500PF and WH-200

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78Staff

78Staff

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I was posting musings on this in another thread in the tips section and realized I was going off topic in that thread, so thought I would start a new thread.

Have been testing setup on a cheaper gimbel with the 500PF and a D850 and D500, and am finding balancing it can be tricky. With a Gripped D850, you essentially have to slide to foot (RRS) all the way forward against the safety stop. Removing the grip helps, but you lose a few FPS that way. Alternatively, an ungripped D500 does seem to balance decently as well.

I'm testing on a budget pano gimbal, and have been trying to decide which "real" gimbal to purchase. I was looking at the WH-200 but am wondering if the lightness and off balance of this setup (which is my heaviest lens since getting rid of my 200-500) will cause problems on the WH-200. I've searched back and found a few posts similar mentioning tricky balancing and using longer foot, etc, just not sure if wasting money on the WH-200 for this type of setup. Note, will also be using flash bracket (also Wimberley) and flash most of the time, which will add some balance to the front end helping I would think.

Would be used on a 3-series (FLM, actually) size tripod, if that matters any. Just not sure if I should look at lighter option like Jobu or Benro/Suriu CF, etc
 
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78Staff said:
I was looking at the WH-200 but am wondering if the lightness and off balance of this setup (which is my heaviest lens since getting rid of my 200-500) will cause problems on the WH-200.
Click to expand...
You'll have the same basic issues with fore aft balance on the WH-200 as you have on your current gimbal. The WH-200 does add a panning only friction adjustment control via an Allen wrench but that doesn't change the amount of friction when tilting the gimbal and your gripped D850 plus 500mm PF is a hard setup to balance.

Personally for that setup I'd consider something like the Flexshooter Mini which is more than enough for that rig but has a bit more friction in the tilt direction as well as the pan which could be an advantage for the rig you're running.

FWIW, I was an original Wimberley gimbal user for over a decade, then ran the WH-200 for about six years but switched to a Flexshooter Pro (for my 600mm f/4 and 200-400mm f/4, it's a bit stiff for the 500mm PF) this spring and after a few months sold my WH-200 as I found I was just as happy with the Flexshooter which gives a very similar pan and tilt action with hands free balance and also makes the camera and big lenses easier to carry as they just settle in between my shoulders much like a monopod with the Wimberley mono gimbal attached.
 
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I bought a Wimberley P-20 plate and attached it to the Nikon foot of the 500mm PF lens to get the balance point needed. The plate is less than 4 inches long but I offset it enough to have a longer base when attached to the gimbal.
 
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I agree with Dave about the Flexshooter being a better option. I’m using the pro version with a gripped D500 and the 500PF with no problems.
 
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I'll research the Flexshooter, I don't know too much about it. Was looking at the gimbals as an upgrade over my franken-gimbal setup of bh-55/nodal slide/pc-lr - not just the Wimberley but some of the other popular but slightly lower price models as well ie Benro, Suriu, Jobu, etc. The 500PF is largest glass I have now but I'm not ruling out something larger down the road in F4 primes...
 
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IainD said:
The Hejnar replacement foot for the 500PF is longer than the RRS foot, extending back further, and I found it allows better balancing of the 500 PF D850 combination.
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Iain,
Is this the Hejnar foot you are referring to?

www.hejnarphotostore.com

Low Profile foot for Nikon 500mm f/5.6E PF ED VR

Nikon 500mm/5.6E FL ED VR lens low profile foot replacement for Arca Swiss Markins Really Right Stuff compatible
www.hejnarphotostore.com
 
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Jamie Baker said:
The Wimberley is way overkill for that small a lens in my opinion. I’d look for something small, lighter and less expensive. I use my Wimberley only for my 600 f/4. I’ve said it many times on several other threads, but I honestly took the foot off my 500 PF on day one and haven’t seen it since. This lens was made to handhold.
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The only thing I use that foot for is my black rapid strap.
 
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Properly balancing a 500PF and flash bracket on a WH200 is going to be a nightmare if it's even possible. Don't bother with the WH200, you'll need to do something else. *All that said, I own everything you're talking about. If I get the time, I'll try it and report back to you.
 
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Thanks yes I am looking at other options, ie lighter use gimbal akin to pano gimbal type setups or maybe the smaller surui or jobu jr, and the flexshooter previously mentioned as well (although I'm not sure how to incorporate a flash bracket to it). TBH the pano gimbal I have now works, and will accept my Wimberley Flash mount (mounts to arca swiss upright), but it's a cheap knock of I picked up for next to nothing to do some testing - I do want to move into something nicer.
 
