600mm AF-S II or 500mm PF on Nikon Z9 ?

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My 600 f4 AFS-II G with FTZ works very well on my Z7 with/without the TC-1III, so I expect it will be equally fine with the Z9, but it is a beast that I use only with a gimbal mount tripod from positions in my heavily wooded back yard to capture birds and BIF. The 500 f5.6 PF is my in-the-field solution for the same subjects and am likely to be selling the 600mm if and when I can get my hands on a 180-400 S zoom.
 
Hi gang - would like to get your views on two options to go along a Nikon Z9. Use case is Safaris in Africa so a variety of subjects.
Note that I already have a 200-400 F/4 to go along with this.

- 600mm AF-S II - there are some cheap ones available on ebay - around $4K.
Reading through some comments, it seems like it would get good AF through the FTZ adapter and would a get second life by now getting VR with inbody stabilisation ?
Anyone with experience of these old AF-S glass on the Z9 ?

Pro: quality glass and reach, ability to put a TC for extra reach. Con: heavy, harder to resale, questionable AF, might get end of life for repair soonish

OR

- 500mm PF - a bit more affordable, more recent, I assume better AF and much lighter, easier to resale. Con is that’s a tad shorter and only 5.6 so reach could be a problem. I could always crop I guess…

Thoughts?

The 600 f/4 has a place, and it's different than a 500 PF.

I'd be concerned about buying from Japan and dealing with an import or problems with a gray market lens. I'd be very worried about the ability to repair or replace an AF motor. That lens was last produced in 2007.

I'd stick with a 500 PF out of your choice, but the 600 f/4 G VR is a terrific lens and is also available used for around $5500 or so. It's got VR and was much more recently in production, so parts are still available.
 
@nicoTHX , I would also recommend to wait
I don't know where you are at home and how many times you've been on safaris but I'd consider the following:
if you are not in South African continent then you need to fly and carry your lenses, if you are in SA or SADC then you will drive and any heavy lenses are ok
if you are not in South African continent then you probably cannot go now anyway because of omicron (you can, but going back home can mean staying in quarantine somewhere ... what can also cost something) so, better is to wait
The other points:
if you visit national parks then you probably need long lens because you cannot off-road
if you go to private game reserves then you probably don't need long lens... the guides drive close to the animals. unless you have a private vehicle in private concession (very expensive) then you can drive away from the animal. if you are with other people then you need to adapt to them and normally they want to come closer
in last video Steve was talking about eye-level pictures made with 600mm lens. the pictures are amazing, the idea is great but Sony lens is 3kg as I remember ... so, you can even shoot birds with Sony 600mm but how long can you hold 600mm of Nikon?
the big heavy lens is a burden in safari: if you are a self-driver and drive you cannot use it because during the time you put it out of the window the animal will be gone, if you are in a game-drive vehicle and there are some other guests then there is only a little space to put your gear
so, it really depend on the particular case! which country and which park will you visit and how (self-driving, photo-group, other group, private guide, etc...)
Thanks for your note - I'm fairly well seasoned in safari, actually just got back from two weeks in Masai Mara. I live in Dubai, UAE so it's very close (4,5hr direct flight). We do have off road permits in the section of Masai Mara which is around the camp so it's no problem there and the cars are also setup to accommodate gimbal heads. There is even the option of removing a door to get ever lower to be at eye level, works great but hard on the neck! Here is a few images taken on the trip :)

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@nicoTHX , excellent images!!
So, in your last safari you didn't need a heavy long lens, I assume. A few years ago I was also in such vehicle with gimbal heads. I put D4+24-70mm for making video and then we drove through the bush ... Don't ask me what the camera did 😂 .
Ok, in Mara there are no many bushes but anyway did you try to have 600mm on gimbal in safari vehicle? The question is also how many persons are in the row in the vehicle. If you lay down with 600mm to take eye-level shots then what the other person will do? 😃
The smaller lens is an advantage in any case. But for self-drivers (I mean a person who is not driving) and for pictures in the camp (and there are many nice birds!!) the 600mm is an excellent lens! But for BIF is 500PF better because you can shoot hand-held. With 600 on tripod you will miss the shots. I am talking from my and my partners experience and what I saw on safaris (I've been 15 times already)
 
Your goals are good ones but, in my opinion, there are far too many unknowns to make an informed decision now. The Z9 looks fabulous, but since nobody has one yet, it's hard to know how it will perform with legacy glass, especially the older 600mm lenses. Buying used on eBay can be tricky - there are far too many questionable vendors, in my opinion. Just in the last two months, I've seen a number of ads for 600E lenses for amazingly low asking prices, only to see the vendors disappear in a day or two. I myself fell for one of these scams - I ponied up $3,000 for a 600E, and the lens and vendor vanished into the cloud. Fortunately, eBay refunded my money. I might have known that if it looked too good to be true, it was.

