A good look at the R3

[FB101]

While the internet seems to implode at the idea of a 24mp R3, this gives a pretty good look at the new Canon beast.

Actually 24mp isn’t what surprises me - it’s logical for the 1Dx series moving to mirrorless. But a dual card slot with SD card and CF express was unexpected, and so was the articulating screen.

 

[txstone]

While the internet seems to implode at the idea of a 24mp R3, this gives a pretty good look at the new Canon beast.

Actually 24mp isn’t what surprises me - it’s logical for the 1Dx series moving to mirrorless. But a dual card slot with SD card and CF express was unexpected, and so was the articulating screen.

24mp is what surprises me. Since the R3 is positioned between the R5 and the 1 DX Mk III, the R3 must be a ground breaking low light performer. Else why waste a stacked, BSI sensor for 24mp.
The Sony A1, a mirrorless flagship is 50mp as we know. The Canon processor, the R mount communications to the R lenses, the CF Express card, the entire imaging pipeline, should be capable of handling the data from more than 24mp. That’s R6 and Z6 territory - no need for a stacked sensor. The R3 at 24mp looks like a curious return to an earlier time to me - hope it’s reflected in the price.

 

[Doug Herr]

I like the screen.

 

[FB101]

24mp is what surprises me. Since the R3 is positioned between the R5 and the 1 DX Mk III, the R3 must be a ground breaking low light performer. Else why waste a stacked, BSI sensor for 24mp.
The Sony A1, a mirrorless flagship is 50mp as we know. The Canon processor, the R mount communications to the R lenses, the CF Express card, the entire imaging pipeline, should be capable of handling the data from more than 24mp. That’s R6 and Z6 territory - no need for a stacked sensor. The R3 at 24mp looks like a curious return to an earlier time to me - hope it’s reflected in the price.

i think the R3 is indeed a bit of a throwback or maybe a different way to say it is that it is a modern execution on anold concept. I think it will sell very well with sports journalists and wedding photographers. There is a small bump in resolution but file size is still very manageable, there will likely be a zero lag, zero blackout viewfinderto not miss any action (something that requires a stacked sensor), there is flash sync in electronic shutter mode for that noise-free shot of the “I do” (another spec requiring a stacked sensor). And it will have great4k video functionality which is increasingly in demand for those 2 groups of professionals.

For a first attempt at a stacked sensor, it makes sense. It’s not overly ambitious but they won’t screw up and they will learn how to make a great R1. And let’s not forget that Sony’s first attempt went a bit backwards on dynamic range, which is not canon‘s strength, so they might still be learning on how to optimize that sensor technology.

At least that’s the optimistic view. The realist in me says they were taken flat footed by the A1 (although less so than Nikon) and switched direction in mid-air. The internals of the R3 were supposed to be the R1 but suddenly it wasn’t good enough by a long shot and they repacked everything in this R3 with a few adjustments to align with the 3 moniker.

who knows. But I bet it will be a great camera for its intended use. I mean the 1Dx mk3 is still a favorite even for many wildlife pros and this R3 will beat it fair and square except maybe on build quality.

 

[abc123brian]

24mp is what surprises me. Since the R3 is positioned between the R5 and the 1 DX Mk III, the R3 must be a ground breaking low light performer. Else why waste a stacked, BSI sensor for 24mp.
The Sony A1, a mirrorless flagship is 50mp as we know. The Canon processor, the R mount communications to the R lenses, the CF Express card, the entire imaging pipeline, should be capable of handling the data from more than 24mp. That’s R6 and Z6 territory - no need for a stacked sensor. The R3 at 24mp looks like a curious return to an earlier time to me - hope it’s reflected in the price.

I think you are missing the market, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Not everyone is looking for as many MP as they can get. I personally think it is a good choice by Canon to offer the R3 in this MP range. The file sizes will be great for sports, events, weddings, photojournalism, and many other genres. Until earlier this year, the 24MP A9ii (using a stacked sensor) was Sony’s flagship camera while Canon had the 45MP R5 (using a traditional sensor) which matched or beat the A9ii in basically every way. The R5 is very close to the A1 in performance and cost thousands less. The R3 is going to be the benchmark for AF speed and tracking. It will be a very relevant camera. I hope the A1 causes Canon to keep the price a little lower, but expect some of the tech in the camera will keep the price up.

