Thanks Steve for the Z8 update to your "The Ultimate Nikon Z8 & Z9 Setup & Shooting Guide for Wildlife Photography"

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agrumpyoldsod

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Hi Steve -- Thanks Steve for the Z8 update to your now titled "The Ultimate Nikon Z8 & Z9 Setup & Shooting Guide for Wildlife Photography"

As an owner of the previous Z9 only version this was a free download for me. Lots of NEW to me stuff in it about the Z8

Congratulations -- you also won my side bet on who would get their book out first -- Thom Hogan is still working night and day on his currently 1200 page guide -- he hopes to make it shorted and out later this week.

Out of interest did you have access to a Manual for the Z8 or have to work these out ?....

It is interesting you note the firmware in the Z8 is already 1.05 -- I had expected it to launch with 1.00 -- Nikon is clearly working hard and fast to get planned improvements out. AND can't you state firmware 3.10 for the Z9 rather than 3.01 aren't differences small mainly bug fixes and minor improvements?

When I get my Z8 - I would luv to explore and replicate some of the points in the new section you added on Tone Mode ("just for the Z8 for now") p97 in using HLG -vs- SDR and note your comment "RAW Shooters For RAW shooters, this setting does seem to affect the tone curve of the RAW file - a bit." (and all the associated limitation that come with HLG -vs- JPG). More in the book.

I take it that you tried to set up your Z8 as closely to your Z9 as possible. As you say both appear 95% the same.

The following is my guess on the key differences

Photo Shooting:

-- I would have put the final para on page 90 in BOLD and RED -- don't use backup to the SD slot if you want to use your Z8 for fast long bursts...... technically I understand the way the buffer empties (not fills) is that in back up mode it has to right to both cards simultaneously and then empty the buffer slot allocated to that image before moving on to the next image - hence why it is the write speed of the slowest card that ends up limiting the camera -- but my understanding may be wrong....
-- Image size -- here is hoping that sometime soon we will be able to choose between Large, Medium and Small Full-frame Lossless RAW options (and HE*/HE too)

-- Tone Mode added for the Z8, just applies to JPG/HEIF
-- Subject Detection -- Aviation now added

I am not sure which menu these appear in on the Z8 - I expect it is Photo Shooting:
-- Not wildlife -- Skin softening added, just applies to JPG/HEIF [and vids]
-- Not wildlife -- Portrait Impression Balance mode [ still to understand precisely how this works, working together with Matrix Metering Plus Face Detect and whether it is the same as other models which had it in -- so basically some additional brightness tone and colour/hue balance tools ]

Customs Settings Banks
-- Custom Controls -- a few different buttons
-- Does the Z8 have a mic, is able to record memos and can you assign Audio record to any of the programmable buttons? - the top of the Z8 has a small mic or speaker and there are slits on the sides of the EVF which might be mics?

Settings
-- GPS -- I wonder if theses settings marked as Z9 change for a Z8 when either Snapbridge on a smart phone is paired and lined to a Z8 OR a GPS receiver is plugged in via the 10-pin and active.
-- Battery - presumably something changes when the MB-N12 is attached -- One Nikon rep recently stated that the 2 batteries in the MB-N12 grip "only" equate to 1.8x one EN-EL15C -- there must be losses due to the longer wiring and circuitry if true -- and this support avoiding the grip if possible and just carrying spare batteries. It might be worth exploring Battery Life saving strategies -- mie is always to just turn the camera of when not actually shooting AND to carry spare batteries.
-- Save/load settings - As you state on page 70 -- and CO (Nikon Canada) confirmed -- do not try to load a Z9 settings file into a Z8 - it will not work.

Network
-- Wired LAN (Ethernet) settings are enabled when a suitable ethernet dongle is added and live ethernet cable plugged in.
 
