Dedicated sharpen program advice please

[Squawk]

Hello lovely people. I’ve been thinking about a dedicated sharpen program and wondered about your experience using Topaz as the benchmark. I’m not trying to rescue junk, but more trying to recover detail from heat haze and just soft photos that are demanding a bit more than my main program can handle. I’ve tried Topaz and found that while it can do wonderful things, particularly with junk, it can’t really get close to a photo taken in good conditions. There’s a couple of programs I’ve seen that seem to have potential – Franzis’s Sharpen Projects and Focus Magic and less promising looking stuff like SmartDeblur. I know I’m not getting Topaz, either sharpen or denoise but if anyone has tried something and found it better it would be really helpful. I give any program 2 days of intensive workout to understand what it does and how it works and I’d rather not waste time. I suspect I should just concentrate on getting the subject/moment/time right and forgetting any magic bullet.

 

[gordon_g]

I have to say I'm a little surprised by the results you have gotten from topaz as I've very seldom needed anything else for outstanding results.

Perhaps you might share your Post Processing steps to see if maybe there is something that could be tweaked to give you better results? Also Posting something that you are trying to to improve might be useful as well, I say this because what you would say is a touch soft someone else might think it not worth the effort. (posting an example would provide a base from which to work)
I've have had very good results with Noiseware as well but only on some images. Like everything there is no magic fix, However as stated in your last sentence there is nothing better than getting things right from the get go. As for heat Haze or Heat blur there really is nothing in post you can do to recover this as there is no usable data to recover. The better option IMHO is to get closer to minimize its effects. Hope this helps

 

[Squawk]

Thanks Gordon. What you say makes sense. Getting closer isn’t always an option depending on subject size and the off road policy of the area you’re in, but definitely good advice. I found with Topaz on the machine Capture One was having some unusual behaviour using short cut keys so it was deleted and unfortunately most of the results went with it. I did find one survivor and these are the results showing the original unprocessed, the Capture One processed result and the Topaz result. Topaz was run on an unprocessed unsharpened TIF. The problem is on the DoF in this case. I was on the edge of all the settings and was too tight on f4. I was down to 1/640 and ISO 1100 so struggling. The adults face is fine but the pup spoils the image. In C1 I masked the pups face and increased the sharpening radius to 1.4 but I think it shows. Looking at the exported images it’s not really showing the details properly but gives some idea.
Original

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C1 processed

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Topaz without further processing

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I hope I’m not being pedantic. And thanks for the help.

 

[gordon_g]

Hi Peter,
No worries on being Pedantic. Couple things not sure why the topaz Image is so much lighter that the original... 2nd I took your original image and ran it though Topaz... Set on Focus not sharpen Brought slider down. Reduced Noise slider by half. I then created a 2nd layer and masked out (in Topaz) the adult and ran this image though focus and increased that slider by 5 over the adult, again brought the noise down and this is the image in topaz in roughly 5 minutes. Could use a touch more tweaking but I think it looks better then the C1(I agree with your statement it think it shows) image and much better than both the original and your Topaz image. But you tell me these could be tweaked more or less sharpening but to me it looks Close.

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[Squawk]

Thanks Gordon. Certainly much better and working with little jpegs so not really fair. I noticed the lightness in the Topaz pic but didn't figure out why. Just one bit I don't understand on the 2nd pass - I understand you masked out the adult, but then say increased the slider by 5 and ran over the adult. I think it's a first pass over the whole picture and a second over the pup only or am I on the wrong track?
Also interesting that the contrast has increased.

 

[gordon_g]

Miss spoke... meant to say+5 on the kid ... I only ran the focus adjustment once for each. I’ve seen no difference when Using different file sizes. I don’t really see a contrast change but it could be There.

 

[Squawk]

Perfect, thanks. I can see where you're coming from. Had to clarify as I've sometimes made an assumption only to discover I've been standing on my head and the world really is the other way around. I'll download it again and see if I can learn to love it.