Being the conservative, old curmudgeon that I am 🤓, if I were in your situation, I'd proceed very cautiously. Important not to put the cart before the horse. I'd wait until I had my Z9 in hand, and see how it performed with my existing lenses. I'd then rent an older 600G and perhaps the 500PF, just to see how I liked the combos. Once satisfied, I'd pursue purchase options from sources I know and trust, which doesn't include eBay, at least in my book.

Best of luck!
 
One of the reasons I decided to wait a year on a Z9 is I shoot birds 80% of the time and other wildlife 18% of the time and this and that 2%. I have a 500 PF and a 600 f/4 E (lucked out and got the only refurbished one Nikon had and got it when Nikon had one of their 10% off sales on all refurbished lenses, no sales tax and free shipping. I also have the 1.4 TC III ... so the FTZ II and the Z9 have work to do when they arrive :cool:

On my DSLR (currently only a D850 since I sold the D6 and D500) I use the 600 f/4E the most and so far all hand held for the last year other than some early test shots on my tripod and balancing my gimble with the 600 and a RRS long lens support worked great on the patio :) The 500 pf get used the most if I want a far less bulky lens and camera in my lap while driving in a drive by shooting zone :) The 500 pf is a great lens but it is a little light and whippy for my hand held shooting style.
 
@nicoTHX , excellent images!!
So, in your last safari you didn't need a heavy long lens, I assume. A few years ago I was also in such vehicle with gimbal heads. I put D4+24-70mm for making video and then we drove through the bush ... Don't ask me what the camera did 😂 .
Ok, in Mara there are no many bushes but anyway did you try to have 600mm on gimbal in safari vehicle? The question is also how many persons are in the row in the vehicle. If you lay down with 600mm to take eye-level shots then what the other person will do? 😃
The smaller lens is an advantage in any case. But for self-drivers (I mean a person who is not driving) and for pictures in the camp (and there are many nice birds!!) the 600mm is an excellent lens! But for BIF is 500PF better because you can shoot hand-held. With 600 on tripod you will miss the shots. I am talking from my and my partners experience and what I saw on safaris (I've been 15 times already)
For this safari, I had a Sony A7R3 + 70-200/F4 & D500 + 200/400 F4 which is quite a big gun already. We were 3 in the car and so would alternate for the "lying position". To your point, a big gun such as 600mm might be too big to handle in such fast paced scenarios. A 500PF will be more easy to carry around for sure!
 
Your goals are good ones but, in my opinion, there are far too many unknowns to make an informed decision now. The Z9 looks fabulous, but since nobody has one yet, it's hard to know how it will perform with legacy glass, especially the older 600mm lenses. Buying used on eBay can be tricky - there are far too many questionable vendors, in my opinion. Just in the last two months, I've seen a number of ads for 600E lenses for amazingly low asking prices, only to see the vendors disappear in a day or two. I myself fell for one of these scams - I ponied up $3,000 for a 600E, and the lens and vendor vanished into the cloud. Fortunately, eBay refunded my money. I might have known that if it looked too good to be true, it was.

Being the conservative, old curmudgeon that I am 🤓, if I were in your situation, I'd proceed very cautiously. Important not to put the cart before the horse. I'd wait until I had my Z9 in hand, and see how it performed with my existing lenses. I'd then rent an older 600G and perhaps the 500PF, just to see how I liked the combos. Once satisfied, I'd pursue purchase options from sources I know and trust, which doesn't include eBay, at least in my book.

Best of luck!
yes, I will definitely wait and watch what will happen - too many uncertainty right now. I'm thinking that such an investment has to be somewhat future proof and I'm not sure that buying such an old lens is wise. I just realised that Nikon pre announced a 400 2.8 with TC 1.4 which could be a great alternative. Might cost a bit (say 12K$) but will be futureproof, light and of great quality. This, coupled with a Z9, would make a heck of a setup for wildife!
 
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here is the ad I saw : https://www.ebay.com/itm/373805450387 seems legit no ?
I don't see anything that alarms me like the other ebay offerings I saw did.