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List of differences added to my earlier post -- we are all still waiting for a downloadable Manual/ref Guide and our own Z8 to play with.
Great Job to Steve to have covered so much so quickly
 
Wow - that's a long list :)

Thanks for the kind words too :)

It is interesting you note the firmware in the Z8 is already 1.05 -- I had expected it to launch with 1.00 -- Nikon is clearly working hard and fast to get planned improvements out. AND can't you state firmware 3.10 for the Z9 rather than 3.01 aren't differences small mainly bug fixes and minor improvements?

Just a typo. I'll fix it in the next update. :) Also, the updates are just for LUTs is far.

When I get my Z8 - I would luv to explore and replicate some of the points in the new section you added on Tone Mode ("just for the Z8 for now") p97 in using HLG -vs- SDR and note your comment "RAW Shooters For RAW shooters, this setting does seem to affect the tone curve of the RAW file - a bit." (and all the associated limitation that come with HLG -vs- JPG). More in the book.

I take it that you tried to set up your Z8 as closely to your Z9 as possible. As you say both appear 95% the same.

The following is my guess on the key differences

Photo Shooting:

-- I would have put the final para on page 90 in BOLD and RED -- don't use backup to the SD slot if you want to use your Z8 for fast long bursts...... technically I understand the way the buffer empties (not fills) is that in back up mode it has to right to both cards simultaneously and then empty the buffer slot allocated to that image before moving on to the next image - hence why it is the write speed of the slowest card that ends up limiting the camera -- but my understanding may be wrong....

LOL, I don't know if it needs to be in red :) , but I see your point. I do go into detail about what happens when you use the SD card. And your understanding of the reasons for the SD slowdown match mine.

-- Image size -- here is hoping that sometime soon we will be able to choose between Large, Medium and Small Full-frame Lossless RAW options (and HE*/HE too)

-- Tone Mode added for the Z8, just applies to JPG/HEIF
-- Subject Detection -- Aviation now added

It's funny, at one point I was going to say that Tone Mode was only for JPEG / HEIF, but I haven't been able to confirm that. Those RAW digger histograms I mention in the book give me pause to say it. Also, as mentioned in the book, I'm still not 100% sure Lightroom is fully supporting HLG - at least not with Z8 files. I'm kinda shocked I can open Z8 files at all in there. I do agree that from an end usage standpoint that - at the moment - it's probably best to think of them as applying to JPEG/HEIF. However, if suddenly Adobe updates their profiles and we can see a difference in the tone curve in the RAW files, I don't want to have come to that conclusion too soon. You know I'm a cautious guy when it comes to stuff like that :) (in addition, I also know there are RAW files using HLG tone curves)

I am not sure which menu these appear in on the Z8 - I expect it is Photo Shooting:
-- Not wildlife -- Skin softening added, just applies to JPG/HEIF [and vids]
-- Not wildlife -- Portrait Impression Balance mode [ still to understand precisely how this works, working together with Matrix Metering Plus Face Detect and whether it is the same as other models which had it in -- so basically some additional brightness tone and colour/hue balance tools ]

Yes, they are in the photo shooting menu. (not wildlife related though so they didn't make the cut :) )


Customs Settings Banks
-- Custom Controls -- a few different buttons
-- Does the Z8 have a mic, is able to record memos and can you assign Audio record to any of the programmable buttons? - the top of the Z8 has a small mic or speaker and there are slits on the sides of the EVF which might be mics?

Unless I overlooked it, there is not a mic for recording voice memos to the images, if that's what you mean. I think (think) that Nikon mentioned that as a difference too.


Settings
-- GPS -- I wonder if theses settings marked as Z9 change for a Z8 when either Snapbridge on a smart phone is paired and lined to a Z8 OR a GPS receiver is plugged in via the 10-pin and active.
-- Battery - presumably something changes when the MB-N12 is attached -- One Nikon rep recently stated that the 2 batteries in the MB-N12 grip "only" equate to 1.8x one EN-EL15C -- there must be losses due to the longer wiring and circuitry if true -- and this support avoiding the grip if possible and just carrying spare batteries. It might be worth exploring Battery Life saving strategies -- mie is always to just turn the camera of when not actually shooting AND to carry spare batteries.
-- Save/load settings - As you state on page 70 -- and CO (Nikon Canada) confirmed -- do not try to load a Z9 settings file into a Z8 - it will not work.