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78Staff said:
Iain,
Is this the Hejnar foot you are referring to?

www.hejnarphotostore.com

Low Profile foot for Nikon 500mm f/5.6E PF ED VR

Nikon 500mm/5.6E FL ED VR lens low profile foot replacement for Arca Swiss Markins Really Right Stuff compatible
www.hejnarphotostore.com
Click to expand...
Yes I think so. The same foot fits the newer 70-200 E lens but the 500 version is longer towards the camera mount. It balances with my Wimberley while the shorter on does not. I already have the Wimberley so I am keen not to replace it. The 500pf is too light! I never imagined a lens would ever be too light. Kris Hejnar is nice and replies to enquiries. Also the feet and brackets are much cheaper than RRS or Kirk. I have gone off RRS a bit for reasons I won’t discuss here. I use lots of Kirk products but the Hejnar bolts directly in to the lens without a knob to worry about.
 
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78Staff said:
I
Have been testing setup on a cheaper gimbel with the 500PF and a D850 and D500, and am finding balancing it can be tricky. With a Gripped D850, you essentially have to slide to foot (RRS) all the way forward against the safety stop. Removing the grip helps, but you lose a few FPS that way. Alternatively, an ungripped D500 does seem to balance decently as well.
Click to expand...

I've tested my gripped D500 and 500 PF on my $160. Manfrotto MVH500AH fluid head. The 500 PF has an Hejnar foot and the head has an Haoge 64mm screw-clamp Acra-Swiss adapter on the sliding Manfrotto quick-release plate. The gripped D500 and 500 PF balances easily and quickly by sliding forward/back either/both the quick-release plate and/or the the lens foot in the A-S clamp before tightening them. Balance point is not against stops.

With minimum fluid dampening the rig stays balanced/level hands-off as shown below. Hands-off tilt forward/back is slow and adjustable with the fluid damping adjustment knob to almost nil. No ball-head flopping. Range of rig/head tilt from level is +90 deg (down to ground) forward and approx -70 deg backwards (skyward). Head has panning release/lock knob as well. Head weight 2# with panning arm which is easily removed for less weight & bulk and load rating of 17#.

A cost effective alternative to more costly gimbals and Flexshooter heads.


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Jamie Baker said:
The Wimberley is way overkill for that small a lens in my opinion. I’d look for something small, lighter and less expensive. I use my Wimberley only for my 600 f/4. I’ve said it many times on several other threads, but I honestly took the foot off my 500 PF on day one and haven’t seen it since. This lens was made to handhold.
Click to expand...

I do expect to handhold the combo at times, but I also do long sits for wildlife ie in blind etc so need a supported solution as well.

So if looking at smaller/lighter gimbal, but having been focused on the WH-200 what are some quality options, ie not offbrand junk. I've been looking at the Sirui PH-10, the Benro BH-20 and GH5C, and the Jobu Jr. I see a lot of recommendations for the Jobu but I don't like that the cradle upright is not arca-swiss, so can't attach flash bracket or the RRS cradle. The Benro's I see recommendations both good and bad, so maybe they have QC problems... Matt Craven seemed pretty high on the CH5C carbon fiber one in his comparison vid though. The PH-10 seems like a nice smaller/lighter reasonable cost option but I can't really find much info or reviews.


EDIT - well after some more research, it appears to really boil down to three that are universally recommended it seems - the WH-200, Katana Jr, and Jobu Jr. Of the three, I suspect the Jobu Jr is the most appropriate for my light 500PF setup - just annoys me that I can't use arca swiss on the upright of the cradle. I can switch to a lens foot/plate mounted flash bracket I suppose, but it definitely rules out the RRS Cradle Clamp. :(.

The next group down would be the Sirui line I guess - mostly positive reviews with only a few complaints mainly about knobs and lack of friction, ie it's either locked or free, no way to induce a bit of drag.

On step below (half step maybe) would be Benro and Induro. Some good reviews, but also a decent amount of bad reviews as well, so hit or miss on those brands it seems.

I guess I am looking at the Jobu then, and will suffer without a lever clamp option, and buy a new flash bracket. Honestly I still kinda want to buy the Wimberly, but if it's going to work against me panning and motion wise due tot the lighter weight I guess it's not the prudent choice.