Personally, I prefer a lens that is newer than this one when I purchase a used one. On the used market, I'd look at either of the last two generations of this lens: The FL E or the AF-S G versions, but that is just me. I've read reports that indicate that the D model is good, just not as refined as the later versions. Part of the decision has to include what you are planning to photograph with the lens. I second Eric Bowles concerns about this lens' maintainability. As far as shipping and getting it repaired, it depends upon where you live, since it is offered for sale from Japan.

Edit #2: After looking at more of your images, I'd look for a more modern version of the 600mm to get the best optical performance out of the lens that is available. Your photos are good enough to warrant the better version of the lens, IMO.
 
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Hi gang - would like to get your views on two options to go along a Nikon Z9. Use case is Safaris in Africa so a variety of subjects.
Note that I already have a 200-400 F/4 to go along with this.

- 600mm AF-S II - there are some cheap ones available on ebay - around $4K.
Reading through some comments, it seems like it would get good AF through the FTZ adapter and would a get second life by now getting VR with inbody stabilisation ?
Anyone with experience of these old AF-S glass on the Z9 ?

Pro: quality glass and reach, ability to put a TC for extra reach. Con: heavy, harder to resale, questionable AF, might get end of life for repair soonish

OR

- 500mm PF - a bit more affordable, more recent, I assume better AF and much lighter, easier to resale. Con is that’s a tad shorter and only 5.6 so reach could be a problem. I could always crop I guess…

Thoughts?


FX glass on the Z body is reduced to only 3 stops from the claimed 5 stops of IBIS........so go slowly.......all is not what it seems...........

Everything depends only on what your doing...............and can afford.

Lenses ....Lighter with flexibility, ease of use, will always win in the end..........and have you taking more photo's...........for serious dedicated pro applications its another story.

As humans we have to much choice, manufactures however will make certain what we want we don't get it all in one........

F2.8 F4 primes are unbeatable PERIOD, beyond these F2.8 F4 primes or exotics is where the compromise starts which ever way you cut it before you trade off light, bokah, speed, otherwise you will find the need to fill the void with much more ISO which defeats the purpose of all the expensive gear you lug around.

Big primes are expensive some are very light cheaper ones are very heavy.

My ornithologist friend who is in his 80s, travels remotely once a year with the intention of collecting images of 30 species of birds, a D4s with a 500 f4 and mono pod he usually in 3 weeks gets around 12 out of the 30 species needed.

He sold the the D4s and 500 F4, bought a D500 , 300 pf, with a 1.4 TC and nailed 28 out of 30 species which means he didn't need to go each year, the two species missing he couldn't find, Very happy he says.......the new gear allowed him to act , move and travel react quickly...........

Recently he got a 500 pf and loves it but not over excited about using it with the TC............its to hard hand held HE KNOWS HOW TO GET CLOSE TO THE SUBJECT this always out dose the need for long glass unless its a polar bear or lion etc LOL.

So what you do and use has to be fit for the purpose.............not what you would like.

I am aware of costs, i don't want to own any expensive primes unless i use them every day.....i rather rent for those special occasions. That said i do have on the shelf a 300 2.8 VR II in mint condition, a little uneasy letting it go, the new 120 - 300 is great but has compromises at different focal ranges as all zooms do.

The 200-500 for me is not the perfect exotic but gee i get a lot of things i normally wouldn't get around the oasis lagoon full of wild life.......i visit not far away.
I think there are two separate needs for long glass.........200-500 range, 500-720 range and then 600 -840 range you cant have it all in one lens, for me teh 200-500 on te D850 equals with cropping 720mm...if i need more i get closer or pass.
 
FX glass on the Z body is reduced to only 3 stops from the claimed 5 stops of IBIS........so go slowly.......all is not what it seems...........
Just a small correction - it's not the number of stops - it's the number of axis that are 3 and 5 axis respectively. Many of the F-mount lenses have VR of 4 stops of benefit. IBIS is another method of correction with correction of up to 5.5 stops or more depending on the camera and lens combination. IBIS can work in conjunction with lens VR.
 
Just a small correction - it's not the number of stops - it's the number of axis that are 3 and 5 axis respectively. Many of the F-mount lenses have VR of 4 stops of benefit. IBIS is another method of correction with correction of up to 5.5 stops or more depending on the camera and lens combination. IBIS can work in conjunction with lens VR.
Even my wifes Z50 performs quite well with IBIS and Tamron 100-400 VC (VR) ... I do not know the stops but ... I can easily see the difference when I have used the same lens on my D850 and tested it against her Z50.
 
