Alaska trips for Bald Eagles….What is the norm?

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Fishboy1952

Fishboy1952

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So… I’m interested in a Bald Eagle guided photography trip to Alaska, and have been researching trips to Homer and to Haines.

I contacted a guide that is located near me, that supports guided trips to Homer. I reached out to the individual and the leader discussed some of the aspects of the trip. The photography is done in a boat off of the Homer Spit, and entices the Bald Eagles by throwing herring into the water near the boat. That raised a red flag for me.

I know that Homer enacted a law prohibiting the “baiting” to attract eagles, after the passing of Ms. Keane (the Eagle Lady). So it would appear that this guide service is getting around that be being on a boat.

I bring this up as I have yet to participate in a guided trip such as this. My initial reaction is that this is simply baiting and something to avoid. But I don’t know if this is the norm for these trips in Alaska. I know that this can be a hot button, but I don’t know. So I bring this up here to ask individuals on the forum more experienced than myself. So is throwing herring (or other types of baiting) a typical practice or an outlier? Like I said, my initial reaction is to not use this guide service, but am I being too critical?
 
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It is baiting. However given that (so I've been told) the biggest concentration of eagles in Homer is at the town dump, and I've seen them hovering with the vultures at dumps in Florida, I have mixed feelings about its appropriateness.
 
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Fishboy1952 said:
So… I’m interested in a Bald Eagle guided photography trip to Alaska, and have been researching trips to Homer and to Haines.

I contacted a guide that is located near me, that supports guided trips to Homer. I reached out to the individual and the leader discussed some of the aspects of the trip. The photography is done in a boat off of the Homer Spit, and entices the Bald Eagles by throwing herring into the water near the boat. That raised a red flag for me.

I know that Homer enacted a law prohibiting the “baiting” to attract eagles, after the passing of Ms. Keane (the Eagle Lady). So it would appear that this guide service is getting around that be being on a boat.

I bring this up as I have yet to participate in a guided trip such as this. My initial reaction is that this is simply baiting and something to avoid. But I don’t know if this is the norm for these trips in Alaska. I know that this can be a hot button, but I don’t know. So I bring this up here to ask individuals on the forum more experienced than myself. So is throwing herring (or other types of baiting) a typical practice or an outlier? Like I said, my initial reaction is to not use this guide service, but am I being too critical?
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Doug, I appreciate your bringing this up. I have not been to Alaska, so I can not comment on the particular matter. From what I read before, some bird guides would throw fish with ballons in the belly to bait the eagles, with inflated ballons, the fish could not dive into the water, this way it's easier for the eagle to catch. So yeah, it's kind of frowned up.

Oliver
 
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My understanding is that feeding eagles is prohibited only in the town of Homer. But the boat groups go to secluded coves well out of town for feeding the birds and this is not illegal. Whether you feel this practice is right, wrong or just not for you is a different matter. But the feeding of the eagles is absolutely allowed in the locations it's done.
 
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My wife and I were in Alaska with another couple in 2018. We spent several days in the Homer area. I got some nice images of Eagles there without going on a tour or with any group, just driving along the road through the spit and around the bay. However, like all wildlife, sometimes they were where I could capture images and sometimes they were not.

A guided trip would definitely increase your odds and the classic "eagle snatching a fish from the water" shot probably would either require being on a guided trip or an incredible amount of good luck and being at the right place in the right time.

I, too, have mixed feelings about baiting. On the other hand, Homer is also a fishing port and I did see eagles flying around commercial fishing boats like they were gulls. I think the eagles in that area have been habituated to getting scraps from the fishing boats and would continue to do so even if guides stopped the practice.

I guess if I really wanted that "eagle's talons just breaking the water to catch a fish" photo and it was one of the objectives of my trip to Alaska, the guided tour is probably your best opportunity to capture that image.

Jeff
 
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Yes the boats are used due to the prohibition in the city of Homer. And with bald eagles removed from the endangered species list there is no federal prohibition. And no state prohibition either. So it is legal.

It's interesting that no one seemed to mind it when Jean was feeding the eagles hundreds of pounds of fish every day. Professional photographers from all over the world went and shot at her place. Apparently there's a difference in "feeding" versus "baiting". The guys in the boats are doing the same thing that Jean did so I guess they're feeding rather than baiting :rolleyes:

As I understand it the moral outrage over baiting is due to the idea that it alters the behavior of the baited animal. So much so that due to dependency or some other altered behavior their life is threatened. Eagles are the ultimate opportunists when it comes to finding something to eat. They hang around city dumps, fish cleaning stations at marinas during the summer, they follow fishing boats, raid dumpsters, etc, etc. There's no science supporting the baiting/feeding debate. It's purely an opinion driven argument. Without any hard science we have to fall back on moral arguments or common sense. Based on the latter I have a hard time seeing how deliberately feeding them is any different than those other behaviors. The moral argument is totally an individual choice.

