DON'T BE THIS GUY

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PAUL50

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Don't be this guy! Knowing fully that there were photographers on the other side of the herd from him shooting from the shore he nevertheless jumped into the middle of the river and started taking his shots. He is not a touron who might be expected to have no understanding or regard for photographers. He's holding a Nikon camera and what appeared to be a Nikkor 200-500 lens. He ruined the shots of an Elk crossing for six to eight other photographers who were on the other side of the herd. It wasn't an accident. He saw us. He knew we were there, he just didn't care. I saw him later and thought to approach him but I was so angry I was afraid I'd hit him. He recognized me eyeballing him and he looked down towards the ground as he quickly walked away. Frankly, I wouldn't expect this from anyone on this website, but I thought it worthwhile posting in light of earlier posts regarding people blocking shots.
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Unfortunately not surprising for there this time of year. Hopefully you have made the trip to Cataloochee as well. Less traffic and much friendlier atmosphere for the most part.
Actually, I did, three times over a four-day period. Ultimately, I got a lot of great shots, which I'll post once done processing. I had an incredible four days there and this guy I wrote about was the only one of a significant number of photographers that pulled a stunt like that. It happens that a well-meaning person blocks a shot occasionally, I'm sure I've unintentionally done it, sometimes it can't be helped, but this guy just did not care. Everyone else was extremely friendly and courteous. Oh well.
 
Unfortunately I've seen this sort of behavior over and over. Sometimes in the Benezette, PA area where I usually photograph elk, crowds (including photographers) will not just ruin the shots of other photographers, they cause stress to the animals, in some cases blocking the elks' intended path or leaving no escape. For those of us that treasure this area, the rut has become silly season, with huge crowds of tourists who are encouraged to visit the region by the PA Game Commission, who manage and use the elk as a source of income.
 
Unfortunately I've seen this sort of behavior over and over. Sometimes in the Benezette, PA area where I usually photograph elk, crowds (including photographers) will not just ruin the shots of other photographers, they cause stress to the animals, in some cases blocking the elks' intended path or leaving no escape. For those of us that treasure this area, the rut has become silly season, with huge crowds of tourists who are encouraged to visit the region by the PA Game Commission, who manage and use the elk as a source of income.
This year I did a lot of travelling locally on the east coast and out west and I saw a lot of what you described. It's sad, and I really try hard not to become part of it, even accidentally. I've driven past large crowds instead of stopping and made certain to avoid getting too close to the animals although sometimes it just happens. This guy really ticked me off because he was so brazen about it.
 
Totally off subject, but how's the color looking in WV?
It seems it's going to be a late season. Just some hints of color here and there but nothing to speak of. Next week I'm headed upstate NY to do some landscape photography and capture the Fall colors but I'm thinking we may be too early even up there.
Totally off subject, but how's the color looking in WV?
 
I have had people with dogs off lead when they were required to be on lead, and the dog has rushed water birds I am trying to photograph. Drives me crazy. But deliberately walking into a shot...! Just terrible. The selfishness and entitlement of some people.....
 
Don't be this guy! Knowing fully that there were photographers on the other side of the herd from him shooting from the shore he nevertheless jumped into the middle of the river and started taking his shots. He is not a touron who might be expected to have no understanding or regard for photographers. He's holding a Nikon camera and what appeared to be a Nikkor 200-500 lens. He ruined the shots of an Elk crossing for six to eight other photographers who were on the other side of the herd. It wasn't an accident. He saw us. He knew we were there, he just didn't care. I saw him later and thought to approach him but I was so angry I was afraid I'd hit him. He recognized me eyeballing him and he looked down towards the ground as he quickly walked away. Frankly, I wouldn't expect this from anyone on this website, but I thought it worthwhile posting in light of earlier posts regarding people blocking shots.
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Devils advocate..... you were likely in his shot too. If he wanted a shot from that angle, which could be a better angle, who should move? If you set up in a spot does that give you sole rights to everything that could be in your frame? It's unfortunate that we sometimes get in each others shots but Im not sure anyone can claim the rights to anything but the space between the lens and subject. A good compromise would be both of you moving to the left of frame a bit. I just dont think its realistic to expect everyone to keep all that real estate clear in and along the creek.
 