Hi gang - would like to get your views on two options to go along a Nikon Z9. Use case is Safaris in Africa so a variety of subjects.
Note that I already have a 200-400 F/4 to go along with this.

- 600mm AF-S II - there are some cheap ones available on ebay - around $4K.
Reading through some comments, it seems like it would get good AF through the FTZ adapter and would a get second life by now getting VR with inbody stabilisation ?
Anyone with experience of these old AF-S glass on the Z9 ?

Pro: quality glass and reach, ability to put a TC for extra reach. Con: heavy, harder to resale, questionable AF, might get end of life for repair soonish

OR

- 500mm PF - a bit more affordable, more recent, I assume better AF and much lighter, easier to resale. Con is that’s a tad shorter and only 5.6 so reach could be a problem. I could always crop I guess…

Thoughts?
Seems a simple choice to me. The 600 means you'll always be on a tripod since there are few people who can handhold that cannon. The 500 works nicely on a tripod or handheld.

Quality wise…the 600 is faster glass and 100mm longer…but I don't have any experience with it since I don't want the weight or expense that comes along with the 600…so I really can't say one way or the other. However…as always…consider your output, whether you do this for money, and what kind of shots and how far you have to carry your stuff to get the shot.

Me…I think the 500PF is pretty darned nice…easily to hold or hike with without carrying a tripod and that's a consideration when your body refuses to keep up with your mind…the latter says I'll never be old but the former says "not so fast buddy". My body simply isn't keeping up it's part of the deal at 67. I still hike and have both big/heavy and small/light/travel/hiking tripods but while I would and have used the 500PF on the small one I would hesitate to use the much heavier 600 on it.

So…since you say you can get the 600 for $4K then it comes down to weight vs one faster stop and 100mm more reach. For the reach…on a Z9, like on my Z7II…cropping in a bit in post isn't a big deal so for me the reach is a wash. Weight and cost wise…the 500PF was my choice and it wasn't because I'm hesitant to buy used (which I am)…it is really the weight for me.
 
Seems a simple choice to me. The 600 means you'll always be on a tripod since there are few people who can handhold that cannon. The 500 works nicely on a tripod or handheld.

Quality wise…the 600 is faster glass and 100mm longer…but I don't have any experience with it since I don't want the weight or expense that comes along with the 600…so I really can't say one way or the other. However…as always…consider your output, whether you do this for money, and what kind of shots and how far you have to carry your stuff to get the shot.

Me…I think the 500PF is pretty darned nice…easily to hold or hike with without carrying a tripod and that's a consideration when your body refuses to keep up with your mind…the latter says I'll never be old but the former says "not so fast buddy". My body simply isn't keeping up it's part of the deal at 67. I still hike and have both big/heavy and small/light/travel/hiking tripods but while I would and have used the 500PF on the small one I would hesitate to use the much heavier 600 on it.

So…since you say you can get the 600 for $4K then it comes down to weight vs one faster stop and 100mm more reach. For the reach…on a Z9, like on my Z7II…cropping in a bit in post isn't a big deal so for me the reach is a wash. Weight and cost wise…the 500PF was my choice and it wasn't because I'm hesitant to buy used (which I am)…it is really the weight for me.
thanks for sharing your perspective - you're confirming my assumptions. An extra 100mm with a 45MP is manageable as can be easily cropped, uncertainty with compatibility on Z9 and not so easy to handle as in safari cars it can be tight. Now I'm hesitating between 500PF and waiting for the upcoming 400 2.8... not the same price for sure...
 
thanks for sharing your perspective - you're confirming my assumptions. An extra 100mm with a 45MP is manageable as can be easily cropped, uncertainty with compatibility on Z9 and not so easy to handle as in safari cars it can be tight. Now I'm hesitating between 500PF and waiting for the upcoming 400 2.8... not the same price for sure...
It really comes down to hand holdability…or not…and whether you want that. Then price…I'm sure the 400/2.8 will be much more expensive than the 500PF is…it's 2.8 and has the built in TC but at least for me it's the weight and 'requires tripod or monopod' issue more than the cost. I'm not independently wealthy…but we're retired with nice pensions and paid for house and all that jazz…so I could buy one of the $12K lenses if I wanted to…but when balanced price vs utility it's just not a reasonable purchase for me…not to mention the weight and size issue. The 500 is easily handholdable…and becomes a 750 if I switch the Z7II to DX mode but I usually don't and just crop in post.
 
