Dilemma with the Z6ii and Z7ii

[sh1209]

I have had both generations of the Z6&7 and for 85% of what I do the generation 2 bodies are great. The files the cameras produce are great. Having said that, I'm beyond disappointed that there's been no significant firmware updates to these bodies. I guess my question to Nikon would be, why add a second processor to these bodies and not utilize its capabilities? I don't for a minute believe the Expeed 7 processor is vastly superior to having two exceed 6 processors. I have pondered the Z9 and I am considering buying one but is it also going to be hindered with half baked software? Nikon is all I've shot with excluding a couple cameras from other manufacturers I tried briefly. I feel let down honestly by having two bodies and a slew of lenses that aren't being fully utilized simply by software limitations. I really don't want to switch brands because I honestly don't want to take the financial hit. Going back to the Z9, what honestly would I be gaining? The files are going to be 95% the same as the Z7ii, obviously with better auto focus. I have never been fond of a grip but did like the feel of a D5 since it was integrated. I would prefer having the Z9 capabilities in the Z7ii size and weight. I feel like all manufactures are going backwards with mirrorless size and weight. I suppose at the end of the day, its my fault for buying a camera and hoping its capabilities would improve with firmware updates. I suppose this is more of a rant than anything but I'm curious if anyone else feels the same?

 

[John Navitsky]

I think we put ourselves in a hard spot when we buy a camera on self imposed expectations about improvements that might be added later to a camera beyond what the manufacture actually announced.

Like you, I have hoped for substantial AF performance updates to the "ii" cameras, but I also understand nobody has promised anything in this regard. Also, I think there the recent update to the original Z6 and Z7 suggest there may still be hope for future updates. That said, there very well could not, so I think "ii" owners are best if they can achieve a bit of Zen where they are OK either way (or move on).

In terms of the Z9, it's been plainly said that the Expeed 7 is 10-12X faster than the two Expeed 6s in the "ii" bodies. I don't see any reason to doubt that claim, especially from a manufacture who doesn't make a lot of claims.

I don't see any reason to think the Z9 will perform poorly or be problematic. All the reports from early users of the Z9 have been extremely positive. I'm sure there will be cases where other cameras do a given thing slightly better or slightly worse, and maybe it'll have a few quirks, but that's a normal situation for any camera model. And despite wanting more from the current Z cameras in terms of AF performance, it's not like the firmware was flakey in any way, as far as I know. So I don't think I'd be particularly worried about "half baked" firmware.

I think the Z9 will largely be what people say it is. Basically a mirrorless D6+.

I feel your pain. I, too, hoped Nikon would beef up the AF performance in the Z6ii through a firmware update. But I also try to keep my expectations in check since nothing was ever promised.

 

[MartyD]

I am being optimistic in that we will see a firmware 2.0 in the next few weeks. I don't believe the performance improvements that we saw in going from the Z6 to the dual processor Z6ii take advantage of the second processor. My thinking is that programming resources at Nikon have been directed toward the Z9 firmware and new focusing algorithms and then these will trimmed to see what will perform in the Ziis. I also think that Nikon does not want to steal any thunder from the Z9 at this point and then need it to be a huge success. After the Z9 ships I think we will quietly see new firmware released for the Ziis. Now do I have anything besides my own optimism? No!

I had the Z6 and then actually used Nikon's trade up program to trade it for a Z6ii. I prefer a grip in some situations and like using eye AF in video. I considered the Z9 but as one of my college computer instructors used to say it would be like using a "Mack truck when a bicycle would do" for my shooting. I too am invested in Nikon and have been shooting with Nikon since 1981 and don't see myself ever changing.

 

[sh1209]

I think we put ourselves in a hard spot when we buy a camera on self imposed expectations about improvements that might be added later to a camera beyond what the manufacture actually announced.

Like you, I have hoped for substantial AF performance updates to the "ii" cameras, but I also understand nobody has promised anything in this regard. Also, I think there the recent update to the original Z6 and Z7 suggest there may still be hope for future updates. That said, there very well could not, so I think "ii" owners are best if they can achieve a bit of Zen where they are OK either way (or move on).