Devils advocate..... you were likely in his shot too. If he wanted a shot from that angle, which could be a better angle, who should move? If you set up in a spot does that give you sole rights to everything that could be in your frame? It's unfortunate that we sometimes get in each others shots but Im not sure anyone can claim the rights to anything but the space between the lens and subject. A good compromise would be both of you moving to the left of frame a bit. I just dont think its realistic to expect everyone to keep all that real estate clear in and along the creek.
Myself and six plus other photographers were standing on the shore near the water line, as was everyone else, so that we didn't interfere with each other, when this guy jumps into the river walks right in the middle of it and into the shots of every other photographer interfering with their shots. Myself and the others would have all had to walk into the river blocking the shots of those behind us to satisfy this one guys desire to hog the stage. I stand by what I've said.

I should also add that with that guy where he was, he was blocking the animals path to the right. Had we moved into the water to satisfy this guys selfish desires we very well could have blocked the animals path to the left or have gotten caught right in the middle of the herd, which would have endangered us and stressed the animals.
 
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Devils advocate..... you were likely in his shot too. If he wanted a shot from that angle, which could be a better angle, who should move? If you set up in a spot does that give you sole rights to everything that could be in your frame? It's unfortunate that we sometimes get in each others shots but Im not sure anyone can claim the rights to anything but the space between the lens and subject. A good compromise would be both of you moving to the left of frame a bit. I just dont think its realistic to expect everyone to keep all that real estate clear in and along the creek.
I treat photography similarly to an uncontrolled airport flying environment. Here, the first priority would go to an emergency, and after that those already established have priority. Whenever I approach a photographer who is obviously in the process of taking a shot, I do what I have to in order to not interfere with them, as long as they are reasonable about it.
 
Was shooting black swans on a river in gorgeous late afternoon light - then a few people with bag of oats and cellphones rock up and start feeding the swans in the shade on river bank - end of shoot
 
I don't know why it is hard for some people to understand, that there are certain "unwritten but known guidelines" to follow when it comes to wildlife / nature photography:
1. Respect the critter
2. Respect other photographers
3. Endangering either critter or photographer is not worth any Photo
 
Don't be this guy! Knowing fully that there were photographers on the other side of the herd from him shooting from the shore he nevertheless jumped into the middle of the river and started taking his shots. He is not a touron who might be expected to have no understanding or regard for photographers. He's holding a Nikon camera and what appeared to be a Nikkor 200-500 lens. He ruined the shots of an Elk crossing for six to eight other photographers who were on the other side of the herd. It wasn't an accident. He saw us. He knew we were there, he just didn't care. I saw him later and thought to approach him but I was so angry I was afraid I'd hit him. He recognized me eyeballing him and he looked down towards the ground as he quickly walked away. Frankly, I wouldn't expect this from anyone on this website, but I thought it worthwhile posting in light of earlier posts regarding people blocking shots.
Sad to say, I see this sort of thing all the time, which is why I generally avoid any place that‘s especially crowded, if at all possible. I’m now old and curmudgeonly enough 🤬 that I don’t hesitate to speak to anyone who’s acting like a selfish ass, but always try to do so in a non-threatening way (“Hey, I’m sure you don’t realize that you’re in eight other photographers way…”). Most times this does the trick, but sometimes they just don’t give a damn, and I chalk those instances up to the jerk gene. No sense getting into a fist fight over a photograph, even though at times I’d love to do just that! 🏋️
 
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I was photographing elk in RMNP recently. They were in a big meadow and everyone was on the road and did not set foot in the meadow. There were signs all over saying the meadow was closed. Then a dude with what looked like a 600 f/4 and tripod "snuck" behind some trees near the bull and 5-6 cows. I don't know what he was thinking because he was close enough that with that lens all he was going to get was close ups of the elks eyeballs. The Bull was very concerned and agitated. He was clearly unaware of the negative effect he was having on the wildlife. And the elk kind of scattered at that point, ruining the photo op for the rest of us. For some reason the bull did not attack him.
 