 

[Callie]

Peter, 2nd image very nicely done. Do not use Topaz. Actually, I virtually do not sharpen at all. NIk has a sharpen filter. I use Vivesa to bring up detail and tune down BG. If I sharpen, I do it lastly and use other, high pass with small radius, in B&W then change blending mode to overlay.
What I found, is if you adjust the brightness/contrast on a bit light image like your #3. it pops.

 

[Squawk]

Peter, 2nd image very nicely done. Do not use Topaz. Actually, I virtually do not sharpen at all. NIk has a sharpen filter. I use Vivesa to bring up detail and tune down BG. If I sharpen, I do it lastly and use other, high pass with small radius, in B&W then change blending mode to overlay.
What I found, is if you adjust the brightness/contrast on a bit light image like your #3. it pops.

Thanks Callie. I've got Nik but never tried that side so I'll give that a go. I'm all at sea on this issue so I'll keep plugging away. On C1 there's 3 sharpening stages. 1st in the lens tab that's a good start, then what they call creative that I tone down and lastly output that I generally ignore. I'm like you and generally don't like the result. I do wish I'd stop making dumb mistakes and I'm still inclined to think I'm going to be better in the long run just working harder on the capture. Mind you, after 40 years on and off I'm running out of time.

 

[Callie]

Thanks Callie. I've got Nik but never tried that side so I'll give that a go. I'm all at sea on this issue so I'll keep plugging away. On C1 there's 3 sharpening stages. 1st in the lens tab that's a good start, then what they call creative that I tone down and lastly output that I generally ignore. I'm like you and generally don't like the result. I do wish I'd stop making dumb mistakes and I'm still inclined to think I'm going to be better in the long run just working harder on the capture. Mind you, after 40 years on and off I'm running out of time.

Peter, There are some excellent tuts on sharpening - PTC, Piximperfect and Blake Rudis to name three. These guys are great in what they do, there are just so many ways to do it. Hope you strike the jackpot on your PP methodology!

 

[Calson]

Often what seems to be a lack of sharpness in an image is actually a lack of contrast. Your mention of haze implies a lack of contrast with the available light. Noise reduction is but one option and in particular with Topaz Labs I have used their other applications more than their excellent Denoise app.

Topaz has a new Adjust AI that would be worth a try and is similar to some of the functions in Lightroom CC. But with any evaluation I will take images that provide enough tonal range and detail to use for testing. I will make 4x5 inch size images using each application I am evaluating and then create a single 8x10 inch print with these in each quadrant. I see more differences in the ability of the NR applications ability to preserve tonal range than in details preservation. Whether it is a person's face or the neck of an adult sea lion, the tonal compression from the use of some NR applications is very noticeable and so one might as well be working with 8-bit JPG files.

It takes me roughly an hour to download and go through this process and produce the test print and it is time well spent. I prefer to look at my images with my own eyes and make my own determination as to the strengths and weaknesses of various applications. I also evaluate how effective the Auto mode is with each as well as which ones I can tweak and get the best results.

 

[Krish]

Hello lovely people. I’ve been thinking about a dedicated sharpen program and wondered about your experience using Topaz as the benchmark. I’m not trying to rescue junk, but more trying to recover detail from heat haze and just soft photos that are demanding a bit more than my main program can handle. I’ve tried Topaz and found that while it can do wonderful things, particularly with junk, it can’t really get close to a photo taken in good conditions. There’s a couple of programs I’ve seen that seem to have potential – Franzis’s Sharpen Projects and Focus Magic and less promising looking stuff like SmartDeblur. I know I’m not getting Topaz, either sharpen or denoise but if anyone has tried something and found it better it would be really helpful. I give any program 2 days of intensive workout to understand what it does and how it works and I’d rather not waste time. I suspect I should just concentrate on getting the subject/moment/time right and forgetting any magic bullet.

