D500: Manual mode, auto ISO and exposure compensation

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I have read carefully Steve's eBooks on this subject, but cannot find a reference to shooting in manual mode, auto ISO and using exposure compensation. I frequently apply exposure compensation in aperture priority but not so sure about when shooting in manual mode. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.
 
I think you need to specify your question(s) slightly :)

Despite being in manual mode, the auto ISO will make this an "automatic mode" just as aperture priority. In certain situations, the cameras metering will be fooled and you need to adjust exposure with exposure compensation, just as you would do in aperture priority. In this case, the compensation will only work on the ISO since aperture and speed are locked by you.
 
I think you need to specify your question(s) slightly :)

Despite being in manual mode, the auto ISO will make this an "automatic mode" just as aperture priority. In certain situations, the cameras metering will be fooled and you need to adjust exposure with exposure compensation, just as you would do in aperture priority. In this case, the compensation will only work on the ISO since aperture and speed are locked by you.

Thank you vulpess. Exactly the information I was looking for without being specific. :)
 
This was a good video from the wayback machine.



 
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that's how i shoot almost always.

just don't overthink it.

you set your shutter speed, aperture and the camera sets the ISO.

adding exposure compensation will make the image brighter (by adjusting the ISO) and removing exposure compensation will darken the image.

as an example, i typically shoot dogs around 1/2000s, f2.8. if i have a black dog, i'll add +.7 to +1 exposure compensation. a brilliant white dog, probably -1. you'll get a feel for it based on your subject matter.
 
Any insight is appreciated.
As others have posted Manual Mode/Auto ISO is actually an automated exposure mode and exposure compensation works just fine when operating in that mode. Basically as you dial in positive exposure compensation the ISO will be increased for the same scene and the same lighting relative to zero exposure comp. When you dial in negative exposure comp the ISO will be decreased relative to zero exposure comp for the same scene and same lighting.

If you go a step deeper exposure comp is really just adjusting the exposure metering zero point. IOW, regardless of whether you're shooting in Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority or Manual Exposure with Auto ISO, when you dial in exposure compensation you're changing the exposure meter's reference point (18% reflectivity) which offsets what the camera thinks is proper exposure and then whatever automated exposure mode follows along. So if you tell the camera that the image should be overall brighter (positive exposure comp) any automated exposure mode will adjust the floating variable to make the image that much brighter. In the case of Manual Mode with Auto ISO the floating variable is ISO so when you dial in exposure comp the ISO will move up or down depending on which compensation you dial in relative to no compensation.
 
I frequently used exposure compensation to fine tune exposure when shooting totally manual with auto ISO on both the D5 and D850. No problems. Try it.

Auto ISO will simply assume an "average" exposure (medium grey) is the desired result when in manual mode based on user selected SS and aperture.. However, for me, sometimes it was quicker to adjust exposure compensation than adjusting SS or aperture.... YMMV.................
 
I just prefer to shoot full Manual. Unless the light on the subject is constantly changing then full M guarantees a perfect exposure once dialed in. Doesn't matter how light or dark the subject is, how light or dark the background is and what ratio of the frame the subject/background take up which will affect the meter.

If you shoot M+Auto ISO sure ISO is done automatically but then you have to do EC so still adjusting three variables. I don't see the value in this. But I do see if light is changing on the subject itself then Auto ISO can make things easier but not if light is also changing on background.
 
I have read carefully Steve's eBooks on this subject, but cannot find a reference to shooting in manual mode, auto ISO and using exposure compensation. I frequently apply exposure compensation in aperture priority but not so sure about when shooting in manual mode. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.
It should work the same as when you shoot in Aperture Priority
 
It is my go-to mode for wildlife.

In terms of when and how to use it, I think it is a bit difficult to answer as there are so many different scenarios to consider.

One example would be a bird flying against a bright sky.

The brightness of the sky will tend to fool your meter system and naturally underexpose the picture, so you will use exposure compensation ( adding light in this case) in order not to underexpose. The amount of compensation will depend on various factors including the level of brightness of the sky, the size of the bird in the frame but it is not unusual for me to shoot at +2 or even more. Basic settings are 1/3200 and f4 or f5.6 so wide open with my 300mm f4 or 500mm 5.6.