In terms of the Z9, it's been plainly said that the Expeed 7 is 10-12X faster than the two Expeed 6s in the "ii" bodies. I don't see any reason to doubt that claim, especially from a manufacture who doesn't make a lot of claims.

I don't see any reason to think the Z9 will perform poorly or be problematic. All the reports from early users of the Z9 have been extremely positive. I'm sure there will be cases where other cameras do a given thing slightly better or slightly worse, and maybe it'll have a few quirks, but that's a normal situation for any camera model. And despite wanting more from the current Z cameras in terms of AF performance, it's not like the firmware was flakey in any way, as far as I know. So I don't think I'd be particularly worried about "half baked" firmware.

I think the Z9 will largely be what people say it is. Basically a mirrorless D6+.

I feel your pain. I, too, hoped Nikon would beef up the AF performance in the Z6ii through a firmware update. But I also try to keep my expectations in check since nothing was ever promised.

Yeah its disappointing but like you said, we weren't promised anything. I'm sure the value will plummet on the gen 2 bodies once the Z9 is released. I'm just really not sure what to do. I'd like to have the Z9 performance in a body this size.

 

[sh1209]

I am being optimistic in that we will see a firmware 2.0 in the next few weeks. I don't believe the performance improvements that we saw in going from the Z6 to the dual processor Z6ii take advantage of the second processor. My thinking is that programming resources at Nikon have been directed toward the Z9 firmware and new focusing algorithms and then these will trimmed to see what will perform in the Ziis. I also think that Nikon does not want to steal any thunder from the Z9 at this point and then need it to be a huge success. After the Z9 ships I think we will quietly see new firmware released for the Ziis. Now do I have anything besides my own optimism? No!

I had the Z6 and then actually used Nikon's trade up program to trade it for a Z6ii. I prefer a grip in some situations and like using eye AF in video. I considered the Z9 but as one of my college computer instructors used to say it would be like using a "Mack truck when a bicycle would do" for my shooting. I too am invested in Nikon and have been shooting with Nikon since 1981 and don't see myself ever changing.

I feel your pain with being greatly invested in Nikon and this is honestly the first time I've ever felt let down and perhaps its just perception or having high hopes for something that should be. I have bilateral arm issues so weight savings is the main reason for migrating from a D850 and D750 to the Z bodies. The ergonomics and picture quality form the Z bodies is phenomenal. I need to try to steal some of your optimism LOL!

 

[NWGuy]

From a marketing standpoint, I'd assume that Nikon understands that they will sell a lot more Z6ii and Z7ii models than Z9's based on cost alone. Thus, hopefully, continuing to support and improve what the Z6-7 lines can offer. The majority of photographers don't need or can take advantage of what the Z9 offers, although the FOMO with this camera has been huge. For most enthusiasts, the Z6 and 7 lines will be more than adequate for their/our needs. Still, some firmware improvements in AF would be nice.

 

[NorthernFocus]

Yeah its disappointing but like you said, we weren't promised anything. I'm sure the value will plummet on the gen 2 bodies once the Z9 is released. I'm just really not sure what to do. I'd like to have the Z9 performance in a body this size.

That will likely happen but a couple of camera generations down the road(i.e.3-6 years). That's the normal pattern. For those of us who are financially constrained patience is certainly a virtue.

 

[sid_19911991]

The Z6 ii/Z7 ii updates are coming for sure. If you shoot slow moving subjects, it doesn't get much better than Z6 ii/Z7 ii.

While the updates are on thier way, you could focus on composition & different lenses.

Heng in there bud, we have all been there.

 

[bleirer]

There must be updates in the future. Canon has done theirs, so Nikon can't be far behind.

