Exposure advice please

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Cyprio42

Cyprio42

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Hi
something I'm struggling with. I've found a few Red Kites to photograph and they are within range of my Z9 & 500mm PF. However I can only shoot midday and
I'm not sure the best way to meter for them. I realise I'm shooting in the worst part of the day, but that's the only time I have. Any advice appreciated, thanks
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another thing you might try is using spot rather than matrix metering. In your image, the meter is tending to underexpose the part of the frame you want to see because of the brighter sky behind. My default is spot but my fn1 button is set to spot meter….for this reason, except in reverse as I’m normally in darker woodland.

 
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Patrick M said:
another thing you might try is using spot rather than matrix metering. In your image, the meter is tending to underexpose the part of the frame you want to see because of the brighter sky behind. My default is spot but my fn1 button is set to spot meter….for this reason, except in reverse as I’m normally in darker woodland.

Click to expand...
Thanks for posting the video by Steve. I thought I had seen them all but I missed that one.
 
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Shutterbug,
I second the Steve video and the suggestion from Rodamu. Here's a fact though, you can expose for the sky or the bird. Exposing for the bird blows out the sky and exposing for the sky makes the bird a silhouette. All depends on the look you're going for. Personally, I expose for the bird and blow out the sky when I want the bird to be king in the photo. In the photo you showed above, I'd say you're looking at +3 to +4 exposure compensation (if you're using one of the automated modes or manual plus auto ISO). If full manual, then you need to over expose by about 3-5 stops because the bright background is confusing your meter.

As Patrick mentioned spot metering helps but trying to keep that on a moving bird has eluded me most of the time.
 
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jeffnles1 said:
Shutterbug,
I second the Steve video and the suggestion from Rodamu. Here's a fact though, you can expose for the sky or the bird. Exposing for the bird blows out the sky and exposing for the sky makes the bird a silhouette. All depends on the look you're going for. Personally, I expose for the bird and blow out the sky when I want the bird to be king in the photo. In the photo you showed above, I'd say you're looking at +3 to +4 exposure compensation (if you're using one of the automated modes or manual plus auto ISO). If full manual, then you need to over expose by about 3-5 stops because the bright background is confusing your meter.

As Patrick mentioned spot metering helps but trying to keep that on a moving bird has eluded me most of the time.
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You beat me to it. I was typing as you posted. The other thing to keep in mind is how much of the sky may be recoverable in post processing if it is not completely blown out. But still, I would rather have a good bird shot with a blown out sky than trying to recover details from the shadows where things can get noisy.

--Ken
 
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jeffnles1 said:
Shutterbug,
I second the Steve video and the suggestion from Rodamu. Here's a fact though, you can expose for the sky or the bird. Exposing for the bird blows out the sky and exposing for the sky makes the bird a silhouette. All depends on the look you're going for. Personally, I expose for the bird and blow out the sky when I want the bird to be king in the photo. In the photo you showed above, I'd say you're looking at +3 to +4 exposure compensation (if you're using one of the automated modes or manual plus auto ISO). If full manual, then you need to over expose by about 3-5 stops because the bright background is confusing your meter.

As Patrick mentioned spot metering helps but trying to keep that on a moving bird has eluded me most of the time.
Click to expand...
I agree with your added comments. If the subject is what one hoped it would be, cropping out as much sky also helps when the sky is close to being blown out.
 
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As has been said dial in 2 or 3 stops os positive exposure compensation or use full manual mode (auto ISO will not be your friend here) then set the exposure for the amount of light on the subject.

Try to find a viewpoint where you can shoot more sideways with the Sun behind you and you are shooting away from the Sun, not up towards the sky. That is early/late in the day. I'm fortunate in that my house has the Sun at the front of the house in the afternoon late in the day or in Winter and it lights birds that sit on the shrubs at the back of my garden AND any BIF over the quarry behind my back garden. From my back bedroom window I can shoot birds almost horizontally against the sky and in sunny conditions don't need any exposure comp or use of manual mode.
 
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What exposure mode are you using? Auto ISO?

The camera is trying to make the scene "neutral gray" - the color of the sky behind your subject. But as soon as it flies below tree level, it will try to make it brighter to expose for the darker background and make that neutral. The exposure compensation settings will help as long as the composition and background is the same brightness, so if you only photograph against a sky it may work.

The best approach will likely be to expose for your subject and lock in the exposure settings in Manual mode with a fixed ISO. The light on your subject is not changing so the exposure should be stable regardless of background. You will need to make decisions depending on how you want to expose the underside of the subject since it is in full shadow at midday.

This kind of subject does well with a fill flash. You'll likely need a flash extender of some sort - Better Beamer, MagMod Wildlife kit, etc.

Don't forget about your Picture Control choice. A Neutral or Flat Picture Control will usually produce less contrast and is easier to adjust in post processing. You want to avoid a setting that adds contrast and makes shadows deeper.
 
I don't have an easy answer for you. I think all of the above is good advice. Maybe more some general observations.

Try to cultivate an awareness of where the sun is, how it is illuminating your subject, and how it might be blocked or filtered by trees, clouds, etc. The light falling on the part of the subject you are shooting might not be direct but only be (as in this case) the weaker light bouncing from the ground/sky etc. In other words the bird is in its own shadow.

Then look up how your meter works in the different metering modes and whether the camera gives greater weight to the area near the focusing point and whether it adapts for backlit situations.