 

[RichF]

There is a high demand for the 1Dx series. The R3 extends the 1Dx into the R series.\

The R5 is a 5D as a ML camera. Canon is doing a very good job segmenting the market place, necessary to be succesful

 

[Icarus]

Seems to me it is a direct competitor to Sony's A9II????

 

[txstone]

I think you are missing the market, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Not everyone is looking for as many MP as they can get. I personally think it is a good choice by Canon to offer the R3 in this MP range. The file sizes will be great for sports, events, weddings, photojournalism, and many other genres. Until earlier this year, the 24MP A9ii (using a stacked sensor) was Sony’s flagship camera while Canon had the 45MP R5 (using a traditional sensor) which matched or beat the A9ii in basically every way. The R5 is very close to the A1 in performance and cost thousands less. The R3 is going to be the benchmark for AF speed and tracking. It will be a very relevant camera. I hope the A1 causes Canon to keep the price a little lower, but expect some of the tech in the camera will keep the price up.

You may well be right. I see references to Canon’s mastery of market segmentation. So it wouldn’t be a surprise if I’m missing something.

I’m not a ‘the more MP the better’ type, but I do believe there is a trend to mirrorless flagships greater than the 20-24 MP range that has been in favor - with the Sony A1 as the best example (and with the Nikon Z9 now rumored at 45). I think the Sports segment will evolve to 30-50, and the Portrait segment will not be disappointed. Since I identify with the Wildlife segment, I will be a happy camper in this range. From a model production cost standpoint, why wouldn’t spanning multiple market segments be less costly?

As for the AF standard, my nominee would be the Sony A1 capable of 120 AF/AE calculations per second, up to the max 30fps bursts. That’s what fast sensor readout is for - with balanced implementation throughout the imagery pipeline - mirrorless lenses, mounts and cards capable of keeping up with this data readout rate. We know what the A1 AF system is capable of so comparing the R3/Z9 to it shouldn’t be that difficult.

 

[RichF]

You may well be right. I see references to Canon’s mastery of market segmentation. So it wouldn’t be a surprise if I’m missing something.

I’m not a ‘the more MP the better’ type, but I do believe there is a trend to mirrorless flagships greater than the 20-24 MP range that has been in favor - with the Sony A1 as the best example (and with the Nikon Z9 now rumored at 45). I think the Sports segment will evolve to 30-50, and the Portrait segment will not be disappointed. Since I identify with the Wildlife segment, I will be a happy camper in this range. From a model production cost standpoint, why wouldn’t spanning multiple market segments be less costly?

As for the AF standard, my nominee would be the Sony A1 capable of 120 AF/AE calculations per second, up to the max 30fps bursts. That’s what fast sensor readout is for - with balanced implementation throughout the imagery pipeline - mirrorless lenses, mounts and cards capable of keeping up with this data readout rate. We know what the A1 AF system is capable of so comparing the R3/Z9 to it shouldn’t be that difficult.

Market segmentation: the reason that there is Z6 and Z7, R5 and R6. D6 and 1Dx Miii. All serve specific need. Some people don't need 45-50 MP for facebook or the family album. Or they will trade resolution for low light, ...

 

[FB101]

Seems to me it is a direct competitor to Sony's A9II????

I don't think Canon cares about the A9ii to be honest. They just want to make sure that all the Pros using 1Dx mk2/3 have a place to go if they want mirrorless - and I can't see a professional happy with their 1Dx body having a second of hesitation to slide right into the R3. Canon's made it a n brainer to stay with Canon for their core Pro users.

 

[Rectory Photography]

I have owned both the Canon R5 and recently the Sony a1. I like both, but i think there are compromises with each, especially in terms of wildlife/bird photography..... The R5 has significantly superior animal/bird eye af to the Sony in my experience.....its a big enough difference that i miss shots on the Sony , particularly those needing quick aquisition or as i call them 'grab shots'...but those images end up being some of my best. As an example, i have yet to find a Sony setting that locks and stays on squirrels at close quarters where the Canon just finds the eyes and stays on them. I know that sounds like a small issue, but i have sold quite a few of those types of images ...An example below is a grab shot of a pheasant fighting a squirrel. I just pointed the Canon in the right direction and the af locked onto the birds eye before i would ever have had the time to do that in the past....The Canon gets them, whilst the Sony does not.

The problem with the Canon is frame rate. At 20fps the canon misses out on those extra images compared to the Sony, when it does lock on, and lacks a little of the resolution....but for what it does, its just more reliable in the field in terms of af performance, at least close up action which is my style of photography.