 

[abc123brian]

Having both a Z7 and Z7ii, it does seem like the recent firmware update for the Z7 has brought it up to the same level of AF as the Z7ii. I haven’t done any real side by side comparisons, but just using the two cameras at different times it seems like the Z7 might be better at finding and locking onto the eye of people than the Z7ii in low light.

I would be shocked if Nikon does not release a big firmware update for the gen II bodies. I had hoped to have seen it by now as well, but have a few thoughts on why it may be delayed until next year. First is that they have been working on making sure the Z9 meets or exceeds expectations and might have some internal resource constraints on getting it ready for the gen ii cameras. Secondly, if they released 3D tracking and other subject tracking for the gen ii cameras prior to the release of the Z9, it would take away some of the excitement and discussion around the Z9, possibly reduce preorders if some who ordered receive the firmware update and say this is good enough for me, and then there will be the YouTubers that will compare the updated Z7ii to the A1 and say Nikon just cannot keep up and are doomed which could deter some people from buying a Z9 thinking they are still behind.

Nikon released a minor update to provide support for the new lenses and FTZ so I doubt we will see an update until after those have been shipping. My guess is we will see the update around February. This gives the Z9 a chance to shine for a month or two before the firmware update.

 

[Ductape]

I have not given up hope on the ZII updates. I felt the recent original Z updates were a teaser letting us ZII users know there is something on the back burner waiting for after the Z9 hype to settle down. But then, I am a dreamer. Time will tell.

 

[sh1209]

That will likely happen but a couple of camera generations down the road(i.e.3-6 years). That's the normal pattern. For those of us who are financially constrained patience is certainly a virtue.

I agree with your statement about patience as well as the financial constraint. I would definitely have to say bye to one of my current bodies to get the Z9. I'm really rooting for Nikon and want them to succeed for many reasons. I could certainly offload my Nikon gear and switch brands but the thought of that literally makes me sick LOL. I am a creature of habit, which makes a major change like that difficult. I can perform 95% of functions without even looking at this point as well as feel right at home anywhere within Nikons menus. That is one of the factors that creates the most apprehension with switching brands. I called B&H this morning and was told even currently if I pre ordered it would be shipped in the first batch. I wasn't told how many spots were left but I think Nikon is going to try and make this rollout successful.

 

[sh1209]

I have not given up hope on the ZII updates. I felt the recent original Z updates were a teaser letting us ZII users know there is something on the back burner waiting for after the Z9 hype to settle down. But then, I am a dreamer. Time will tell.

I hope you're right for sure. I sorta feel like it's like driving a car with the brake applied at this point. I am certain there's more potential within these cameras.

 

[Bill T]

One has to think that it would not be too smart for Nikon to drop a firmware update for the Z6ii/Z7ii in advance of getting the Z9 into people's hands. Any significant upgrade to the Z6's / Z7's might have some marginal folks rethink their Z9 purchases. In any case I am hopeful that we will see improvements to the pro-sumer bodies as I will never have the resources for a Z9. It will be interesting to see whether those guys with new hats are sitting around Xmas Eve wearing the hats and wondering where their cameras are.

 

[sh1209]

One has to think that it would not be too smart for Nikon to drop a firmware update for the Z6ii/Z7ii in advance of getting the Z9 into people's hands. Any significant upgrade to the Z6's / Z7's might have some marginal folks rethink their Z9 purchases. In any case I am hopeful that we will see improvements to the pro-sumer bodies as I will never have the resources for a Z9. It will be interesting to see whether those guys with new hats are sitting around Xmas Eve wearing the hats and wondering where their cameras are.

That’s definitely a valid point and I hope you’re right. It would be nice to see a decent firmware update.

 

[Bill T]

I am hopeful Steve that we will see something in the months after the Z9 release. Hopefully sooner. Hang in there !!

 

[JanH]

I think we put ourselves in a hard spot when we buy a camera on self imposed expectations about improvements that might be added later to a camera beyond what the manufacture actually announced.

Like you, I have hoped for substantial AF performance updates to the "ii" cameras, but I also understand nobody has promised anything in this regard.