There is also the Jobu MK4, heavier rated than the Jr which does have the ArcaSwiss upright, but I am assuming it would present the same problems as the WH-200 and Katana, ie "too much" for the 500PF.
 
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I would take a serious look at Leofoto for quality equipment at a bit of a shallower price point.

As far as getting a ’light setup’ to accommodate your 500PF, one downside would be if you ever go to a larger, 500 or 600 f/4, you may find yourself changing gimbals again.

Just something else to consider…

Cheers,

George
 
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Thanks, but tbh Leofoto has always rubbed me the wrong way a bit. They may make fine gear, but the fact that they basically carbon copy existing designs, notably RRS and now ProMediaGear, has always bothered me. Just not a company where I want to spend money. Not knocking anyone who does, but I prefer not to support them.

I tend to agree on the "Down the road" thought process... as I mentioned, I kinda want to go ahead and just pick up the Wimberley, or maybe the Katana Jr if I find a nice used one. Overkill for the 500PF of course, but as long as still usable and keeping the option for heavier glass down the road makes sense to me.
 
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So far I’ve only shot my 500PF hand held. I did replace the Nikon foot with a Wimberley foot. Since I do use the WH200 I’m sure that it’s a matter of time time that I’ll encounter the balance issue. My thought was to a weight to the lens hood, maybe wrap the hood with lead free solder and then wrap with black gaffers tape. Haven’t tried, but no desire to replace the WH200 since it handles my 600 F4.
 
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Hi! I have the same gear as you mention and have posted several times on the difficulty of balancing a gripped D850 also with a 1.4 TC and L-bracket and 500 pf lens on a Flexshooter ballhead. I was really annoyed when a replacement 500pf foot from RRS also would not balance, so I purchased a really long plate. I have just jumped on the iPhone and shot a few images. They show where the long lens balances on my tripod and monopod (Manfrotto 685B with Jobu Jr head with arm removed). Also versatility of shooting with shorter lenses for panoramas or lightning for inside a car with Plutto Trigger, and how a Magpul strap can be split for easy carrying of long lens in the bush. The strap can also attach to single point on either arm of the L-bracket depending if your shot is portrait or landscape. I used my macro rail as a nodal slide on top of a panning clamp to avoid parallax in shooting panoramas. I have tried bird photography, macro, landscape, seascape, nightscape and built up this gear to cater for all. Just some ideas depending on where you want to go in future.

My back-heavy rig balance on tripod.
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With shorter lens in portrait.
IMG_0973.JPG
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Using my macro rail and Panning Clamp as a nodal slide for panoramas.
Wide angle on Macro Rail_0747 copy.jpg
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In the safety of my car for shooting lighting with the Plutto Trigger.
IMG_0971.JPG
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Magpul Strap can be split for easy carrying in bush. Can be quickly attached to either part of L-bracket for vertical or horizontal shooting.
IMG_0976.JPG
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I have run out of space to show you the long lens on the Monopod gear mentioned above. Steve has a great video showing a long lens on a similar monopod head.
Cheers! Neil
 
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Hey thanks for the pics, Yep I think a longer plate is going to be a must regardless of which head I wind up with. I was looking at the MPR-1 but it's out of stock everywhere, so might pick up a P-40 or P-50.
 
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78Staff said:
I was posting musings on this in another thread in the tips section and realized I was going off topic in that thread, so thought I would start a new thread.

Have been testing setup on a cheaper gimbel with the 500PF and a D850 and D500, and am finding balancing it can be tricky. With a Gripped D850, you essentially have to slide to foot (RRS) all the way forward against the safety stop. Removing the grip helps, but you lose a few FPS that way. Alternatively, an ungripped D500 does seem to balance decently as well.

I'm testing on a budget pano gimbal, and have been trying to decide which "real" gimbal to purchase. I was looking at the WH-200 but am wondering if the lightness and off balance of this setup (which is my heaviest lens since getting rid of my 200-500) will cause problems on the WH-200. I've searched back and found a few posts similar mentioning tricky balancing and using longer foot, etc, just not sure if wasting money on the WH-200 for this type of setup. Note, will also be using flash bracket (also Wimberley) and flash most of the time, which will add some balance to the front end helping I would think.

Would be used on a 3-series (FLM, actually) size tripod, if that matters any. Just not sure if I should look at lighter option like Jobu or Benro/Suriu CF, etc
Click to expand...
I did not know you could use the words cheat and Nikon in the same sentence and make any sense.
 
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