Have you tried NBP Ultrasharp by Nino Batista? It downloads as plug-in for Photoshop. I have been using it for a few weeks now and I'll tell you (for me) it beats the sharpen panel integral to photoshop. Here's a link:

NBP Ultrasharp for Photoshop

Nino Batista

ninobatista.zenfolio.com

This a picture I used it on: Indian Bush Lark

 

[Squawk]

Have you tried NBP Ultrasharp by Nino Batista? It downloads as plug-in for Photoshop. I have been using it for a few weeks now and I'll tell you (for me) it beats the sharpen panel integral to photoshop. Here's a link:

NBP Ultrasharp for Photoshop

Nino Batista

ninobatista.zenfolio.com

This a picture I used it on: Indian Bush Lark

Thanks for this. I'm a Capture One user so I'll check if they've done a plug in for that. Adobe worried me by their assurances being discarded and as we invest huge amounts of time in learning and then in organising and processing I decided to jump ship before I lost control of my edits.

 

[Warren D]

I use an older stand-alone version of Photoshop for most sharpening. If that isn't to my liking I'll try either NIK or Topaz Sharpe AI. Regardless of the software, it's important to learn the tool as the defaults rarely give the best results. The term best is subjective, we all have different opinions of what looks good.

 

[birdied]

I use Topaz Denoise, but mainly use Topaz AI Clear in the DeNoise Program.

I ran this through Topaz AI Clear Then , I used Focus Magic on the eye of the kid.

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I then used OnOne Effects 10, Darken the Highlights , added contrast , and darkened mid tone contrast

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[Squawk]

I use Topaz Denoise, but mainly use Topaz AI Clear in the DeNoise Program.

I ran this through Topaz AI Clear Then , I used Focus Magic on the eye of the kid.

View attachment 7879




I then used OnOne Effects 10, Darken the Highlights , added contrast , and darkened mid tone contrast

View attachment 7880

Thanks. Everyone seems to like Topaz a lot. Perhaps I'll give it another chance.

 

[Oosty]

I bought Steve's Noise Reduction and Video Workshop and his sharpening Windows Action was included. It works on my PS Elements 12 and I find it excellent. I sometimes sharpen portions of an image in PL3 using local adjustments and these do not show oversharpening artifacts after using Steve's action.

For $15 this is a real bargain and he takes you through all the stuff we've been discussing here. Really worthwhile purchase.

 

[Squawk]

I bought Steve's Noise Reduction and Video Workshop and his sharpening Windows Action was included. It works on my PS Elements 12 and I find it excellent. I sometimes sharpen portions of an image in PL3 using local adjustments and these do not show oversharpening artifacts after using Steve's action.

For $15 this is a real bargain and he takes you through all the stuff we've been discussing here. Really worthwhile purchase.

Thanks. I'd missed that one.

 

[Steve]

Thanks. I'd missed that one.

Not to push you into the course, but it also includes a segment in the latter part that demonstrates how to sharpen without increasing noise. It can be handy sometimes for higher ISO images. Also, much of that course (the Photoshop parts) can be adapted to work with Topaz AI.

 

[Squawk]

Not to push you into the course, but it also includes a segment in the latter part that demonstrates how to sharpen without increasing noise. It can be handy sometimes for higher ISO images. Also, much of that course (the Photoshop parts) can be adapted to work with Topaz AI.

Go on Steve, push without qualms. At the moment I'm a dedicated Capture One user so can you give the nod that you're being fairly generic in your ideas rather than too Adobe centric. From what I've seen you're more about principles and why rather than push this and prod that.

 

[Steve]

Go on Steve, push without qualms. At the moment I'm a dedicated Capture One user so can you give the nod that you're being fairly generic in your ideas rather than too Adobe centric. From what I've seen you're more about principles and why rather than push this and prod that.

Ahh - yeah, not sure how well the course translates to Capture One. The noise reduction course is 100% dependent on Lightroom and Photoshop. There are some general tips in there too, but not worth the price IMO if you don't have Lightroom or at least Photoshop (it works with Photoshop and ACR).