At any rate, the trips in Homer are not illegal. You have to decide if it's immoral.

Homer and Haines are two completely different experiences and yield completely different types of images. There's no moral dilemma with Haines. Just birds feeding on a natural salmon run. But it's a lot colder :(

In the name of full disclosure I've not done the thing in Homer. Have seen plenty of photo/videos from those events. I have been to Haines multiple times and enjoy it immensely. Other than the PITA of getting there.
 
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To take a slightly different slant, is putting up a bird feeder (with seed) or a heated water bath in our backyard during the winter, baiting???

Why is providing seed to song birds okay but salmon (or herring) to eagles not?

Not to be nasty, argumentative, or otherwise obnoxious (though my wife often thinks I am), can someone explain what the difference is between feeding song birds seed vs feeding eagles herring/salmon (or even mice to owls)?
 
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RichF said:
To take a slightly different slant, is putting up a bird feeder (with seed) or a heated water bath in our backyard during the winter, baiting???

Why is providing seed to song birds okay but salmon (or herring) to eagles not?

Not to be nasty, argumentative, or otherwise obnoxious (though my wife often thinks I am), can someone explain what the difference is between feeding song birds seed vs feeding eagles herring/salmon (or even mice to owls)?
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I don't really think there is a difference. I brought this same line of reasoning up once on a Facebook Birders group and you would have thought I had just suggested their pet dog was ugly or something. Oh my the personal attacks.

Now, where I do draw the line is when it puts the creatures in danger. A couple years back, a "photo workshop" with a local "pro" was caught tying strings to pet store mice, turning them loose in a field and getting shots of raptors (mainly a visiting snowy owl) swooping in. Now, if those were locally caught wild mice I wouldn't have had as much of a problem but pet store mice escaping the tether risks bringing disease into the local rodent populations and thus causing significant harm to the local creatures that rely on the rodents to survive.

It is a touchy topic and I think it rally comes down to 2 points. 1) what is legal, and 2) what are a person's personal limits. On point 2, we're all different and one person may see something like throwing fish in the harbor to get a shot of an eagle as perfectly normal and one may see it as the unforgivable sin.

for the record, I have a heated bird bath (that is frequented by birds, squirrels, a raccoon or two and last night an opossum. I also feed birds and yes, I do sometimes take photos of birds sitting on branches in our yard waiting their turn at the feeder.

Jeff
[edit to correct typo]
 
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NorthernFocus said:
Yes the boats are used due to the prohibition in the city of Homer. And with bald eagles removed from the endangered species list there is no federal prohibition. And no state prohibition either. So it is legal.

It's interesting that no one seemed to mind it when Jean was feeding the eagles hundreds of pounds of fish every day. Professional photographers from all over the world went and shot at her place. Apparently there's a difference in "feeding" versus "baiting". The guys in the boats are doing the same thing that Jean did so I guess they're feeding rather than baiting :rolleyes:

As I understand it the moral outrage over baiting is due to the idea that it alters the behavior of the baited animal. So much so that due to dependency or some other altered behavior their life is threatened. Eagles are the ultimate opportunists when it comes to finding something to eat. They hang around city dumps, fish cleaning stations at marinas during the summer, they follow fishing boats, raid dumpsters, etc, etc. There's no science supporting the baiting/feeding debate. It's purely an opinion driven argument. Without any hard science we have to fall back on moral arguments or common sense. Based on the latter I have a hard time seeing how deliberately feeding them is any different than those other behaviors. The moral argument is totally an individual choice.

At any rate, the trips in Homer are not illegal. You have to decide if it's immoral.

Homer and Haines are two completely different experiences and yield completely different types of images. There's no moral dilemma with Haines. Just birds feeding on a natural salmon run. But it's a lot colder :(

In the name of full disclosure I've not done the thing in Homer. Have seen plenty of photo/videos from those events. I have been to Haines multiple times and enjoy it immensely. Other than the PITA of getting there.
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Thanks Dan. You and the others here have helped me a lot. I knew it wasn’t illegal to throw fish from boats, and you could definitely argue over if indeed there is a difference between guides throwing fish or Ms. Keene feeding. I believe there is a difference in intent but probably not much of a difference in the actual impact on the eagles. I had mixed feelings when I heard about it, so I wanted to find out if this is the norm at Homer. From what I can gather, my opinion is there are some guides that do attract eagles with fish, and probably some that don’t. So ultimately what do I feel comfortable with? Maybe just go to Haines and avoid the question altogether…LOL.
 