If i could combine the Sony speed and resolution with the Canon af.... it would be the best camera for my needs till technology improves again.

Both af systems struggle keeping up with tracking very fast movement at close range in a fixed frame....the af point gets left behind...Once technology means they can track across the frame at super fast speed the game will have moved forward significantly.

The R3 may have a smaller MP count , but thats not the main factor in my view to creating interesting images..... pure resolution is not the main priority..... its the story within the image, which often in wildlife terms comes at unexpected moments.... If you can't latch on to the animal or birds eye in time, you have a wonderful out of focus moment in lovely high resolution...... I would rather have something in focus at the lower MP size.

So, the R3, if it moves the auto focus performance forward compared to the R5, which i think is currently the best, will be of great interest....as is 30fps.

Of course If on the other hand Sony really improved the AF on the a1 with firmware updates, and it moved in line with, or improved on Canon i would be very interested......

Its difficult right now because things are evolving quickly and who knows what the future holds for each manufacturer.

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[abc123brian]

@ivor Thanks for sharing your experience with both systems and fantastic images!

 

[RichF]

I have owned both the Canon R5 and recently the Sony a1. I like both, but i think there are compromises with each, especially in terms of wildlife/bird photography..... The R5 has significantly superior animal/bird eye af to the Sony in my experience.....its a big enough difference that i miss shots on the Sony , particularly those needing quick aquisition or as i call them 'grab shots'...but those images end up being some of my best. As an example, i have yet to find a Sony setting that locks and stays on squirrels at close quarters where the Canon just finds the eyes and stays on them. I know that sounds like a small issue, but i have sold quite a few of those types of images ...An example below is a grab shot of a pheasant fighting a squirrel. I just pointed the Canon in the right direction and the af locked onto the birds eye before i would ever have had the time to do that in the past....The Canon gets them, whilst the Sony does not.

The problem with the Canon is frame rate. At 20fps the canon misses out on those extra images compared to the Sony, when it does lock on, and lacks a little of the resolution....but for what it does, its just more reliable in the field in terms of af performance, at least close up action which is my style of photography.

If i could combine the Sony speed and resolution with the Canon af.... it would be the best camera for my needs till technology improves again.

Both af systems struggle keeping up with tracking very fast movement at close range in a fixed frame....the af point gets left behind...Once technology means they can track across the frame at super fast speed the game will have moved forward significantly.

The R3 may have a smaller MP count , but thats not the main factor in my view to creating interesting images..... pure resolution is not the main priority..... its the story within the image, which often in wildlife terms comes at unexpected moments.... If you can't latch on to the animal or birds eye in time, you have a wonderful out of focus moment in lovely high resolution...... I would rather have something in focus at the lower MP size.

So, the R3, if it moves the auto focus performance forward compared to the R5, which i think is currently the best, will be of great interest....as is 30fps.

Of course If on the other hand Sony really improved the AF on the a1 with firmware updates, and it moved in line with, or improved on Canon i would be very interested......

Its difficult right now because things are evolving quickly and who knows what the future holds for each manufacturer.View attachment 23097View attachment 23098View attachment 23099

Fantastic images !!

 

[Roy]

While the internet seems to implode at the idea of a 24mp R3, this gives a pretty good look at the new Canon beast.

Actually 24mp isn’t what surprises me - it’s logical for the 1Dx series moving to mirrorless. But a dual card slot with SD card and CF express was unexpected, and so was the articulating screen.

I love the reliabilty of XQD/CFexpress cards and have a jar full of failed SD cards - The price should come down as they become more common...

 

[gardnergreg1]

Weighing in regarding the R5 vs A1. My experience with the R5 (own, so more experience) and the A1 (rental for a few days) is the same - R5 better eye focus and A1 better frame rate and less blackout. If the R3 provides a much better focus, frame rate, and is able to track quick movement then I will probably get one since I'm fine with 24MP under those circumstances. Certainly exciting to see the advancements potentially coming in quite a few cameras.

 

[Rectory Photography]

Weighing in regarding the R5 vs A1. My experience with the R5 (own, so more experience) and the A1 (rental for a few days) is the same - R5 better eye focus and A1 better frame rate and less blackout. If the R3 provides a much better focus, frame rate, and is able to track quick movement then I will probably get one since I'm fine with 24MP under those circumstances. Certainly exciting to see the advancements potentially coming in quite a few cameras.

