Nikon is quick to point out the Z9 processor is 10X as fast as the XSPEED6 and that it does 120 AF calculations a second. What I'm now curious about is how many AF cals a second were they getting in the Z6II and Z7II. Cursory logic would say around 12/second. If that's the case its a miracle the AF worked at all in those cameras.
A curious question about the Z cameras
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There are two limitations to 'AF calculations per second' one is the processor and yeah the new EXPEED7 is touted as being 10x faster than the EXPEED6 (of which there are two, not one in the Z6II and Z7II cameras). But the other limitation is how fast data is read off the sensor. The new stacked sensor in the Z9 reads out data at 120 Hz or 120 images per second as opposed to 60 Hz for the sensors in the older Z cameras.
I suspect that 120 AF calculations per second is really talking about the stacked sensor as it just happens to map right to its 120 Hz readout rate. But sure if you get data from the sensor at that rate you also need a processing engine that can handle all that data.
So I'd read that as the Z9 can do 120 AF calculations per second and the Z6, Z7, Z6 II and Z7 II can do 60 AF calculations per second based on the sensor readout rate. The Z9 is likely doing a lot more sophisticated AF calculations when supporting things like tracking modes.
Does it mean that Nikon had no clue that the AF in the cameras in Z ii series would be no good for action/wild life(since they went for Exceed 6 after Z i series
)
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
Nikon never marketed the Z6/7 series cameras as sports or action oriented just like Sony A7R4 or A74. Of course in capable hands these cameras can still work very well even for action /wildlife unless action/wildlife only means swallows in flight.
So if someone assumed it would serve photographing sustained action it's clearly the problem of the one who bought or used it for purposes those cameras weren't suited for.
So if someone assumed it would serve photographing sustained action it's clearly the problem of the one who bought or used it for purposes those cameras weren't suited for.
If you look at the Nikon website and/or brochures for the Z6ii/7ii you won't see ANY images of sports/wildlife. The cameras weren't marketed as such. They were marketed and intended for landscape, studio, and general purpose photography. Which is why I personally am still shooting DSLRs. Other than my little a6000 travel kit.Does it mean that Nikon had no clue that the AF in the cameras in Z ii series would be no good for action/wild life(since they went for Exceed 6 after Z i series
)
Its not about Nikon marketing the products.It s about the people's perception about Nikon as a wild life/action oriented camera company .Did Nikon ever say that these cameras were not for action & wild life photography.There were also reports about improving the AF of these cameras which never materialised till date.It made people believe that these cameras will be made suitable for wild life one day & from what i have seen even in this forum people are still hoping for AF improvement
Yeah.Those people are still hoping for AF improvement (as is eveident in many threads in this forum) & many who did not switched to other brands
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
ROFLMAO
Nikon is very tight lipped and suffer for it as indicated in these comments. One of the first things PR people try to teach managers is that peoples' perceptions are their reality.
Oooookay...
RUMORS are not REPORTS. Though you are in good company as most people these days don't recognize the difference. And Nikon clearly doesn't recognize that when they remain silent they let the blogosphere/social media speak for them.
There have been many technically savvy people in this forum who have attempted to explain why it is highly improbable that the current Z series will see any significant improvement in AF. But clearly none of those voices are "influencers"...
fcotterill
Well-known member
In addition, EXPEED7 is processing and compressing images into RAW, jpg etc besides running everything else. It is likely considered a dual processor camera using EXPEED7's should higher spec imaging push up demands on the hardware. Nikon strategically minded engineers must have considered this in designing for future uses of its SoC's... it will probably see several years of hard work in more cameras.
Rebuilding the Z6 and Z7 with Dual EVF-AF architecture and more ie EXPEED7 could only improve performance surely ie no backout and higher fps, plus some of the Z9 AF nuggets, which are feasible to run off these BSI unstacked sensors (?)
NOTE: the Z6 and Z7 Firmware 2.0 in early 2019 did improve the AF markedly
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Rebuilding the Z6 and Z7 with Dual EVF-AF architecture and more ie EXPEED7 could only improve performance surely ie no backout and higher fps, plus some of the Z9 AF nuggets, which are feasible to run off these BSI unstacked sensors (?)
NOTE: the Z6 and Z7 Firmware 2.0 in early 2019 did improve the AF markedly
[/QUOTE]
Does this refer to this "
Lyrics
Roflmao
Do-Doo-duh-do-do
ROFLmao
Do-DOO-duh-do" (given your screen name),
or to "Rolling on the floor laughing my a#@ off" ?
Just curious as this is the second time I've you post this....
I bought my Z7 when it first came out, not expecting that it would be a wildlife camera. I knew it had been released with the intent that it was a landscape, object, nature camera, not good for anything moving fast. I still use my D500 or my D850 for wildlife. The Z7 does a great job on anything not moving.
Nikon is very tight lipped and suffer for it as indicated in these comments. One of the first things PR people try to teach managers is that peoples' perceptions are their reality.
