DON'T BE THIS GUY

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I think it is human nature for us to be self-centered. If someone was in my shot I'd be annoyed because I alone have found that unique point of view and how dare he infringe upon it. He probably thinks the same thing. So what to do? Friendly communication perhaps? Do I know I am ruining his photo? Does he know he is ruining mine? I recently saw a guy at Oxbow bend who was photographing his apparently beloved Corvette against the mountain backdrop. I parked in a open spot between him and the Vista not realizing the importance. He moved his car to continue shooting but had I realized I could have parked elsewhere in the pullout. I'm self centered, he's self centered, we are all self centered.

Of all the Elk in all the gin joints in.....
 
I think it is human nature for us to be self-centered. If someone was in my shot I'd be annoyed because I alone have found that unique point of view and how dare he infringe upon it. He probably thinks the same thing. So what to do? Friendly communication perhaps? Do I know I am ruining his photo? Does he know he is ruining mine? I recently saw a guy at Oxbow bend who was photographing his apparently beloved Corvette against the mountain backdrop. I parked in a open spot between him and the Vista not realizing the importance. He moved his car to continue shooting but had I realized I could have parked elsewhere in the pullout. I'm self centered, he's self centered, we are all self centered.

Of all the Elk in all the gin joints in.....
Lol!
 
Unfortunately I've seen this sort of behavior over and over. Sometimes in the Benezette, PA area where I usually photograph elk, crowds (including photographers) will not just ruin the shots of other photographers, they cause stress to the animals, in some cases blocking the elks' intended path or leaving no escape. For those of us that treasure this area, the rut has become silly season, with huge crowds of tourists who are encouraged to visit the region by the PA Game Commission, who manage and use the elk as a source of income.

Benezette has turned into a zoo and I really hate to go there -- I will NOT go there on weekends, and Fridays are just about as bad. People who are idiots, inconsiderate or both are everywhere near the roads. Fortunately few of them get very far from the roads so anyone who's willing to walk can get pretty good photos 1/2 mile back in. I tend to go to other places in the elk range, places where very few people go because the elk aren't habituated -- no cell-phone photos there.

I place the blame for attracting more tourists to Benezette on DCNR, which I believe funded the visitors center, and the elk country alliance that runs the visitors center; in my opinion the Game Commission is just responding to the monster that the other two organizations have created. Both of those outfits seem to want ever more tourists for the perceived economic benefits to a not-very-prosperous area. Thus endith my rant.
 
Welcome to civilization. I hear there are people who walk into stores and strip the shelves bare in broad daylight in America. I’m having a hard time being shocked that there are rude photographers.

Just as a side note I live 15 minutes from Lake Erie and don’t go near the marshes when the “birder” mob appears from all over the planet during migrations because I know the place will be similiar to trying to photograph wildlife at the Super Bowl and it’s foolish to expect someone to not get in shots. People like this guy are everywhere someone can drive to and I‘ve never been big on being 6 rows deep in tourists to take a “nature” shot.

But I do get your point. Their are morons everywhere.
 
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Benezette has turned into a zoo and I really hate to go there -- I will NOT go there on weekends, and Fridays are just about as bad. People who are idiots, inconsiderate or both are everywhere near the roads. Fortunately few of them get very far from the roads so anyone who's willing to walk can get pretty good photos 1/2 mile back in. I tend to go to other places in the elk range, places where very few people go because the elk aren't habituated -- no cell-phone photos there.

I place the blame for attracting more tourists to Benezette on DCNR, which I believe funded the visitors center, and the elk country alliance that runs the visitors center; in my opinion the Game Commission is just responding to the monster that the other two organizations have created. Both of those outfits seem to want ever more tourists for the perceived economic benefits to a not-very-prosperous area. Thus endith my rant.
Billions of tourist dollars trumps clear photography lines of sight and the comfort of the critters.
 
Don't be this guy! Knowing fully that there were photographers on the other side of the herd from him shooting from the shore he nevertheless jumped into the middle of the river and started taking his shots. He is not a touron who might be expected to have no understanding or regard for photographers. He's holding a Nikon camera and what appeared to be a Nikkor 200-500 lens. He ruined the shots of an Elk crossing for six to eight other photographers who were on the other side of the herd. It wasn't an accident. He saw us. He knew we were there, he just didn't care. I saw him later and thought to approach him but I was so angry I was afraid I'd hit him. He recognized me eyeballing him and he looked down towards the ground as he quickly walked away. Frankly, I wouldn't expect this from anyone on this website, but I thought it worthwhile posting in light of earlier posts regarding people blocking shots.
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Thanks for giving me a great idea. I just decided to attend the birding events next year that I always avoid like the plague except not to photograph birds. Instead, I’m going to chronicle the idiocy of mob scene photography. It will be far more fascinating than the wildlife’s behavior. I’ll post the images next spring after the migration north. Hope you have better luck.
 