I agree with Butlerkid when he said it is quicker to adjust EC in many circumstances. It is also true that you may obtain the same results using other modes so it is entirely up to you and the way you are more comfortable to shoot.

Just give it a try.

Marco
 
as an example, i typically shoot dogs around 1/2000s, f2.8. if i have a black dog, i'll add +.7 to +1 exposure compensation. a brilliant white dog, probably -1. you'll get a feel for it based on your subject matter.
That seems backwards for any normal metering mode. Normal metering for a black dog would try to brighten him towards neutral gray, and one would need to reduce the exposure to get the dog looking black again. And normal metering would also try to make a white dog gray, and one would need to increase exposure to get them back to white. The examples I can think of that would follow what you have suggested is if a black dog was photographed against a very bright background that overwhelmed the dog and caused the image to underexpose or a white dog against a very dark background where it might be overexposed. Then you would need to compensate as suggested. At least that was how I was taught to interpret 18% grey card metering.

--Ken
 
That seems backwards for any normal metering mode. Normal metering for a black dog would try to brighten him towards neutral gray, and one would need to reduce the exposure to get the dog looking black again. And normal metering would also try to make a white dog gray, and one would need to increase exposure to get them back to white. The examples I can think of that would follow what you have suggested is if a black dog was photographed against a very bright background that overwhelmed the dog and caused the image to underexpose or a white dog against a very dark background where it might be overexposed. Then you would need to compensate as suggested. At least that was how I was taught to interpret 18% grey card metering.

--Ken

I think you're assuming the metering will meter off the dog. I found that spot metering isn't reliable, especially with action, and I suspect you'll find a lot of us are using a more broad, scene based metering.

But that's a good point, if you were accurately metering for the subject the equation shifts.

It's always hard to identify and articulate all our assumptions.
 
That seems backwards for any normal metering mode. Normal metering for a black dog would try to brighten him towards neutral gray, and one would need to reduce the exposure to get the dog looking black again. And normal metering would also try to make a white dog gray, and one would need to increase exposure to get them back to white. The examples I can think of that would follow what you have suggested is if a black dog was photographed against a very bright background that overwhelmed the dog and caused the image to underexpose or a white dog against a very dark background where it might be overexposed. Then you would need to compensate as suggested. At least that was how I was taught to interpret 18% grey card metering.

--Ken
Depends on how much dog fills the frame and what tone the BG is. This is the challenge trying to advise novices. They're often looking for a one size fits all solution when what's needed is basic understanding of how the camera meters a scene and adjusts exposure. We all need to understand context and respond accordingly. But our human nature is to respond in our own frame of reference.
 
I think you're assuming the metering will meter off the dog. I found that spot metering isn't reliable, especially with action, and I suspect you'll find a lot of us are using a more broad, scene based metering.

But that's a good point, if you were accurately metering for the subject the equation shifts.

It's always hard to identify and articulate all our assumptions.
I was never a fan of Nikon's Matrix metering, although I know they have put a lot of effort into it over the years. I tend to use spot or center-weighted for the most part. I generally know what they are going to do, and I could not say that about Matrix metering with any confidence. But, the takeaway is that we should know what our tools are doing and how to use them in the situations that we encounter (and remember that they are many ways to accomplish things). Not always an easy lesson, but one that pays great dividends.

--Ken
 
Depends on how much dog fills the frame and what tone the BG is. This is the challenge trying to advise novices. They're often looking for a one size fits all solution when what's needed is basic understanding of how the camera meters a scene and adjusts exposure. We all need to understand context and respond accordingly. But our human nature is to respond in our own frame of reference.
Very true. I find that lighting is among the hardest things to teach those starting out.

--Ken
 
It becomes a bit complicated by the metering mode. I believe the matrix/evaluative metering will weigh toward a confirmed focus point, and also it is using the algorithm based on a database of images, so it is trying to recognize and adjust for backlighting and other common background/subject scenarios.

The other issue is that when in continuous/servo mode the auto exposure isn't set until the moment the shot is taken, or with bbf the moment the back button is released, so whatever is around the point of confirmed focus at that moment affects the metered exposure.