Oooookay...
RUMORS are not REPORTS. Though you are in good company as most people these days don't recognize the difference. And Nikon clearly doesn't recognize that when they remain silent they let the blogosphere/social media speak for them.
There have been many technically savvy people in this forum who have attempted to explain why it is highly improbable that the current Z series will see any significant improvement in AF.
I dont know whose company you keep probably only the rolling eyes with eyes closed
It also seems you have not seen reviews of Steve who clearly mentioned about the AF issues after thoroghly testing them & I hope you won't call him as social media ( you may if you forget that this forum was created by Steve)
John Navitsky
Well-known member
Does it mean that Nikon had no clue that the AF in the cameras in Z ii series would be no good for action/wild life(since they went for Exceed 6 after Z i series
)
The Z6, Z6ii weren't mistakes where Nikon didn't build cameras with the "right" features. Canon and Nikon didn't have the capabilities to build the cameras they are coming out with today previously. If they could have released a Z6iii in the Z6 timeframe, they would have. The problem is both Nikon and Canon had a lot of work to do to get to this point. It's like if an automotive manufacture decided to build a new thirteen cylinder supercar -- they have to build the engine first. In the mean time, they're going to give you a v6 or v8.
Steve did think Z series as Wild life cameras as can be seen in the video
As for myself I did not buy the Z cameras & do feel.sorry for people who bought it for wild life & still hoping that Nikon would really improve its AF.
I am pretty happy with my A1 and hope Nikon brings out a Z 8 ( mirrorless version of D 850) so that I can use my 500 PF.
I do find Z9 heavy for my kind of birding photography
FB101
Well-known member
I agree that there is clearly a case of misplaced expectations when it comes to the Z6/7ii AF performance for fast action and tracking with complex foregrounds and backgrounds.
But it’s understandable from 2 perspectives.
First it’s hard to not draw a direct line from the D780 to the Z6ii and from the D850 to the Z7ii. Specs and price would lead many to believe that the Z cameras were the next evolution of those two D bodies. On many fronts they are, but not on complex AF acquisition and tracking - which for our group is kind of a big deal.
The second perspective is that the Z6/7ii did not launch in a vacuum. The A9 and A9ii were there and the R5/6 were already announced and actually had started shipping. i think loyal Nikon shooters could be forgiven for assuming that Nikon would close the gap with at least the R5/6 and for being disappointed when it didn’t.
So yes, Nikon didn’t mislead anybody with the Z6/7ii upgrades - but They didn’t deliver the cameras our wildlife crowd expected. I don’t think it matters much whether they promised those capabilities or not, because in the end 2 other companies delivered those capabilities and marketed the heck out of them.
i am delighted to see what Nikon did with the z9. They packed so much performance for that price point that they will shake both canon and Sony’s trees. And that’s awesome, but it doesn’t mean we need to be apologists for the fact that the z6/7ii are short of their competition (specifically for wildlife shooting; for landscape I’d pick the Z7ii any day over any other camera besides the Fuji GFX line).
But it’s understandable from 2 perspectives.
First it’s hard to not draw a direct line from the D780 to the Z6ii and from the D850 to the Z7ii. Specs and price would lead many to believe that the Z cameras were the next evolution of those two D bodies. On many fronts they are, but not on complex AF acquisition and tracking - which for our group is kind of a big deal.
The second perspective is that the Z6/7ii did not launch in a vacuum. The A9 and A9ii were there and the R5/6 were already announced and actually had started shipping. i think loyal Nikon shooters could be forgiven for assuming that Nikon would close the gap with at least the R5/6 and for being disappointed when it didn’t.
So yes, Nikon didn’t mislead anybody with the Z6/7ii upgrades - but They didn’t deliver the cameras our wildlife crowd expected. I don’t think it matters much whether they promised those capabilities or not, because in the end 2 other companies delivered those capabilities and marketed the heck out of them.
i am delighted to see what Nikon did with the z9. They packed so much performance for that price point that they will shake both canon and Sony’s trees. And that’s awesome, but it doesn’t mean we need to be apologists for the fact that the z6/7ii are short of their competition (specifically for wildlife shooting; for landscape I’d pick the Z7ii any day over any other camera besides the Fuji GFX line).
FB101
Well-known member
I think that’s the very crux of the issue. Canon did find a way to deliver an in between step that gave close to the same benefits as Sony A9ii but without the stacked sensor. Actually is some aspects the R5 is a better wildlife camera than the A9ii - and they did it with combining old parts in a smarter way. Good enough to bridge canon users while they caught up as you pointed out. Nikon missed that in between step (Specifically for complex AF acquisition and tracking) but their recovery from this faux-pas is quite impressive. Time will tell if they can trickle it down fast enough now.