Obviously you are right that we are wise not to buy cameras based on what we hope firmware updates will add. Still I feel the situation is more complicated, in part due to Nikon's fortunate but also competitively necessary practice of significantly improving the performance of its ML cameras.

Also, to my knowledge Nikon itself has stated that it intends to continue improving its cameras through firmware within their hardware limitations.

So what do I choose if I am buying into the Z6 line - as I am actually hoping to do soon. Do I go for the Z6, which after FW 3.40 by many accounts approximates the AF performance of the Z6ii, and save myself $400 (currently) to put toward additional glass (14-30)? Or do I buy the Z6ii because it has better hardware and will also - one might hope - be supported for a longer period through FW updates as this model is 2 years newer.

I am currently looking to buy the Z6ii thinking that it can and will improve beyond the Z6. But, yes, there are no hard promises or guarantees in this regard, so maybe I should not make assumptions and go for the Z6. But then I may find out in a few weeks or months that Nikon does post FW 2.0 which improves the Z6ii performance significantly. The word dilemma is therefore accurate in my opinion. As a result I am not sure whether to jump in and with which model. In fact, I am also considering buying a Z5 or 2nd hand Z6 so I can upgrade to a Z6iii when/if it is released with the expeed 7 processor and hopefully improved sensor readout.

My own thinking right now is that we will see more FW updates for the Z6/7ii and hopefully sooner rather than later. Based on a 2 year upgrade cycle these models will be around for another year and Nikon has to continue to compete with the R6, A74, and the likes. Also, FW 1.30 was relatively modest, and added support for the 24-120, but to my knowledge not for the 100-400 (though maybe Nikon simply did not post this info). So hopefully we will see a FW update of the Z6/7ii in the near future, and hopefully it will exploit the suspected potential of the 2nd processor. I don't think I am ready commit to the Z6ii until this situation becomes more clear, even though I would love to replace my D7100 with it.

I am eager to learn from the wisdom of the members of this forum.

 

[sh1209]

Obviously you are right that we are wise not to buy cameras based on what we hope firmware updates will add. Still I feel the situation is more complicated, in part due to Nikon's fortunate but also competitively necessary practice of significantly improving the performance of its ML cameras.

Also, to my knowledge Nikon itself has stated that it intends to continue improving its cameras through firmware within their hardware limitations.

So what do I choose if I am buying into the Z6 line - as I am actually hoping to do soon. Do I go for the Z6, which after FW 3.40 by many accounts approximates the AF performance of the Z6ii, and save myself $400 (currently) to put toward additional glass (14-30)? Or do I buy the Z6ii because it has better hardware and will also - one might hope - be supported for a longer period through FW updates as this model is 2 years newer.

I am currently looking to buy the Z6ii thinking that it can and will improve beyond the Z6. But, yes, there are no hard promises or guarantees in this regard, so maybe I should not make assumptions and go for the Z6. But then I may find out in a few weeks or months that Nikon does post FW 2.0 which improves the Z6ii performance significantly. The word dilemma is therefore accurate in my opinion. As a result I am not sure whether to jump in and with which model. In fact, I am also considering buying a Z5 or 2nd hand Z6 so I can upgrade to a Z6iii when/if it is released with the expeed 7 processor and hopefully improved sensor readout.

My own thinking right now is that we will see more FW updates for the Z6/7ii and hopefully sooner rather than later. Based on a 2 year upgrade cycle these models will be around for another year and Nikon has to continue to compete with the R6, A74, and the likes. Also, FW 1.30 was relatively modest, and added support for the 24-120, but to my knowledge not for the 100-400 (though maybe Nikon simply did not post this info). So hopefully we will see a FW update of the Z6/7ii in the near future, and hopefully it will exploit the suspected potential of the 2nd processor. I don't think I am ready commit to the Z6ii until this situation becomes more clear, even though I would love to replace my D7100 with it.

I am eager to learn from the wisdom of the members of this forum.

