Best "budget" transition to FX (camera body)

[Wade Abadie]

Currently I own/shoot with 2 Nikon DX format camera bodies (D500 & D7500). They serve me well and I love shooting with them. But I have thrown around the idea of getting an FX body as well. I often shoot in low light (wooded areas) and could use a little boost in ISO performance. I can look at spec sheets all day long, but sometimes it's better to get a real world review from folks who actually use the equipment for what I do. I shoot wildlife 99% of the time.

The top-end bodies like the D5 and D6 are out of the question due to price. I'm not opposed to purchasing used either. My budget would be something under $2,500.

As of right now, the bodies I am considering are:

- D850 (used)
- D4s (used)
- D780

After using the D500 so much with it's 10 fps frame-rate, it will be hard to go down to 7 fps on the D850 and D780....but not a deal-killer. The D4s has 11 fps, which is awesome....but I'm curious how it measures up to the other two in terms of low-light performance (how it renders high ISO). I'm really just trying to obtain the best overall image quality possible, for the lowest price. Frame rate is secondary.

What's your advice guys? Anything I'm missing here? Are there any other models to consider?

 

[Anjin San]

I have considered FX several times myself (D7500 user)…when I did I decided that the D780 would be the best solution (not interested in used) but then I considered a couple other things. First…unless I also got new glass I would lose the DX focal length multiplication and since I mostly do wildlife that's hard to do, and the 780 doesn't have enough MP to overcome the loss of effective lens reach. At the same time…I think it's pretty obvious that mirrorless is the future for the majority of us…but Nikon's offerings haven't caught up yet. I'm considering several ideas at this point…first is to get the Z50 kit to replace my wife's aging D7100, the 2 lens kit will give her much more flexibility than her current single 15-55 lens does with no real weight penalty. That way I can stick a toe into the mirrorless lake and see. Second is to wait for the release of the Z6s and Z7s to see if the autofocus speed issues are resolved so that wildlife action gets more keepers. If they do…I'll likely upgrade myself to one of those…but again only the Z7 would counterbalance the loss of effective lens reach. So…in that case I'll have to either keep the D7500 DX for higher light levels and distant wildlife or get the Z7…my current idea is to go with the more expensive Z7s assuming it doesn't have drawbacks in AF speed, action following, or frame rate compared to the 6.

I could afford a new D850…but the weight is an issue as well as I would really need to drop another $10K minimum on high quality fast glass to really make maximum use of it's capabilities…and the cost just doesn't make sense for me.

 

[Rassie]

If you have to choose between the three cameras you mentioned I'd go for the D850 for one main reason: You lose a lot of reach when you go from DX to FX. The high resolution of the D850 allows you to crop down to equivalent FOV as the DX cameras while ending up with almost the same resolution as the DX cameras. When you've cropped the lower res images of the D4S and D780 down to DX size you end up with half the resolution or less than the DX cameras. Think in terms of potential print size here.

Here's something to remember, though. Steve has said in these forums that when you crop a D850 image down to DX size the noisiness or dynamic range becomes the same as that of the D500 or D7500. So if you intend to crop, you may just as well stay with what you have.

I have the same dilemma. I used the D7000 series DX cameras for years and my current model is the D7500. At the beginning of this year I bought the Z6, which has the same dynamic range (and probably the same sensor) as the D780. I can see the difference in image quality of the Z6 full frame images compared to those from the D7500. The Z6 images are just cleaner and smoother overall with smoother transitions between tones. After using the Z6 extensively for wildlife I am clear on its limitations. It is my first choice for slow-moving wildlife that is large enough or near enough so that I don't need to crop a lot. For smaller, more distant and fast-moving animals and birds the D7500 leaves the Z6 in the dust.

You already have the best pro-grade DX camera in Nikon's lineup, and it's more capable than the D4S, D780 or the D850 for wildlife. The only way you will get better IQ from any of the full frame cameras is if you don't need to crop significantly.

 

[Rassie]

I have considered FX several times myself (D7500 user)…when I did I decided that the D780 would be the best solution (not interested in used) but then I considered a couple other things. First…unless I also got new glass I would lose the DX focal length multiplication and since I mostly do wildlife that's hard to do, and the 780 doesn't have enough MP to overcome the loss of effective lens reach. At the same time…I think it's pretty obvious that mirrorless is the future for the majority of us…but Nikon's offerings haven't caught up yet. I'm considering several ideas at this point…first is to get the Z50 kit to replace my wife's aging D7100, the 2 lens kit will give her much more flexibility than her current single 15-55 lens does with no real weight penalty. That way I can stick a toe into the mirrorless lake and see. Second is to wait for the release of the Z6s and Z7s to see if the autofocus speed issues are resolved so that wildlife action gets more keepers. If they do…I'll likely upgrade myself to one of those…but again only the Z7 would counterbalance the loss of effective lens reach. So…in that case I'll have to either keep the D7500 DX for higher light levels and distant wildlife or get the Z7…my current idea is to go with the more expensive Z7s assuming it doesn't have drawbacks in AF speed, action following, or frame rate compared to the 6.

I could afford a new D850…but the weight is an issue as well as I would really need to drop another $10K minimum on high quality fast glass to really make maximum use of it's capabilities…and the cost just doesn't make sense for me.

Agreed.

 

[Yezdi]

If you have to choose between the three cameras you mentioned I'd go for the D850 for one main reason: You lose a lot of reach when you go from DX to FX. The high resolution of the D850 allows you to crop down to equivalent FOV as the DX cameras while ending up with almost the same resolution as the DX cameras. When you've cropped the lower res images of the D4S and D780 down to DX size you end up with half the resolution or less than the DX cameras. Think in terms of potential print size here.

Here's something to remember, though. Steve has said in these forums that when you crop a D850 image down to DX size the noisiness or dynamic range becomes the same as that of the D500 or D7500. So if you intend to crop, you may just as well stay with what you have.

I have the same dilemma. I used the D7000 series DX cameras for years and my current model is the D7500. At the beginning of this year I bought the Z6, which has the same dynamic range (and probably the same sensor) as the D780. I can see the difference in image quality of the Z6 full frame images compared to those from the D7500. The Z6 images are just cleaner and smoother overall with smoother transitions between tones. After using the Z6 extensively for wildlife I am clear on its limitations. It is my first choice for slow-moving wildlife that is large enough or near enough so that I don't need to crop a lot. For smaller, more distant and fast-moving animals and birds the D7500 leaves the Z6 in the dust.

You already have the best pro-grade DX camera in Nikon's lineup, and it's more capable than the D4S, D780 or the D850 for wildlife. The only way you will get better IQ from any of the full frame cameras is if you don't need to crop significantly.

I totally agree with Rassie's comments and advice.

 

[Graham Clark]

Echoing what the other guys have said that if reach is an issue the D500 is the best solution also noted in your post that you'd be keeping the D500, the FX body being an addition.

Given your comments regarding low light shooting I'd certainly consider the D4S, high ISO/low light capabilities are far better than the D850 down to those big photo sites. Unless printing up to bill board size do you really need north of 40MP? I worked with the D4S for years before the D5 came along and actually think the D4S produced better rendered SOOC images

Not used the D780 so can't comment on its performance.

 

[Wade Abadie]

Thanks for the input so far guys. I guess it truly is hard to beat the D500 for wildlife....perhaps I will just stick with what I have for now. At least until I hit the lottery and can afford to buy a D6 + 600mm F/4 FL ED