It's a matter of perspective. From his point of view you were in his shot. Other than stay off the fragile areas and maintain a safe and low stress distance, there aren't usually designated photo places. We just take our chances and get the best angle we can.
Well, I suppose if it’s okay in your mind to knowingly jump out in front of a substantial group of people who were already safely propositioned to photograph the herd crossing without blocking the herds movements and at a safe distance from the herd than you’re correct. Of course he’s in my shot, he jumped in there at the last moment. Would you be this guy? I don’t think so.

In addition, there were a least a dozen and a half or more photographers on either side of the herd all prepositioned in such a way as to be at a safe distance and not blocking either the herd's movements or blocking other photographer's shots. None of these people apparently thought it prudent, wise, or ethical from a photographer's stand point to do what this guy did. So you're correct, it is a matter of perspective, and I think had you been there you would have agreed with me an the other photographers who were put out by this individual's actions.
 
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As frustrating as I know it is, I would have just moved myself. Many of the places I end up shooting I have to take into account other photogs and the reality is you cant tell that guy he HAS to miss the shot he wanted because you call dibs on that stretch of creek. As soon as that guy showed up I would have been moving into the creek and towards the other shore. All that being said I wouldnt want to be that guy..... but I also wouldnt be the photog that let some dude ruin my shot because I refused to move myself. Its better to react quickly to surprises than to be foiled by a knit wit. Im not making excuses for the guy, I just think you would be better served having an "adapt and overcome" attitude than simply getting mad and missing out on any other chances at shooting the scene.
 
As frustrating as I know it is, I would have just moved myself. Many of the places I end up shooting I have to take into account other photogs and the reality is you cant tell that guy he HAS to miss the shot he wanted because you call dibs on that stretch of creek. As soon as that guy showed up I would have been moving into the creek and towards the other shore. All that being said I wouldnt want to be that guy..... but I also wouldnt be the photog that let some dude ruin my shot because I refused to move myself. Its better to react quickly to surprises than to be foiled by a knit wit. Im not making excuses for the guy, I just think you would be better served having an "adapt and overcome" attitude than simply getting mad and missing out on any other chances at shooting the scene.
I agree with the concept of "adapt and overcome," which I use regularly, and I suppose to truly appreciate what I've said one would have had to have been there. Bottom line was had I stepped into the river, as I could have, I would have directly and immediately blocked every other photographer's shot who was standing along side me and on that portion of the shore. That would have been wrong of me to do. Also, since the guy at question had placed himself in a position to block the movement of the herd to the right, we could see, as a group, the elk begin to move away from him and to the left towards were I and many others were standing. In addition to having blocked the shots of the other photographers on my side of the herd, by moving into the stream, I would also have either blocked the herd from moving left, that was already changing position in my direction, or placed myself and those of us who did move into the stream directly in the line of the herd. So, there simply was nowhere to go. I can say without reservation that had I been that guy, upon stepping into the water and realizing, as he did, the impact of that decision on both the herd and other photographers, I would unhesitatingly and apologetically moved back ashore. But we're beating a dead horse here. I understand your comments and Bills. I have not been advocating the "calling of dibs on a stretch of creek," I'm advocating respect for the other photographers and in this case possibly the safety of the herd. When just one person makes a move that effects the behavior of the animals (in this case the herd) and at the same time gets in the way of the shots of numerous other photographers, as between that individual, the group and the animals, certainly the interests of the group and the animals takes priority over the selfish interests of the individual.
 
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