Agree 100%

 

[Rectory Photography]

Fantastic images !!

Many thanks, appreciated...

 

[Rectory Photography]

@ivor Thanks for sharing your experience with both systems and fantastic images!

You are welcome, and much appreciated!!

 

[gardnergreg1]

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

Not a great image, but the R5 locked on in an instant - even in low light. I don't need the MP, but the higher frame rate and lack of viewfinder blackout along with any tracking improvements would be worth it.

 

[DavidT]

Peter had a good one this morning. I like their direction but at 24MP it doesn't interest me, nor did the a9.

 

[Rectory Photography]

View attachment 23236
Not a great image, but the R5 locked on in an instant - even in low light. I don't need the MP, but the higher frame rate and lack of viewfinder blackout along with any tracking improvements would be worth it.

I agree....I will wait for reviews, but i don't think 24mp would be too much of an issue. Many leading wildlife photographers use the 1DX and thats 24mp i think. Only time will tell as i've only ever had higher MP cameras, the D850 and R5 and i find cropping on those cameras useful, but i think speed and AF wins... for action photography at least.

 

[DavidT]

I have owned both the Canon R5 and recently the Sony a1. I like both, but i think there are compromises with each, especially in terms of wildlife/bird photography..... The R5 has significantly superior animal/bird eye af to the Sony in my experience.....its a big enough difference that i miss shots on the Sony , particularly those needing quick aquisition or as i call them 'grab shots'...but those images end up being some of my best. As an example, i have yet to find a Sony setting that locks and stays on squirrels at close quarters where the Canon just finds the eyes and stays on them. I know that sounds like a small issue, but i have sold quite a few of those types of images ...An example below is a grab shot of a pheasant fighting a squirrel. I just pointed the Canon in the right direction and the af locked onto the birds eye before i would ever have had the time to do that in the past....The Canon gets them, whilst the Sony does not.

The problem with the Canon is frame rate. At 20fps the canon misses out on those extra images compared to the Sony, when it does lock on, and lacks a little of the resolution....but for what it does, its just more reliable in the field in terms of af performance, at least close up action which is my style of photography.

If i could combine the Sony speed and resolution with the Canon af.... it would be the best camera for my needs till technology improves again.

Both af systems struggle keeping up with tracking very fast movement at close range in a fixed frame....the af point gets left behind...Once technology means they can track across the frame at super fast speed the game will have moved forward significantly.

The R3 may have a smaller MP count , but thats not the main factor in my view to creating interesting images..... pure resolution is not the main priority..... its the story within the image, which often in wildlife terms comes at unexpected moments.... If you can't latch on to the animal or birds eye in time, you have a wonderful out of focus moment in lovely high resolution...... I would rather have something in focus at the lower MP size.

So, the R3, if it moves the auto focus performance forward compared to the R5, which i think is currently the best, will be of great interest....as is 30fps.

Of course If on the other hand Sony really improved the AF on the a1 with firmware updates, and it moved in line with, or improved on Canon i would be very interested......

Its difficult right now because things are evolving quickly and who knows what the future holds for each manufacturer.View attachment 23097View attachment 23098View attachment 23099

Very nice! I love hearing from people who actually own both systems. I am curious have you tried the new firmware update from last month for the a1? I found the eye af improved.

 

[Craig42]

Not a great image....

I respectfully disagree. I think it is a great image.
It tells a story, has interesting subjects and color, and no distractions.

 

[FB101]

I agree....I will wait for reviews, but i don't think 24mp would be too much of an issue. Many leading wildlife photographers use the 1DX and thats 24mp i think. Only time will tell as i've only ever had higher MP cameras, the D850 and R5 and i find cropping on those cameras useful, but i think speed and AF wins... for action photography at least.

It all comes down to your stealth and approach technique - I suck at it so I need lots of MPx to crop into the animals I keep scaring away but you are correct, I see fabulous wildlife shots at 24MP (from others).

 

[Rectory Photography]

Very nice! I love hearing from people who actually own both systems. I am curious have you tried the new firmware update from last month for the a1? I found the eye af improved.

Hi, the Sony firnware was updated to the latest version before i used it, so my experiences are based on the latest version......It will be interesting to see what further improvements can be made, because the tech in that camera must allow for some real improvements i'm sure if they can tweak the software.