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
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thelordofthelight
Well-known member
Not sure if the Z6/7 were that slow, like 12 calculations/second. I have used the Z7 extensively and have rented the Z6II few times and in my experience, AF wasn't that bad at all. It was certainly not in the league as the D5/850/500 but it was almost as good as the D750. In fact I found the Z AF to perform slightly better in some shooting conditions. The biggest problems I had with the Zs were: 1.) The EVF stutter that made it nearly impossible to track moving subjects at CH+ and 2.) Lack of custom control options to set AF-on and AF area modes. I feel all these issues collectively got grouped as bad AF.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
My understanding is their DSLR dual pixel AF was easier to adapt to mirrorless. Each company goes forward as they can based on the context of where they start and what they have when they start.
I have a D500 and the Z6II and I have been very happy with the Z6II with my 300PF and 500PF. I have also been very happy with the 1.4 TC on both of those lenses.
No, I can't get a Kingfisher in flight with the Z6II but I can't with my D500 either!
The I Menu and the User 1, 2, and 3 selectors are really outstanding and make the switch from single point, single servo to continuous servo modes super easy and fast!
Given the price point I am really happy with the Z6 II. And IF I ever get the Z 105 macro delivered, I will be 4x happier!
No, I can't get a Kingfisher in flight with the Z6II but I can't with my D500 either!
The I Menu and the User 1, 2, and 3 selectors are really outstanding and make the switch from single point, single servo to continuous servo modes super easy and fast!
Given the price point I am really happy with the Z6 II. And IF I ever get the Z 105 macro delivered, I will be 4x happier!
SRLNY
Member
Right. That distinction was pretty clear, and that's why I kept my D850 when I got a Z6ii and otherwise took the chance of waiting for a Z9 (as opposed to jumping ship to Sony or Canon). So, now the D850 is going and my Z9 is on order. I think it is now pretty clear that it's going to be able to handle action just fine. (Heck, the 120 FPS is kind of insane and an 11 megapixel photo would be great for, e.g., shooting my daughter or her friends playing tennis. I don't need fabulous resolution but a really nice shot of a ball coming off the strings for a family photo would be nice!)
I am using my Z-series bodies for wildlife and landscape photography.Does it mean that Nikon had no clue that the AF in the cameras in Z ii series would be no good for action/wild life(since they went for Exceed 6 after Z i series
)
In fact, I am in the process of selling a pair of D500s in order to add a Z7ii to my bag. This will leave me with two Z6II, one Z7, and one Z7ii. I do not plan on getting a Z9 until the summer, if available, but will just have to live with my Z-bodies during my trip to South Africa, Grand Tetons, and Boundary Waters.
My Z-series bodies are more than capable of doing wildlife photography, however, I have taken the time to learn how to use the the Autofocus System.
In case you are not aware, I suggest that you look at the work from these professional photographers who make a living taking pictures of wildlife with their Z-series bodies:
Wildlife Photographer | Nikon Ambasssador | Canadian Geographic P-I-R
Wildlife Photographer Michelle Valberg Is an award-winning and renowned Nikon Ambasssador, Canadian Geographic Photographer-in-residence
www.michellevalberg.com
Natural Art Images: The Photography of Brad Hill: Home
High quality wildlife photography and nature photography. Wildlife Photo tours in the Great Bear Rainforest. Short-run Limited Edition Prints. Rights managed stock photography.
www.naturalart.ca
Moose Peterson
Howdy! Come on in and explore the world of Moose's visual storytelling through his adventures with a camera!
www.moosepeterson.com
Morten Hilmer – Nature & Wildlife Photography
mortenhilmer.com
I know it is hard to believe, but the Z-series can be used to photograph wildlife... see below
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Palouse
Well-known member
Long long ago, in a time before digital ware, I owned a humble Nikon FM. 1 frame at a time, as fast as could wind the film, no auto focus, no ISO (ASA) above 200, no LCD to chimp on, and so on, yet I, and many even better than me survived and thrived.
It appears that Z9 has beaten the pants off of you and you must now beat up on old Nikon models. How sad.
EDIT: To adapt your signature quote:
"Love your camera & your camera loves you back"
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I like the fact that Nikon is back into the Flagship Mirrorless game. It probably means more $$ to develop some additional great Z lenses for us Z6/Z7 users!
By the way, my Daughter bought the Nikon ZFC and loves it. She wishes Nikon had a commission program because two of the other Moms at swimming lessons bought one after seeing hers.
Again, I hope they sell a million and put some of the profits back into more PF lenses. I would REALLY like to see a Z 600 PF with a built-in 1.4x ! I think I would sell my fishing boat to get one!
By the way, my Daughter bought the Nikon ZFC and loves it. She wishes Nikon had a commission program because two of the other Moms at swimming lessons bought one after seeing hers.
Again, I hope they sell a million and put some of the profits back into more PF lenses. I would REALLY like to see a Z 600 PF with a built-in 1.4x ! I think I would sell my fishing boat to get one!