my Nikon Z6 camera was from a Sony user with an earlier Sony mirrorless camera. It opened up several new ways of using the EVF that did not apply to a DSLR.
 
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