I'm going to explore Snapbridge for GPS once my copy arrives. I tried to get it to connect the my Z8, but no joy. I'll try again down the road. :)

But overall, yes, I think those are the main differences.

(And I can't say if I had a manual or not.)
 
Wow - that's a long list :)

Thanks for the kind words too :)



Just a typo. I'll fix it in the next update. :) Also, the updates are just for LUTs is far.



LOL, I don't know if it needs to be in red :) , but I see your point. I do go into detail about what happens when you use the SD card. And your understanding of the reasons for the SD slowdown match mine.



It's funny, at one point I was going to say that Tone Mode was only for JPEG / HEIF, but I haven't been able to confirm that. Those RAW digger histograms I mention in the book give me pause to say it. Also, as mentioned in the book, I'm still not 100% sure Lightroom is fully supporting HLG - at least not with Z8 files. I'm kinda shocked I can open Z8 files at all in there. I do agree that from an end usage standpoint that - at the moment - it's probably best to think of them as applying to JPEG/HEIF. However, if suddenly Adobe updates their profiles and we can see a difference in the tone curve in the RAW files, I don't want to have come to that conclusion too soon. You know I'm a cautious guy when it comes to stuff like that :) (in addition, I also know there are RAW files using HLG tone curves)



Yes, they are in the photo shooting menu. (not wildlife related though so they didn't make the cut :) )




Unless I overlooked it, there is not a mic for recording voice memos to the images, if that's what you mean. I think (think) that Nikon mentioned that as a difference too.




I'm going to explore Snapbridge for GPS once my copy arrives. I tried to get it to connect the my Z8, but no joy. I'll try again down the road. :)

But overall, yes, I think those are the main differences.

(And I can't say if I had a manual or not.)

Nikon's website lists voice memo as a feature in the tech specs for the Z8. So it'd be a typo if that isn't the case. Aren't the microphones on the Z cameras the holes on either side of the EVF?

 
Nikon's website lists voice memo as a feature in the tech specs for the Z8. So it'd be a typo if that isn't the case. Aren't the microphones on the Z cameras the holes on either side of the EVF?

My bad - it's under the custom settings for playback, I was looking under shooting. Sorry about that. I've been doing Z8 stuff literally from dawn till dusk (and often beyond) since the camera arrived and my brain is a bit fried at the moment.
 
@Steve -- Thanks

wrt to the manual understood -- to mis-quote one of Craig Alanson's characters "If you know what I mean...."

And your continued efforts with nose to the grind stone are greatly appreciated.

I will update and share my Z9 settings spreadsheet to include the Z8 when an official listing of menu items and default value emerges.
 
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I am hoping to pick up the book soon. Does the book cover 3d tracking hand off?

Henry Hudson seems to use Wide Area AF (with eye detect) and then hands it off to 3d tracking via a function button on the lens. He used to use the shutter button for 3D tracking hand-off but I like his more recent approach of using a function button on the lens to do it. Just curious if Steve does this and whether it is covered in the book?
 
I am hoping to pick up the book soon. Does the book cover 3d tracking hand off?