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jeffnles1 said:
I don't really think there is a difference. I brought this same line of reasoning up once on a Facebook Birders group and you would have thought I had just suggested their pet dog was ugly or something. Oh my the personal attacks.

Now, where I do draw the line is when it puts the creatures in danger. A couple years back, a "photo workshop" with a local "pro" was caught tying strings to pet store mice, turning them loose in a field and getting shots of raptors (mainly a visiting snowy owl) swooping in. Now, if those were locally caught wild mice I wouldn't have had as much of a problem but pet store mice escaping the weather risks bringing disease into the local rodent populations and thus causing significant harm to the local creatures that rely on the rodents to survive.

It is a touchy topic and I think it rally comes down to 2 points. 1) what is legal, and 2) what are a person's personal limits. On point 2, we're all different and one person may see something like throwing fish in the harbor to get a shot of an eagle as perfectly normal and one may see it as the unforgivable sin.

for the record, I have a heated bird bath (that is frequented by birds, squirrels, a raccoon or two and last night an opossum. I also feed birds and yes, I do sometimes take photos of birds sitting on branches in our yard waiting their turn at the feeder.

Jeff
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Thanks Jeff!
 
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Fishboy1952 said:
... So ultimately what do I feel comfortable with? Maybe just go to Haines and avoid the question altogether…LOL.
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I've been to Haines and spent four days at the Chilkat Bald Eagle Preserve in late November 2016 - see https://www.alaska.org/detail/alaska-chilkat-bald-eagle-preserve - it was a fantastic experience. The part of the preserve we hung out was an area that had a walkway along the river. At that time of year we could not get out onto the river. But we didn't need to. It was basically low thirties (F) every day with light to moderate snow which made it more appealing in my view. The only downside was that we had only about 6 hours max of shooting each day at that time of year. Used a tripod most the time. A fast 500mm lens or similar is what one needs there. There were other groups there but it was not crowded at all. Very manageable. I was part of a tour group that originated in Whitehorse, Yukon; we drove to Haines and stayed in town at a Best Western.

I'll not engage in the baiting debate.
 
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jeffnles1 said:
I don't really think there is a difference. I brought this same line of reasoning up once on a Facebook Birders group and you would have thought I had just suggested their pet dog was ugly or something. Oh my the personal attacks.

Now, where I do draw the line is when it puts the creatures in danger. A couple years back, a "photo workshop" with a local "pro" was caught tying strings to pet store mice, turning them loose in a field and getting shots of raptors (mainly a visiting snowy owl) swooping in. Now, if those were locally caught wild mice I wouldn't have had as much of a problem but pet store mice escaping the weather risks bringing disease into the local rodent populations and thus causing significant harm to the local creatures that rely on the rodents to survive.

It is a touchy topic and I think it rally comes down to 2 points. 1) what is legal, and 2) what are a person's personal limits. On point 2, we're all different and one person may see something like throwing fish in the harbor to get a shot of an eagle as perfectly normal and one may see it as the unforgivable sin.

for the record, I have a heated bird bath (that is frequented by birds, squirrels, a raccoon or two and last night an opossum. I also feed birds and yes, I do sometimes take photos of birds sitting on branches in our yard waiting their turn at the feeder.

Jeff
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Jeff,

I agree it is a personal choice. For some, baiting unspeakably evil, others just live with it. For some if the animal is alive is the key difference.
 
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The fishing docks in Valdez draw lots of eagles when the boats return. It’s more a symbiotic relationship than baiting there. You might call the chamber of commerce for details.
 
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JamesFarrell said:
I've been to Haines and spent four days at the Chilkat Bald Eagle Preserve in late November 2016 - see https://www.alaska.org/detail/alaska-chilkat-bald-eagle-preserve - it was a fantastic experience. The part of the preserve we hung out was an area that had a walkway along the river. At that time of year we could not get out onto the river. But we didn't need to. It was basically low thirties (F) every day with light to moderate snow which made it more appealing in my view. The only downside was that we had only about 6 hours max of shooting each day at that time of year. Used a tripod most the time. A fast 500mm lens or similar is what one needs there. There were other groups there but it was not crowded at all. Very manageable. I was part of a tour group that originated in Whitehorse, Yukon; we drove to Haines and stayed in town at a Best Western.

I'll not engage in the baiting debate.
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Jim….. thanks for the Haines information. I appreciate it. And as for not engaging in the debate……you are a wise man!
 
