600mm AF-S II or 500mm PF on Nikon Z9 ?

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nicoTHX

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Hi gang - would like to get your views on two options to go along a Nikon Z9. Use case is Safaris in Africa so a variety of subjects.
Note that I already have a 200-400 F/4 to go along with this.

- 600mm AF-S II - there are some cheap ones available on ebay - around $4K.
Reading through some comments, it seems like it would get good AF through the FTZ adapter and would a get second life by now getting VR with inbody stabilisation ?
Anyone with experience of these old AF-S glass on the Z9 ?

Pro: quality glass and reach, ability to put a TC for extra reach. Con: heavy, harder to resale, questionable AF, might get end of life for repair soonish

OR

- 500mm PF - a bit more affordable, more recent, I assume better AF and much lighter, easier to resale. Con is that’s a tad shorter and only 5.6 so reach could be a problem. I could always crop I guess…

Thoughts?
 
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I'm having the same "dilema" and although whatever I end up buying will be my first big prime, I ended up thinking buying an old one is relatively safe and it's getting exceptional glass on the cheap, while waiting for more native Z options to come out. If you or I can buy a long prime for 4k TODAY, I'm sure they can be resold later if we're willing to take a hit on the value (I am ok to resell it for half its price in a year or two, or even less if that's necessary).
I didn't even consider the 500 PF because it would be a shame imo to not wait for something similar in Z mount flavor at that price.
 
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Since no one has a Z9 yet, the only relevant experience would be with the older lens on a Z6IIor Z7II. If it worked with those bodies it should work with the Z9 when it's released. The Z's seem to handle AF better when it comes to using TC's and larger f-numbers. Put a 1.4 tc on the 500 pf (makes it an f8) and you have more reach than the 600 in a newer lens and smaller package.
 
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Since you already have the 200-400 and if you're willing to haul the weight I'd go with the longer glass. You can never have too much lens. Used prices on the older lens are not likely to fall nearly as far/fast as newer. Although the 500PF is fairly unique and likely to hold value pretty well.
 
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The 600mm AF-S is big and heavy to use and also big to travel with via air. Also, I’d check to be sure the AF can still be serviced, if and when needed. The 500mm PF is trivial to travel with by comparison.
 
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I agree with the above comments. The problem I have is that I have been using a 500f4 G lens for years. I added a 500pf about 18 months ago, with the intention of only carrying one of them, that has not quite worked out! I travel quite a good deal through Africa and also places such as the arctic and Yellowstone. I will be in Yellowstone next month, which is a good example of my dilemma. I now find I am carrying the 500f4, with a 1.4 converter permanent fixed. (This could easily be a 600f4 and I agree you cannot have too much reach.) However, I am also carrying the 500pf with me wherever I go. The bottom line is I just take way more shots with the pf, as it is so easy to use. Like many, I am waiting on delivery of the Z9 but do not expect my lens choices to change. (Until we get a Z pf🤞) I still love the big primes but would not give up the 500 & 300 pf.
 
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Personally, if I were in your situation, I would not buy the G version. The weight of that 600 is a serious drawback when compared to newer models. If anything, I would go with the 500 pf for now. I believe the 500 pf with the 1.4 might work worlds better on the Z9 than it does currently on other cameras due to the Z9 AF. in addition, you may find in a year's time when a Z version is announced that the 600 E has dropped down even further. Also, if the upcoming 800 is a 5.6 PF then forget about the F4 primes and run around with a 500PF and 800 PF. Oh man, what a dream combo! I just think you may regret the weight of the G.
 
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There are few if any Z9 and FTZ II in the wild. Any analysis is conjecture at best. The Z9 is completely different from the other Nikon mirrorless, I would not dare to extrapolate.
 