Well I got my Z9 today, and at first glance its having an issue with my AF-S 600mm D II... I get a message >>> ""Lock Lens aperture ring at minimum aperture lock (largest F/-Number)" also an fEE on bottom line of viewfinder. I can auto focus but as of yet can't activate the shutter. I'm going to investigate more (ie I'm searching internet) I thought I set it up to release on shutter button without focus lock, but still learning the menus

Update: Nikon says it should work. Also... I added a TC-14EII in between the lens and FTZ II adapter and that combination does work... Go figure. Nikon is investigating.
 
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Well I got my Z9 today, and at first glance its having an issue with my AF-S 600mm D II... I get a message >>> "Lens is at minimum aperture lock (max F-Stop number)" also an fEE on bottom line of viewfinder. I can auto focus but as of yet can't activate the shutter. I'm going to investigate more (ie I'm searching internet) I thought I set it up to release on shutter button, but still learning the menus
I am not any kind of expert on the Nikon 600 mm nomenclature and I can not find out what this lens is ... is it also known as a AF-S NIKKOR 600mm F4G ED VR ? which is what I got back when I put this in the Nikon USA search box.
 
Even my wifes Z50 performs quite well with IBIS and Tamron 100-400 VC (VR) ... I do not know the stops but ... I can easily see the difference when I have used the same lens on my D850 and tested it against her Z50.
The Z50 doesn't have IBIS. (much to my annoyance) Excellent camera, though. Differences in IQ might be elsewhere...
 
Well I got my Z9 today, and at first glance its having an issue with my AF-S 600mm D II... I get a message >>> ""Lock Lens aperture ring at minimum aperture lock (largest F/-Number)" also an fEE on bottom line of viewfinder. I can auto focus but as of yet can't activate the shutter. I'm going to investigate more (ie I'm searching internet) I thought I set it up to release on shutter button without focus lock, but still learning the menus

Update: Nikon says it should work. Also... I added a TC-14EII in between the lens and FTZ II adapter and that combination does work... Go figure. Nikon is investigating.
The 600 f4D does work on my Z's but requires the aperture ring be locked at minimum aperture (the little switch/slot next to the ring). Otherwise you get the error message. The TC14 II works but the III version doesn't have the aperture sensing ring to pass information to the body.
 
The Z50 doesn't have IBIS. (much to my annoyance) Excellent camera, though. Differences in IQ might be elsewhere...
The Z50 has body based vibration reduction that Nikon calls Lens shift using voice coil motors (VCMs) ... so not applied to the sensor. She keeps both the in body and the Nikon vibration reduction on and it works best with both turned on.
 
The Z50 has body based vibration reduction that Nikon calls Lens shift using voice coil motors (VCMs) ... so not applied to the sensor. She keeps both the in body and the Nikon vibration reduction on and it works best with both turned on.
I'll have to look into it. Do you have pointers to a writeup? I find references to voice coils and angular velocity sensors in the Z50 lenses, but this seems to be referencing a type in lens VR, not the body? Both of the Z50 kit lenses have these voice coils and sensors, but some of the Z lenses (like the 24-70 f4) don't have any VR relying exclusively on IBIS, so I'm careful which lenses I use on the Z50 and when.
 
I'll have to look into it. Do you have pointers to a writeup? I find references to voice coils and angular velocity sensors in the Z50 lenses, but this seems to be referencing a type in lens VR, not the body? Both of the Z50 kit lenses have these voice coils and sensors, but some of the Z lenses (like the 24-70 f4) don't have any VR relying exclusively on IBIS, so I'm careful which lenses I use on the Z50 and when.
No only what Nikon has on the Z50 page and what my wife has experienced while I was using my Tamron 100-400 on my D850 as we stood side by side shooting the same birds.
 
Not sure why the Z50 or any lens other than the AF-S 600mm D II entered this discussion. But since last reply, my Z9/FTZ II has stopped working with both combinations of the 600mm D II with and without the TC-14E II. I also have move the manual aperture ring to several positions, locking at both the max and min. All combinations work with my D850 and I tried cleaning the leads of the 600mm just in case... Except for a short 2 minute time frame with the TC, its constantly comes up with the error message I provided above
 
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