Henry Hudson seems to use Wide Area AF (with eye detect) and then hands it off to 3d tracking via a function button on the lens. He used to use the shutter button for 3D tracking hand-off but I like his more recent approach of using a function button on the lens to do it. Just curious if Steve does this and whether it is covered in the book?
Short answer yes - the longer answer is he compares several alternative AF setups.
I find Steve has many insightful comments on pluses vs minuses for setup options. These cover AF, eg optimal use of multiple AF modes, tacit advice to BBAF shooters, the perils of the Lens Control Ring(s) + much more, including Exposure setups.
And like Steve recommends, I also prefer the Fn1,Fn3 - also Fn2 - as my primary AF "override buttons" [pg 360], but prefer using the AF-area mode+AF On option. As covered previously (threads linked below) time and again, using 1x1 custom Wide AF area is a big help, and it supersedes single-point mode IME

I find his deeper dive explanations, where needed, work well in parallel with the menu tour [eg in the section on Subject Detection And AF Areas].

There's many different ways of customizing Autofocus, and they've also been discussed in some depth in this thread and others:


 
@Steve -- Hi Steve

Now that the on-line version of the Z8 Reference Guide is available -- I have gone through my settings spreadsheet for the Z8 and Z9 and while there are obvious changes to reflect the different buttons.

There are a couple of less obvious changes -- which might be linked to the firmware 1.00 on the Z8 and 3.10 on the Z9.

I am expecting a Firmware update to the Z9 to level it up to the Z8 in that update (when it happens):

-- Custom Settings Z9 d3 Limit release mode selection on the Z9 appears to have been removed in settings for Z8 -- correspondingly all subsequent menu items on the Z8 advance by 1. Searching for this -- No Matches Found -- Not having the camera - it looks like this was deleted

I have uploaded my Settings spreadsheet it can No LONGER be downloaded

Obviously both will be updated as more information and a Z8 gets to me.

NR states "Check for more Z8 documents to be uploaded here and here in the next two days before the official release."
 
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@Andy Miller Photo UK , it is a very good idea to have such a sreadsheet! (y) Because you can try different settings and write the comments. and if something didn't work for you and you forgot the reason you can go back and read your own comments...

I miss of course, Nightscape or Astrophotography, perhaps macro. And Video-settings... :)

I also use special naming fo files but mine is with the letter on the third place = Z9E (like Elena). The problem is that for RAW files it starts writing the number just after the prefix, like Z9E1234 and it is diffucult to read if there is no separation-letter. I had Z30 for z30 file names and I renamed it to Z3E becasue of better reading. I hope, there will not be a camera Z3 in the future 😃 but I can name it with the other letter, of course.

I wonder, how it will look like if "Skin softening" will be applied on a lion portrait? 🦁
No, it is not only LOL 😅 but I applied often Frequency Separation (from software/plugin "Know How to Transfer") on animal-portraits. By particular settings it gave a 3D-effect (separated animal from background) and it provided some kind of a special touch. So, I will definitely test it on animals 😃 and I will test "Portrait Impression Balance" as well.

We must be crative, right? ;) :p
 
@Andy Miller Photo UK , it is a very good idea to have such a sreadsheet! (y) Because you can try different settings and write the comments. and if something didn't work for you and you forgot the reason you can go back and read your own comments...

I miss of course, Nightscape or Astrophotography, perhaps macro. And Video-settings... :)

I also use special naming fo files but mine is with the letter on the third place = Z9E (like Elena). The problem is that for RAW files it starts writing the number just after the prefix, like Z9E1234 and it is diffucult to read if there is no separation-letter. I had Z30 for z30 file names and I renamed it to Z3E becasue of better reading. I hope, there will not be a camera Z3 in the future 😃 but I can name it with the other letter, of course.

I wonder, how it will look like if "Skin softening" will be applied on a lion portrait? 🦁
No, it is not only LOL 😅 but I applied often Frequency Separation (from software/plugin "Know How to Transfer") on animal-portraits. By particular settings it gave a 3D-effect (separated animal from background) and it provided some kind of a special touch. So, I will definitely test it on animals 😃 and I will test "Portrait Impression Balance" as well.

We must be crative, right? ;) :p

Thanks -- do share your set-ups for astro, nightscapes, etc.. -- I find that in the round - I tend to stick with one Custom Bank and One Shooting Bank and the same allocation of roles to buttons. I simply forget what is where. But I know sports and studio shooters who have lots and lots of different settings and they uses the "banks" continuously.