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Darwin said:
Personally, if I were in your situation, I would not buy the G version. The weight of that 600 is a serious drawback when compared to newer models. If anything, I would go with the 500 pf for now. I believe the 500 pf with the 1.4 might work worlds better on the Z9 than it does currently on other cameras due to the Z9 AF. in addition, you may find in a year's time when a Z version is announced that the 600 E has dropped down even further. Also, if the upcoming 800 is a 5.6 PF then forget about the F4 primes and run around with a 500PF and 800 PF. Oh man, what a dream combo! I just think you may regret the weight of the G.
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Darn, I didn't notice that 800 PF prime on the roadmap!
 
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grossidm said:
If there's an 800PF, I doubt it'll be a f/5.6. Probably an f/8. An 800 f/5.6PF would be some sort of miracle lens.
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If the roadmap image with silouhettes can be trusted for sizes, it looks like the front element has a similar size to the 400/2.8 which would indicate it's f5.6.
But that'd mean it's here to replace the 800/5.6E which was crazy expensive, so even with the saving made on glass and materials I guess it's still going to be expensive.
 
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grossidm said:
@nicoTHX If it were me I'd go for the 500PF and save for a native Z 600 or 800.
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This is my thinking; almost certainly going to grab the 500 pf when I pick up my Z9 and then wait for a long prime Z lens. I currently have the 180-400 f4. I just passed up (likely foolishly) a refurbished 800mm from Nikon Canada; luckily someone had bought it when I went back to consider it (or the wait) again :)
 
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I have the Nikon AF-S Nikkor 600mm f/4G ED VR. I plan on using it with my Z9, I'm sure it will be awesome! Also have the 500pf for when carrying around the 600 is not in the cards for whatever reason!
 
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ssheipel said:
This is my thinking; almost certainly going to grab the 500 pf when I pick up my Z9 and then wait for a long prime Z lens. I currently have the 180-400 f4. I just passed up (likely foolishly) a refurbished 800mm from Nikon Canada; luckily someone had bought it when I went back to consider it (or the wait) again :)
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Between the 180-400 and 500PF, you're pretty much set. I envy your 180-400, the only zoom I own is a 70-200. My normal setup is the 600e+TC14+D6 on the tripod and 500PF+D850 on my black rapid strap. Only changes for me will be swapping my D6 for the Z9, then swapping my D850 for my D6. I've already started saving for the non-existent 800mm Z whenever that happens. In other news, if you're buying new, I think the 500PF is on sale right now.
 
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grossidm said:
Between the 180-400 and 500PF, you're pretty much set. I envy your 180-400, the only zoom I own is a 70-200. My normal setup is the 600e+TC14+D6 on the tripod and 500PF+D850 on my black rapid strap. Only changes for me will be swapping my D6 for the Z9, then swapping my D850 for my D6. I've already started saving for the non-existent 800mm Z whenever that happens. In other news, if you're buying new, I think the 500PF is on sale right now.
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Yes, re the 500 sale price; surely the price won't drop before the Z9 arrives :) I love the 300 pf and everything I read (and see) indicates the 500 is as good or better, so.... And am now firmly in the camp of waiting (saving) for super long glass for the Z mount.
 
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nicoTHX said:
Hi gang - would like to get your views on two options to go along a Nikon Z9. Use case is Safaris in Africa so a variety of subjects.
Note that I already have a 200-400 F/4 to go along with this.

- 600mm AF-S II - there are some cheap ones available on ebay - around $4K.
Reading through some comments, it seems like it would get good AF through the FTZ adapter and would a get second life by now getting VR with inbody stabilisation ?
Anyone with experience of these old AF-S glass on the Z9 ?

Pro: quality glass and reach, ability to put a TC for extra reach. Con: heavy, harder to resale, questionable AF, might get end of life for repair soonish

OR

- 500mm PF - a bit more affordable, more recent, I assume better AF and much lighter, easier to resale. Con is that’s a tad shorter and only 5.6 so reach could be a problem. I could always crop I guess…

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I don't see any 600mm AF-S II lenses for that price range that will autofocus with the Z9, unless the Z9 has a screw drive for AF that I can't see.