About a week ago, I was riding my bike up a dirt road in the National Forest behind my house. I came across a young bow hunter walking the road with his girlfriend/wife. As we approached each other, it became obvious he was rather put out that I was riding my bike up the road and stirring up their opportunity to get a deer. First thing he asked was how far I was going. I said about 20 miles. He let me know how short the season was, and if I was riding that far I would obviously be ruining a lot of peoples hunting day. I laughed because I was literally on the same road this fella used to drive in to his site. I let him know that if he was hunting along the road, possibly next year he should put more effort Ito finding a better location.

I kinda feel this story belongs in this thread. Not the same, but relative.

When I got home after the ride, I told all the deer that are hiding in my back yard the story, and they had a good chuckle.
 
About a week ago, I was riding my bike up a dirt road in the National Forest behind my house. I came across a young bow hunter walking the road with his girlfriend/wife. As we approached each other, it became obvious he was rather put out that I was riding my bike up the road and stirring up their opportunity to get a deer. First thing he asked was how far I was going. I said about 20 miles. He let me know how short the season was, and if I was riding that far I would obviously be ruining a lot of peoples hunting day. I laughed because I was literally on the same road this fella used to drive in to his site. I let him know that if he was hunting along the road, possibly next year he should put more effort Ito finding a better location.

I kinda feel this story belongs in this thread. Not the same, but relative.

When I got home after the ride, I told all the deer that are hiding in my back yard the story, and they had a good chuckle.
Not to mention that hunting from roads is illegal about every place there are hunting laws.
 
I never disagree with strangers holding weapons. At least he communicated with you in a friendly way when you probably had no idea you were doing any harm. Same with the folks with their cell phones walking in front of my tripod. Or was it my tripod was blocking their selfie shot.
 
Unfortunately I've seen this sort of behavior over and over. Sometimes in the Benezette, PA area where I usually photograph elk, crowds (including photographers) will not just ruin the shots of other photographers, they cause stress to the animals, in some cases blocking the elks' intended path or leaving no escape. For those of us that treasure this area, the rut has become silly season, with huge crowds of tourists who are encouraged to visit the region by the PA Game Commission, who manage and use the elk as a source of income.
Last year at Benezette, I witnessed two “photographers” walk out into a field to get closer to the rutting bulls (and right in front of dozens more prudent shooters along the field edge), set up their cameras and tripods, then 10 minutes later scramble (without their gear) to the sidelines to escape a charging bull. The bull rammed one tripod & camera, and very nearly ran down one of the fleeing photographers. I was glad nobody was injured, but took some satisfaction from the two tourons getting their just desserts. Hopefully, they learned something.

I only visit the Benezette area in the middle of the week, and try to scout out my own places, away from the crowds. Elk often can be spotted along the roads and pathways away from the more popular locations.
 
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Last year at Benezette, I witnessed two “photographers” walk out into a field to get closer to the rutting bulls (and right in front of dozens more prudent shooters along the field edge), set up their cameras and tripods, then 10 minutes later scramble (without their gear) to the sidelines to escape a charging bull. The bull rammed one tripod & camera, and very nearly ran down one of the fleeing photographers. I was glad nobody was injured, but took some satisfaction from the two tourons getting their just desserts. Hopefully, they learned something.

I only visit the Benezette area in the middle of the week, and try to scout out my own places, away from the crowds. Elk often can be spotted along the roads and pathways away from the more popular locations.
Which field was it? Im surprised that story didnt make its rounds.
 
As frustrating as I know it is, I would have just moved myself. Many of the places I end up shooting I have to take into account other photogs and the reality is you cant tell that guy he HAS to miss the shot he wanted because you call dibs on that stretch of creek. As soon as that guy showed up I would have been moving into the creek and towards the other shore. All that being said I wouldnt want to be that guy..... but I also wouldnt be the photog that let some dude ruin my shot because I refused to move myself. Its better to react quickly to surprises than to be foiled by a knit wit. Im not making excuses for the guy, I just think you would be better served having an "adapt and overcome" attitude than simply getting mad and missing out on any other chances at shooting the scene.
While this sounds reasonable, sometimes it's not the answer. For example, I was leading a group into Cades Cove for sunrise. We were the second and third cars in line and stopped at Sparks Lane for the first shot just after sunrise. Cars were periodically going down Sparks Lane and then returning, so we worked with headlights and the occasional car that stopped for 5-10 seconds. But one guy decided he was going to stop his car in the road and wait to take a particular photos to the side from the road. He was there for over 5 minutes - and we had to completely stop photography - before I called to him and he reluctantly moved. The shame of it was we invited him to join us, to park with us and walk into the field, or other options. He simply thought it was okay for him to completely ruin our photos and planning even though we were there first - until we insisted that he move. As it turned out, I knew him through Facebook and he recognized me as I got closer so it was not a big issue.