Use the blinkies and take some test shots to see how high you can go with exposure compensation before important details are lost.

Also learn how your camera locks exposure in auto modes and set up a button for that, or just shoot full manual, so once you nail it you can hold the exposure until the light on the subject changes.
 
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realspeed said:
have to tried holding down the button half way and pointing towards a dark area first to get the exposure. keeping the button half pressed then try the bird shot by pressing button fully down. Saves messing about with camera settings
Click to expand...

Now in af-c mode doesn't the metering keep changing until you take the shot? While that trick would work in af-s mode? I don't shoot Nikon so just asking. I agree metering something else of similar brightness but without the sky and then locking exposure should help.
 
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EricBowles said:
What exposure mode are you using? Auto ISO?

The camera is trying to make the scene "neutral gray" - the color of the sky behind your subject. But as soon as it flies below tree level, it will try to make it brighter to expose for the darker background and make that neutral. The exposure compensation settings will help as long as the composition and background is the same brightness, so if you only photograph against a sky it may work.

The best approach will likely be to expose for your subject and lock in the exposure settings in Manual mode with a fixed ISO. The light on your subject is not changing so the exposure should be stable regardless of background. You will need to make decisions depending on how you want to expose the underside of the subject since it is in full shadow at midday.

This kind of subject does well with a fill flash. You'll likely need a flash extender of some sort - Better Beamer, MagMod Wildlife kit, etc.

Don't forget about your Picture Control choice. A Neutral or Flat Picture Control will usually produce less contrast and is easier to adjust in post processing. You want to avoid a setting that adds contrast and makes shadows deeper.
Click to expand...

I did not see that he said he shot in JPEG mode. Isn't Picture Control in Nikon only for JPEG? So, yes, it will affect what you see on the back of the camera but it will not affect a RAW file. Or, am I mistaken on this?
 
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EricBowles said:
Don't forget about your Picture Control choice. A Neutral or Flat Picture Control will usually produce less contrast and is easier to adjust in post processing. You want to avoid a setting that adds contrast and makes shadows deeper.
Click to expand...
Hi Eric

I thought this only effected the embeded jpg, not the raw image.
 
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Cyprio42 said:
Hi
something I'm struggling with. I've found a few Red Kites to photograph and they are within range of my Z9 & 500mm PF. However I can only shoot midday and
I'm not sure the best way to meter for them. I realise I'm shooting in the worst part of the day, but that's the only time I have. Any advice appreciated, thanks
View attachment 41685
Click to expand...
When I shoot scenes like this, I first meter areas that have the same light as the BIF. Perhaps the shady side of a tree, etc and set the exposure in manual mode. Then when I photograph the BIF the bird will be properly exposed or close to properly exposed and the sky will be overexposed. Unless the sky is totally blown out, I can generally recover enough of it to make the image work.
 
Shutterbug fan 1 said:
Don't use AFS. It doesn't track.
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I did not suggest shooting af-s. I was replying to the previous poster who was saying you could meter for another part of the scene to set the exposure and then move the camera to hold the exposure. I said I thought that (exposure holding) would only work in af-s mode or by engaging exposure lock or shooting full manual.
 
Viathelens said:
I did not see that he said he shot in JPEG mode. Isn't Picture Control in Nikon only for JPEG? So, yes, it will affect what you see on the back of the camera but it will not affect a RAW file. Or, am I mistaken on this?
Click to expand...

I think you are correct. Though as an aside I believe the picture control choice also impacts the blinkies and the histogram even if shooting raw, so one might get blinkies sooner if a contrasty setting is used.
 
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bleirer said:
I did not suggest shooting af-s. I was replying to the previous poster who was saying you could meter for another part of the scene to set the exposure and then move the camera to hold the exposure. I said I thought that (exposure holding) would only work in af-s mode or by engaging exposure lock or shooting full manual.
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I agree you didn't suggest it but you asked the question about the technique and stated you did not shoot Nikon. Many aren't aware what AFS does so I hoped to clarify. Your suggestion about technique was right on when using AFS for its intended purpose.
 
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RichF said:
Hi Eric

I thought this only effected the embeded jpg, not the raw image.
Click to expand...
Depending on your settings, it also affects the embedded profile you are using in Lightroom or Nikon products. The histogram and the views on the EVF or LCD also use that picture control.
 
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EricBowles said:
Depending on your settings, it also affects the embedded profile you are using in Lightroom or Nikon products. The histogram and the views on the EVF or LCD also use that picture control.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am aware of all that, which is why I leave my settings at neutral. I think the fact that what one sees on the back reflects only a JPEG makes it very important for RAW shooters to clearly know what their camera's dynamic ranges is and that the JPEG histogram on the back does not correctly reflect a RAW exposure. If shooting in JPEG then the photographer does need to take care when viewing the camera histogram as it does reflect the correct exposure. In any case, an exposure like the one shown is difficult and something will not be exposed correctly so then the question is what is the subject and what does one want to expose correctly.
 
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Cyprio42 said:
Hi
something I'm struggling with. I've found a few Red Kites to photograph and they are within range of my Z9 & 500mm PF. However I can only shoot midday and
I'm not sure the best way to meter for them. I realise I'm shooting in the worst part of the day, but that's the only time I have. Any advice appreciated, thanks
View attachment 41685
Click to expand...
You may need to either spot meter the underside of the bird or compensate by a couple of stops.
You may even be able to bring up the shadows in photoshop or lightroom..🦘
 
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