The only reliable thing I try to 'place' is the brightest non specular part of the scene that is important to me. That I will place (if i have time to think) 2/3 stop above the highest non-blinkie exposure. Then the black dog can be pulled left if it is not black enough.
 
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That seems backwards for any normal metering mode. Normal metering for a black dog would try to brighten him towards neutral gray, and one would need to reduce the exposure to get the dog looking black again. And normal metering would also try to make a white dog gray, and one would need to increase exposure to get them back to white. The examples I can think of that would follow what you have suggested is if a black dog was photographed against a very bright background that overwhelmed the dog and caused the image to underexpose or a white dog against a very dark background where it might be overexposed. Then you would need to compensate as suggested. At least that was how I was taught to interpret 18% grey card metering.

--Ken

Really depends on the metering mode being used, the size of the subject in the frame and overall scene brightness
 
I was never a fan of Nikon's Matrix metering, although I know they have put a lot of effort into it over the years. I tend to use spot or center-weighted for the most part. I generally know what they are going to do, and I could not say that about Matrix metering with any confidence. But, the takeaway is that we should know what our tools are doing and how to use them in the situations that we encounter (and remember that they are many ways to accomplish things). Not always an easy lesson, but one that pays great dividends.

--Ken

I agree.
I've never tried matrix metering nor spot to be honest. I set it to center weighted (and the smallest center weighted option), and just left it there and learned how the camera like to expose certain situations.
 
I have read carefully Steve's eBooks on this subject, but cannot find a reference to shooting in manual mode, auto ISO and using exposure compensation. I frequently apply exposure compensation in aperture priority but not so sure about when shooting in manual mode. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.

When you are in manuel mode there is nothing the camera can control to give you exposure compensation. My suggestion is to shoot manuel completely and control the exposure yourself. I normally shoot manuel with auto ISO. I limit ISO to 1500 sometimes I shoot full manuel when needed.
 
That seems backwards for any normal metering mode. Normal metering for a black dog would try to brighten him towards neutral gray, and one would need to reduce the exposure to get the dog looking black again. And normal metering would also try to make a white dog gray, and one would need to increase exposure to get them back to white. The examples I can think of that would follow what you have suggested is if a black dog was photographed against a very bright background that overwhelmed the dog and caused the image to underexpose or a white dog against a very dark background where it might be overexposed. Then you would need to compensate as suggested. At least that was how I was taught to interpret 18% grey card metering.

--Ken
I think his issue may be trying to shoot a bird against a bright sky. The camera exposes for the sky and the bird comes out underexposed. If I can I will spot meter on the bird but most of the time for me anyway I'm not good enough to keep the spot dead on the bird. So I just shoot in full manuel and overexpose the sky. Being familiar with your camera is the key to know how much to over or under expose in most situations. I normally shoot manual with auto ISO. Most times for me that works well except for small bird sky shoots and evening shoots. In my opinion learning your camera is the best solution. I shoot a d500 and changing settings is super fast and easy. I think my beginning was what made me this way. I honestly have never learned to use exposure compensation expertly. In exchange I learned how to understand my meter and what happens at a stop or less or more and just set my meter where I need it. I bypassed the always center the meter. Personally I feel that learning the meter and how the pic looks under or over exposed according to the meter helps immensely. If you learn to use exposure compensation you still have to know how the pic looks so it really doesn't matter what the meter looks like. Exposure compensation just centers the meter basically and then over or under exposes according to how much you decide. I bypass all that and just over or under expose with the meter.
 
When you are in manuel mode there is nothing the camera can control to give you exposure compensation...
We have to be careful with terminology. Many people say "manual mode" meaning shutter and aperture in manual but still in auto ISO. In which case EC does indeed work.
...Being familiar with your camera is the key to know how much to over or under expose in most situations...
And that's the key isn't it. Regardless of whether one uses EC or goes full manual(including ISO) we still need to understand how the camera's meter sees the world. Either that or go old school and ignore the meter all together and just shoot intuitively :oops: Or new school and ignore the meter in favor of histogram/blinkies :unsure:
 
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