Sometimes people need to be strongly reminded of proper etiquette. It can be a concert, sporting event, or photography in a national park. It's rude and callous for someone to simply ignore the fact that they are blocking others or obstructing their photo. My approach normally is to yield to whoever was there first, and to invite them to join me or my group.

In general, I try to ignore the extremely popular locations and times of day. I plan in advance and seek out angles and locations with little likelihood of others being in the same place. And if possible, I wear dark clothing and encourage others with me to do the same so it's easy to miss me in the background or clone me out if needed.
 
Don't be this guy! Knowing fully that there were photographers on the other side of the herd from him shooting from the shore he nevertheless jumped into the middle of the river and started taking his shots. He is not a touron who might be expected to have no understanding or regard for photographers. He's holding a Nikon camera and what appeared to be a Nikkor 200-500 lens. He ruined the shots of an Elk crossing for six to eight other photographers who were on the other side of the herd. It wasn't an accident. He saw us. He knew we were there, he just didn't care. I saw him later and thought to approach him but I was so angry I was afraid I'd hit him. He recognized me eyeballing him and he looked down towards the ground as he quickly walked away. Frankly, I wouldn't expect this from anyone on this website, but I thought it worthwhile posting in light of earlier posts regarding people blocking shots.
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Maybe he sees himself as the lone paparazzo of the animal kingdom 😄
 
Antlers make people do stupid things. It’s likely been that way for tens of thousands of years. In modern times, I’m aware of even judges and law enforcement officers breaking the law in their quest to capture antlers.

The only way to escape other people’s stupidity and rudeness today is to escape other people. Because as much as one can try to educate and change the behaviors of others, there’s a massive (anti)-social media onslaught that trains people to be selfish and ridiculous and rewards those who excel at it.
 
I agree with the concept of "adapt and overcome," which I use regularly, and I suppose to truly appreciate what I've said one would have had to have been there. Bottom line was had I stepped into the river, as I could have, I would have directly and immediately blocked every other photographer's shot who was standing along side me and on that portion of the shore. That would have been wrong of me to do. Also, since the guy at question had placed himself in a position to block the movement of the herd to the right, we could see, as a group, the elk begin to move away from him and to the left towards were I and many others were standing. In addition to having blocked the shots of the other photographers on my side of the herd, by moving into the stream, I would also have either blocked the herd from moving left, that was already changing position in my direction, or placed myself and those of us who did move into the stream directly in the line of the herd. So, there simply was nowhere to go. I can say without reservation that had I been that guy, upon stepping into the water and realizing, as he did, the impact of that decision on both the herd and other photographers, I would unhesitatingly and apologetically moved back ashore. But we're beating a dead horse here. I understand your comments and Bills. I have not been advocating the "calling of dibs on a stretch of creek," I'm advocating respect for the other photographers and in this case possibly the safety of the herd. When just one person makes a move that effects the behavior of the animals (in this case the herd) and at the same time gets in the way of the shots of numerous other photographers, as between that individual, the group and the animals, certainly the interests of the group and the animals takes priority over the selfish interests of the individual.
I want to add a "locals" perspective for folks who have never lived in tourist areas where armies of visitors appear at certain times of the year and take over the countryside or shoreline or whatever, often with no regard for the environment or the people who live there full time.

Who knows, there could be something more than meets the eye to what is happening in this picture. This guy could be a local who doesn't want you to be happy and wishes, that, as a group, everyone left and never came back.

Maybe he was unapologetic because he did it on purpose to drive off the elks and the photographers. Photobombing your shots and producing images of panicked animals fleeing the scene as quickly as possible may be exactly what he had in mind.

I've lived various, sometimes remote places, that attract large numbers of seasonal tourists. Most locals who did not profit from tourism, wished that the tourists stayed in Chicago or LA or NYC or sometimes whatever city in the lower 48 that they come from, would go home and never come back. Sometimes locals who wish tourists never took over their countryside take action and do this kind of thing on purpose to get the point across that they don't want tourists in their community.