For me -- since I almost exclusively shoot images in Manual Mode and RAW -- 90+% of all setting would remain the same -- yes fps, AF-mode and ISO control. Every now and again I drop into 120fps. But that is very quick.


While I "like to have" files and folders from each camera identifiable - without hunting through EXIF data - when I import my files in to LRC I modify the file names to add Date+Time shot - file name and then a few of the shooting settings. When on a project the project reference has to appear at the beginning -- so the actual file name written by the camera is simply an intermediary step for me.The folder is only important is one passes past 9999 during a shoot.

🦁🦁 -- YES indeed -- BUT -- and bear with me -- some of these tools can help "us" too:

"The Skin Softening and Portrait Impression Balance only works in camera when shooting JPG/HEIF images -- but this also does something in video formats too,but only on the "lowest" codex.
Pictures taken when the face of a human portrait subject is detected will automatically be processed to soften the subject’s complexion.
Skin softening will not be performed if:
  • [N‑RAW 12-bit (NEV)] or [ProRes RAW HQ 12-bit (MOV)] is selected for [Video file type] in the video recording menu, or
  • [N-Log] is chosen for tone mode when [ProRes 422 HQ 10-bit (MOV)] or [H.265 10-bit (MOV)] is selected for [Video file type] in the video recording menu.
Portrait impression balance settings for video recording - adjust hue and brightness settings for skin tones -- not much information has yet emerged in relation to how it works and whether or not one can be applied to NON-humans subjects

If one uses NX Studio - NX studio picks up on these settings and can apply them to imported files .... what it does to RAW files I have no idea.
For now I will not use these tools in camera for still images.

However, the 3rd leg in the in camera tools for portrait folk is Matrix Metering with Face Detection (enabled in b4) - "Choose whether exposure is adjusted for the faces of human portrait subjects detected by the camera when [Matrix metering] is selected.
Option Description
[ON] The camera adjusts exposure for faces.
[OFF] Exposure is not adjusted according to whether faces have been detected."

Clearly this 3rd tool has a role to play in how I shoot - but not so often the what. Family and portraits sure I will give it a go.


NOW what is useful -- are the Skin tools in Capture One (C1) where one can select a colour range and "even" out tones and variations all the way up to wax-model -- I have seen it applied to shots with uneven and distracting grass/backgrounds and yet fur too -- a huge timesaver if one has a distracting background -- but far far too easy to push it too far..

I am NO FAN (massive understatement) of NX studio -- Nikon has just updated it -- but no where near to the level of C1 or LRC/PS and their tools. NOW -- C1 is REALLY lagging LRC/PS's Deep learning (possibly AI, but not really) masking tools which save a vast amount of time.
I and others keep applying pressure on C1 to not just have a tool for folk with retouching labs and lots of time - and this does mean they need to up their masking game - we will see.
 
@Steve -- Hi Steve

Now that the on-line version of the Z8 Reference Guide is available -- I have gone through my settings spreadsheet for the Z8 and Z9 and while there are obvious changes to reflect the different buttons.

There are a couple of less obvious changes -- which might be linked to the firmware 1.00 on the Z8 and 3.10 on the Z9.

I am expecting a Firmware update to the Z9 to level it up to the Z8 in that update (when it happens):

-- Custom Settings Z9 d3 Limit release mode selection on the Z9 appears to have been removed in settings for Z8 -- correspondingly all subsequent menu items on the Z8 advance by 1. Searching for this -- No Matches Found -- Not having the camera - it looks like this was deleted

I have uploaded my Settings spreadsheet it can be downloaded from HERE and this is a PDF

Obviously both will be updated as more information and a Z8 gets to me.

NR states "Check for more Z8 documents to be uploaded here and here in the next two days before the official release."
Nice job on the spreadsheet.....Thanks for sharing!
 
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