I do remember seeing some 600mms a few days ago that at ~ $3500-$4500 seemed too good to be true. Even though they were on ebay, there were notes from the seller informing the reader that they wouldn't accept bids or sell through ebay, and that if one desired to buy the lens, one should contact the seller by phone or email to facilitate the transaction. Since they all appeared to come down early, I assume that ebay removed them becaused the seller was violating ebay's terms of service.

Were I you, I'd wait until I found out about the possibility of using a prime and a TC with the Z9. If it were determined that you could do so, and that IQ was good enough, I'd use what I had now with a TC and wait for the S-Series lens in the focal length you want becomes available.
 
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thanks all for your contributions and comments, it’s really appreciated.
My takeways are:

- better wait for real world feedback from Z9 + old fixed glass to see if this is a solid alternative (AF speed & VR through IBIS)
- 500PF has many positive notes but since new native long lenses might come soon, it might better to wait a bit.
- I’m also thinking of selling the 200-400/F4 to get a newer 100-400. Will be much easier to carry, to hand hold, has better range and I don’t think I would lose much in terms of bokeh. This would also free some space in the bag for a big lens.

Not planning to buy immediately so better watch this space - it will evolve rapidly in the coming months. At least it’s good that Nikon gave some heads up on their roadmap!
 
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Whiskeyman said:
I don't see any 600mm AF-S II lenses for that price range that will autofocus with the Z9, unless the Z9 has a screw drive for AF that I can't see.

I do remember seeing some 600mms a few days ago that at ~ $3500-$4500 seemed too good to be true. Even though they were on ebay, there were notes from the seller informing the reader that they wouldn't accept bids or sell through ebay, and that if one desired to buy the lens, one should contact the seller by phone or email to facilitate the transaction. Since they all appeared to come down early, I assume that ebay removed them becaused the seller was violating ebay's terms of service.

Were I you, I'd wait until I found out about the possibility of using a prime and a TC with the Z9. If it were determined that you could do so, and that IQ was good enough, I'd use what I had now with a TC and wait for the S-Series lens in the focal length you want becomes available.
Click to expand...
here is the ad I saw : https://www.ebay.com/itm/373805450387 seems legit no ?
 
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nicoTHX said:
Use case is Safaris in Africa so a variety of subjects
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@nicoTHX , I would also recommend to wait
I don't know where you are at home and how many times you've been on safaris but I'd consider the following:
if you are not in South African continent then you need to fly and carry your lenses, if you are in SA or SADC then you will drive and any heavy lenses are ok
if you are not in South African continent then you probably cannot go now anyway because of omicron (you can, but going back home can mean staying in quarantine somewhere ... what can also cost something) so, better is to wait
The other points:
if you visit national parks then you probably need long lens because you cannot off-road
if you go to private game reserves then you probably don't need long lens... the guides drive close to the animals. unless you have a private vehicle in private concession (very expensive) then you can drive away from the animal. if you are with other people then you need to adapt to them and normally they want to come closer
in last video Steve was talking about eye-level pictures made with 600mm lens. the pictures are amazing, the idea is great but Sony lens is 3kg as I remember ... so, you can even shoot birds with Sony 600mm but how long can you hold 600mm of Nikon?
the big heavy lens is a burden in safari: if you are a self-driver and drive you cannot use it because during the time you put it out of the window the animal will be gone, if you are in a game-drive vehicle and there are some other guests then there is only a little space to put your gear
so, it really depend on the particular case! which country and which park will you visit and how (self-driving, photo-group, other group, private guide, etc...)
 
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A lot depends on the camera used as a D5/D6 needs a much longer lens to provide the same image size as one gets with the D850 or a Z7 II. Vehicle to subject distances also vary depending upon where you are going and the time of year.

I find Yellowstone atypical of the camera to subject distances I normally encounter. More often a 500mm and a 80-400mm are my lenses of choice on land and especially when shooting from a small boat. I had a 600mm F/4E in the Pantanal but used it very little, and this has been true in Costa Rica and Alaska as well.
 
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