In the fishing world they move their boats in front of other boats right where people are casting and anchor and turn up the music and party. Sometimes they waterski around boats to drive away all the fish and toss the people fishing around with the wake of the ski boat. Jet skis speeding around in circles driving off fish and wildlife is pretty common since those annoying things have been invented. Sometimes it's because the operators are clueless, other times it by intent. Get out of my fishing spot, tourist!

In the hunting world people urinate and leave cigarette butts around hunting blinds or the bait so that the deer or whatever won't come near them. Sometimes it's amateur hunters who don't realize that animal's sense of smell is their strongest sense and other times it local sending the message "go home, we don't want you here". On opening day nonhunter locals sometimes randomly fire their weapons or set off fireworks at sunup to drive the deer or whatever into hiding.

There seem to be many examples posted in messages here of behavior with the sole purpose of sending the same message to photographers who flock to areas like the elk farm preserve in Pennsylvania or Rocky Mountain areas to recreate Ansel Adams most famous shots with a few thousand of their closest friends.

I'm not condoning any of it. The point is that the next time someone pulls up and parks their car directly in front of a group of tripods all pointed in the same direction it may not be an accidental social faux pau. Someone seemingly intentionally driving off the critters you are trying to photograph might be exactly what they had in mind when they entered the water, as in this case. They may be figuratively giving you the finger.

It maybe because they have to pick up mounds trash left by tourists every season after they go home. Maybe it's the congested traffic tourists bring to the paradise countryside's that are their homes or wilderness trampled by mobs. Or maybe they are tired of visitors leaving designated public areas and trespassing on private property.

Expecting cooperative behavior from people sending the message that they do not want you there just isn't ever going to work. And as is pretty noticeable from many of the remarks here and the original image, lots of tourists also wish that certain other tourists went home and never came back.
 
About a week ago, I was riding my bike up a dirt road in the National Forest behind my house. I came across a young bow hunter walking the road with his girlfriend/wife. As we approached each other, it became obvious he was rather put out that I was riding my bike up the road and stirring up their opportunity to get a deer. First thing he asked was how far I was going. I said about 20 miles. He let me know how short the season was, and if I was riding that far I would obviously be ruining a lot of peoples hunting day. I laughed because I was literally on the same road this fella used to drive in to his site. I let him know that if he was hunting along the road, possibly next year he should put more effort Ito finding a better location.

I kinda feel this story belongs in this thread. Not the same, but relative.

When I got home after the ride, I told all the deer that are hiding in my back yard the story, and they had a good chuckle.

Several years ago I was bow hunting on the edge of a wilderness area. This was the first time that I had been there. The road that bordered the wilderness area had a bow hunter every fifty feet! I was shocked. These guys were all just fine with the dangerously over crowded conditions. Me, not so much. I found a trail into the wilderness area and left them to stake out the road. The next year I hunted the same wilderness area but entered from a completely different location. For an entire week the only other human I saw was my wife.

From year-to-year you have no idea what the human herd will do so just do your best to execute your own plan.
 
Several years ago I was bow hunting on the edge of a wilderness area. This was the first time that I had been there. The road that bordered the wilderness area had a bow hunter every fifty feet! I was shocked. These guys were all just fine with the dangerously over crowded conditions. Me, not so much. I found a trail into the wilderness area and left them to stake out the road. The next year I hunted the same wilderness area but entered from a completely different location. For an entire week the only other human I saw was my wife.

From year-to-year you have no idea what the human herd will do so just do your best to execute your own plan.
I bet many of them were directly across from each other in a crossfire pattern too. I gave up hunting decades ago but one rule that I, and many other locals always lived by when I lived in the woods was stay as far as possible away from the woods or any field on opening day of hunting season unless one has a death wish. And to keep your children, livestock and pets indoors. Cows and dogs spray painted bright colors were common. The night before opening day the bars in hunting areas do their biggest night of the year as hunters pour into the community and open their camps and the next morning all the city people hammering down the booze until bar closing time were the same people who are out carrying deadly weapons for the first time since last hunting season with little sleep and hangovers at sunrise.

One year just down the road from where I lived a 9-year-old girl was shot through the neck with a broad tip razor head on opening day while standing next the road in front of her home while waiting for the school bus. Another year a mother made the mistake of wearing a brown coat and white gloves while she took her kids out into the backyard during hunting season and was shot with a high-powered rifle round by a hunter who was never found. Both died instantly.

You made an excellent decision.
 