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Fishboy1952 said:
Thanks Gayle!
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I changed my post a bit because I didn't want folks to think that these types of discussions shouldn't happen. I think they are important. I just came back from the Pantanal, where to my surprise, they were baiting the kingfishers, hawks and storks, and the ocelot. None of it was live bait, but it's hard for me to justify. That's a personal opinion.

I also wanted to mention that you as the photographer wouldn't get in trouble, only the person actually throwing the bait.
 
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NorthernFocus said:
Yes the boats are used due to the prohibition in the city of Homer. And with bald eagles removed from the endangered species list there is no federal prohibition. And no state prohibition either. So it is legal.

It's interesting that no one seemed to mind it when Jean was feeding the eagles hundreds of pounds of fish every day. Professional photographers from all over the world went and shot at her place. Apparently there's a difference in "feeding" versus "baiting". The guys in the boats are doing the same thing that Jean did so I guess they're feeding rather than baiting :rolleyes:

As I understand it the moral outrage over baiting is due to the idea that it alters the behavior of the baited animal. So much so that due to dependency or some other altered behavior their life is threatened. Eagles are the ultimate opportunists when it comes to finding something to eat. They hang around city dumps, fish cleaning stations at marinas during the summer, they follow fishing boats, raid dumpsters, etc, etc. There's no science supporting the baiting/feeding debate. It's purely an opinion driven argument. Without any hard science we have to fall back on moral arguments or common sense. Based on the latter I have a hard time seeing how deliberately feeding them is any different than those other behaviors. The moral argument is totally an individual choice.

At any rate, the trips in Homer are not illegal. You have to decide if it's immoral.

Homer and Haines are two completely different experiences and yield completely different types of images. There's no moral dilemma with Haines. Just birds feeding on a natural salmon run. But it's a lot colder :(

In the name of full disclosure I've not done the thing in Homer. Have seen plenty of photo/videos from those events. I have been to Haines multiple times and enjoy it immensely. Other than the PITA of getting there.
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Actually, it's a misdemeanor to feed the wildlife in Alaska.
 
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People first were attracted to Homer to photograph the eagles thanks to the efforts of one woman who would collect scraps from the processing plants and then toss them outside her home. She was still doing this in 1991 when I visited the area.

There are hundreds of eagles on the river a short distance outside of town and one can either rent a car in Anchorage and drive down as I have done, or you could fly from Anchorage to Homer and rent a car there. No real need for a guide.

Closer to home are the numerous bald eagles found along the Skagit River from British Columbia to it delta in Puget Sound. The midwinter run of Chum Salmon attracts the largest concentration of bald eagles in the lower 48 states from as far away as Alaska and Montana. The Chum start swimming up the river to spawn in late November and the eagles arrive soon after. The numbers of both species along the river peak in mid-January.
 
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State law makes it a misdemeanor to feed the wildlife. That includes eagles.

My understanding is that feeding eagles is prohibited only in the town of Homer. But the boat groups go to secluded coves well out of town for feeding the birds and this is not illegal. Whether you feel this practice is right, wrong or just not for you is a different matter. But the feeding of the eagles is absolutely allowed in the locations it's do
 
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Gayle said:
State law makes it a misdemeanor to feed the wildlife. That includes eagles.
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If you search State law you'll find that it only prohibits feeding "game animals" which are actually listed in the code. There is no reference to any type of birds including eagles. Homer and Ketchikan have passed municipal ordinances specifically because there are no other legal prohibitions to feeding the eagles. Where the boats that run out of Homer feed the birds is outside the city limits but still within water covered by state law and patrolled by the troopers. Which is the only reason they are allowed to do it.
 
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Gayle said:
State law makes it a misdemeanor to feed the wildlife. That includes eagles.

My understanding is that feeding eagles is prohibited only in the town of Homer. But the boat groups go to secluded coves well out of town for feeding the birds and this is not illegal. Whether you feel this practice is right, wrong or just not for you is a different matter. But the feeding of the eagles is absolutely allowed in the locations it's do
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Really? Can you please provide a link to the law you reference so we can read it for ourselves........................
 
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I'm have enjoyed seeing eagles since I was a child and saw the movie The Legend of the Boy and the Eagle.

Unfortunately, I saw them very infrequently back then, mostly in captivity as a bird with an injury that kept them from being released back into the wild. Fortunately, they are much more frequently seen these days.

Jack E. Davis recently authored a book The Bald Eagle The Improbable Jopurney of America's Bird. PBS taped a video of Davis out with a photo guide that is supposed to air this March. I'm currently reading the book and plan to watch the show when it airs. It never hurts to learn more about your photographic subjects.
 
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