The Z6ii is a very good camera and amazing in low light. Like I said I’m the original post, 85/90% of what I shoot it does very well. Focus needs to be improved and in a way that prevents focusing on foreground objects as well as improvements for subject tracking. BIF especially fast moving birds is an area that can definitely be improved. If those two items could be improved, then I’d be a happy camper. Focus stacking, portrait work and landscape images are fantastic with the z6ii and Z7ii. The ergonomics on these bodies are great as well. My analogy would be, it’s like having a corvette that has two cylinders disabled lol. The potential is there and I’m absolutely certain they can fix these issues via firmware.

 

[JanH]

I am convinced of the quality of the Z6(ii) and Z glass. I shoot mostly landscape, city and street life, travel (not so much lately) and some wildlife including BIF. I am looking to upgrade from the D7100 to the Z6 because of the much improved low light performance, buffer, and IBIS of the Z6(ii). I also plan to use it for video work (the most important weakness of all the F mount Nikon cameras IMO).

 

[sh1209]

The z glass is phenomenal! I have the 24/70 2.8, 24/40 f4, 70/200 2.8, 50mm 1.8, 20mm 1.8, 85mm 1.8, 105mm 2.8, 14/30 f4 and all are superb.

 

[JanH]

The z glass is phenomenal! I have the 24/70 2.8, 24/40 f4, 70/200 2.8, 50mm 1.8, 20mm 1.8, 85mm 1.8, 105mm 2.8, 14/30 f4 and all are superb.

Thank you. I am planning on the 24-120 f4 (if it tests well), 14-30 f4 and 35 f1.8 (in that order). They will join the AF-S 85 f1.8 and Tamron 100-400 via the FTZ (to be replaced with Z glass in due time). My DX glass will go.

 

[sh1209]

Thank you. I am planning on the 24-120 f4 (if it tests well), 14-30 f4 and 35 f1.8 (in that order). They will join the AF-S 85 f1.8 and Tamron 100-400 via the FTZ (to be replaced with Z glass in due time). My DX glass will go.

The 24-120 looks like it’s going to be a good one. Wouldn’t mind that lens myself.

 

[JanH]

The 24-120 looks like it’s going to be a good one. Wouldn’t mind that lens myself.

Yes it does look promising. I have it on preorder, thinking it will be a while before I actually will get it. I love the AF-S 85 on my D7100 for isolating subjects, so I like the extra reach over the 24-70.

 

[John Navitsky]

Also, to my knowledge Nikon itself has stated that it intends to continue improving its cameras through firmware within their hardware limitations.

I think the key part of that is “within their [hardware] limitations”. As a computer guy it’s hard to even know where to start enumerating what we don’t know and how it could enable or impede further enhancements. Often people will say, well, you have two of them, it should be possible to be “twice” as good. But there are lots of reasons it could be very much not feasible (or at least practical) to achieve anywhere near that much improvement…. or it could totally be possible.

So what do I choose if I am buying into the Z6 line - as I am actually hoping to do soon. Do I go for the Z6, which after FW 3.40 by many accounts approximates the AF performance of the Z6ii, and save myself $400 (currently) to put toward additional glass (14-30)? Or do I buy the Z6ii because it has better hardware and will also - one might hope - be supported for a longer period through FW updates as this model is 2 years newer.

I think the simple answer is, only go with the z6 if you are totally sure the camera you are buying with the 3.40 fw will meet your need for the life of the camera and you will be totally happy. While I urge caution with expectations about z6ii updates, that has to go 10x for the z6.

 

[JanH]

Thank you John. I agree that one and one is not always two, especially when dealing with complex interactive processes. Nikon has made a commitment to updates but we can't really tell where it will or can carry the Z cameras. My guess/hope is still that we will see an FW update for the Z6ii relatively soon, and that the camera will be more future proof than the the Z6. But both are no more than guesses.

Both the Z6/Z6ii will be a major improvement over the D7100 for most of my photography - except perhaps for BIF and for the reach of my 100-400. For now I am leaning towards the Z6ii.