Well, I suppose if it’s okay in your mind to knowingly jump out in front of a substantial group of people who were already safely propositioned to photograph the herd crossing without blocking the herds movements and at a safe distance from the herd than you’re correct. Of course he’s in my shot, he jumped in there at the last moment. Would you be this guy? I don’t think so.

In addition, there were a least a dozen and a half or more photographers on either side of the herd all prepositioned in such a way as to be at a safe distance and not blocking either the herd's movements or blocking other photographer's shots. None of these people apparently thought it prudent, wise, or ethical from a photographer's stand point to do what this guy did. So you're correct, it is a matter of perspective, and I think had you been there you would have agreed with me an the other photographers who were put out by this individual's actions.
So we are now talking a minibus load of photographers. Hmm. Sorry, but maybe he doesn’t travel around the country or world taking photographs. This could have been the “one” for him.
 
Don't be this guy! Knowing fully that there were photographers on the other side of the herd from him shooting from the shore he nevertheless jumped into the middle of the river and started taking his shots. He is not a touron who might be expected to have no understanding or regard for photographers. He's holding a Nikon camera and what appeared to be a Nikkor 200-500 lens. He ruined the shots of an Elk crossing for six to eight other photographers who were on the other side of the herd. It wasn't an accident. He saw us. He knew we were there, he just didn't care. I saw him later and thought to approach him but I was so angry I was afraid I'd hit him. He recognized me eyeballing him and he looked down towards the ground as he quickly walked away. Frankly, I wouldn't expect this from anyone on this website, but I thought it worthwhile posting in light of earlier posts regarding people blocking shots.
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I have come across this issue so often, yet in parts of Asia, India and Japan where its crowded the experience was nothing but mostly with thoughtful and respectful people........who seemed to understand some level of photographic etiquette .

FLIP SIDE

That guy certainly had the light behind him, shooting at the face with intent, a superior position for composition with the added potential of having the Elk step in to the water to drink or cross the water leading to even more potentially excellent shots, the fact he seems to be crouching or getting lower was adding to the angle of shooting as well as not seeming to large by standing up fully.

Maybe his action was a premeditated case of .............i don't care about others, there all in the wrong position and i am not going to miss this brilliant opportunity, or he is just ignorant ?

He would have got a brilliant shot from a far better angle, hats of to him for being brave and passionate enough to get into the water, i wonder what his portfolio looks like.

He certainly believes in get as close as you can, could he be using a 70-200 as its a little short for a 200-500 ?

Is his action professional, thoughtful, respectful, did he understand photographic etiquette , or show a lack of respect for the Elks by getting to close and potentially scattering them ruining everything for everyone or did he feel everyone else was in the wrong position and didn't want to waste a brilliant chance ? Who Knows ..................but yes it happens often where someone ruins or potentially ruins it for everyone.

Clone him out of the picture or better still crop him out as it may makes a better image.

Only an opinion
 
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Don't be this guy! Knowing fully that there were photographers on the other side of the herd from him shooting from the shore he nevertheless jumped into the middle of the river and started taking his shots. He is not a touron who might be expected to have no understanding or regard for photographers. He's holding a Nikon camera and what appeared to be a Nikkor 200-500 lens. He ruined the shots of an Elk crossing for six to eight other photographers who were on the other side of the herd. It wasn't an accident. He saw us. He knew we were there, he just didn't care. I saw him later and thought to approach him but I was so angry I was afraid I'd hit him. He recognized me eyeballing him and he looked down towards the ground as he quickly walked away. Frankly, I wouldn't expect this from anyone on this website, but I thought it worthwhile posting in light of earlier posts regarding people blocking shots.
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At least his last shot could be his best...🦘
 
At least his last shot could be his best...🦘
Yes it could vary well be his last great shot LOL, but defiantly a brilliant opportunity and to get the light from behind or over his shoulder and the potential of them running across the water WOW.......hmmmm

When i do the WSL international surfing comps the beaches are packed, and at Snapper could get 10,000 spectators at times all on the beach right up to the shore line, in that situation educate is in the bin, its a free for all push shove nudge take no prisoners kind of event, i usually go left field very odd location take less shots miss routine coverage but aim to get few really unique killer money shots, after all there are many taking thousands of shots but editors/publishers look for that unique standout.......shot, today its becomeing all video they don't want stills anymore.

Getting close and tight sitting and waiting for wild life i find is often the best, but in this situation with the Elk's and with other photographers showing respect to the animals abiding by protocol and photographic etiquette all is a must.

Only an opinion
 
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