External recorders

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sh1209

sh1209

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I’ve looked at the Atomos Ninja and various other recorders for a while and I’m intrigued by them. Having said that, it would certainly add bulk and be something else to mess with. I’m wondering if they’re at all beneficial for stills or only video? I’ve also read some cameras have a slight performance loss whenever using one. If anyone on here has extensive experience with these, I will be glad to hear your thoughts and input and or recommendations.
 
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sh1209 said:
I’ve looked at the Atomos Ninja and various other recorders for a while and I’m intrigued by them. Having said that, it would certainly add bulk and be something else to mess with. I’m wondering if they’re at all beneficial for stills or only video? I’ve also read some cameras have a slight performance loss whenever using one. If anyone on here has extensive experience with these, I will be glad to hear your thoughts and input and or recommendations.
Click to expand...
Assuming you need the video recording functionality, nor just display, there is no beating the Ninja V+. Little use for stills, it doesn't even record those.
 
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If your interest is Video then you should review the Nikon Z9 Professional Setting Guide -- Video Edition. This shows what video types/formats can be exported via HDMI.
All formats can be recorded in-camera without overheating if fast cards are used, but less can be exported live.
I use an Atmos Ninja and Accsoon SeeMo (which works with my iPhone and iPad) - both use HDMI out from the camera.

Next is AUDIO - it is clear that a external 32-floating bit field audio recorder time-synced to the Z9 Video using an Ultra Sync Blue (or similar) and good microphones will provide far far far better audio than the on-board pre-amps and recording.

Next is EXPORTING - you can obviously export from the cards in the Z9 to many external devices -- but only to a HDD/SDD via an intermediary device.

Some trials have been run connecting a NVMe M.2 SSD via a CF-Express Adapter directly to the Camera. I have not tried this but I am aware of others who have.
 
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Andy Miller Photo UK said:
If your interest is Video then you should review the Nikon Z9 Professional Setting Guide -- Video Edition. This shows what video types/formats can be exported via HDMI.
All formats can be recorded in-camera without overheating if fast cards are used, but less can be exported live.
I use an Atmos Ninja and Accsoon SeeMo (which works with my iPhone and iPad) - both use HDMI out from the camera.

Next is AUDIO - it is clear that a external 32-floating bit field audio recorder time-synced to the Z9 Video using an Ultra Sync Blue (or similar) and good microphones will provide far far far better audio than the on-board pre-amps and recording.

Next is EXPORTING - you can obviously export from the cards in the Z9 to many external devices -- but only to a HDD/SDD via an intermediary device.

Some trials have been run connecting a NVMe M.2 SSD via a CF-Express Adapter directly to the Camera. I have not tried this but I am aware of others who have.
Click to expand...
I'll check that out. I thought it would be beneficial to have a larger screen especially while recording video since I'm 49Y/O and need bifocals lol.
 
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Nimi said:
Assuming you need the video recording functionality, nor just display, there is no beating the Ninja V+. Little use for stills, it doesn't even record those.
Click to expand...
So I had a curiosity what kind of cards do these use? Also, do you have to record raw or can you just record in the standard 4.22 codec?
 
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sh1209 said:
So I had a curiosity what kind of cards do these use? Also, do you have to record raw or can you just record in the standard 4.22 codec?
Click to expand...
I use the Atomos SSD, you can see how it's attached in this picture of my shoulder rig. It's a straight forward HDMI dump, so it can record anything the Z9 throws at it, pick whatever format you want. I record in N-Log.

DSCF0177.jpg
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Andy Miller Photo UK said:
If your interest is Video then you should review the Nikon Z9 Professional Setting Guide -- Video Edition. This shows what video types/formats can be exported via HDMI.
All formats can be recorded in-camera without overheating if fast cards are used, but less can be exported live.
I use an Atmos Ninja and Accsoon SeeMo (which works with my iPhone and iPad) - both use HDMI out from the camera.

Next is AUDIO - it is clear that a external 32-floating bit field audio recorder time-synced to the Z9 Video using an Ultra Sync Blue (or similar) and good microphones will provide far far far better audio than the on-board pre-amps and recording.

Next is EXPORTING - you can obviously export from the cards in the Z9 to many external devices -- but only to a HDD/SDD via an intermediary device.

Some trials have been run connecting a NVMe M.2 SSD via a CF-Express Adapter directly to the Camera. I have not tried this but I am aware of others who have.
Click to expand...
Andy, have you looked at the Tescam XLR converter for in-camera recording? The Z9 has a dumb hotshoe so it's an analog converter, unlike Fuji and Sony.
 
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Nimi said:
Andy, have you looked at the Tescam XLR converter for in-camera recording? The Z9 has a dumb hotshoe so it's an analog converter, unlike Fuji and Sony.
Click to expand...
The Canon, and Fuji versions use a data/power feed in their multi-function hot shoes -- I do not like these solutions. I prefer the TTL hot shoe on Nikon bodies. I am not aware of a dedicated Tascam for Sony.

While the Tascam (CA-XLR2d-AN ) takes Dual XLR in, provides 48V phantom power - it delivers analogue out via a 3.5mm output that you can use as microphone input for in camera recording this is therefore lower fidelity and the unit does not record. [Hence the need for/benefit of timesync]. This unit uses a pair of AA batteries for power.

There are far better performing field recorders than the Tascam CA-XLR2d at similar prices. Yes they are larger and should be used off camera.
I am yet to be convinced of the utility of the CS-XLR2d-AN beyond this.
I prefer to not have to use the hot shoe for the audiorecorder. Far better for a monitor or similar.

The best multi-input recorders from my use are the Sound Devices MixPre-3 II or MixPre-6 II and Zoom F3/F6. It really depends on the number of inputs you want to use and the quality. Obviously - ultimately one should select ones recorder capabilities to match the use case for your work -- 44.1khz 16-bit (possibly 24-bit) may be perfect (ie. the spec of the Z9 pre-amps and Analogue to Digital converters)
 
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Andy Miller Photo UK said:
The Canon, and Fuji versions use a data/power feed in their multi-function hot shoes -- I do not like these solutions. I prefer the TTL hot shoe on Nikon bodies. I am not aware of a dedicated Tascam for Sony.

While the Tascam (CA-XLR2d-AN ) takes Dual XLR in, provides 48V phantom power - it delivers analogue out via a 3.5mm output that you can use as microphone input for in camera recording this is therefore lower fidelity and the unit does not record. [Hence the need for/benefit of timesync]. This unit uses a pair of AA batteries for power.

There are far better performing field recorders than the Tascam CA-XLR2d at similar prices. Yes they are larger and should be used off camera.
I am yet to be convinced of the utility of the CS-XLR2d-AN beyond this.
I prefer to not have to use the hot shoe for the audiorecorder. Far better for a monitor or similar.

The best multi-input recorders from my use are the Sound Devices MixPre-3 II or MixPre-6 II and Zoom F3/F6. It really depends on the number of inputs you want to use and the quality. Obviously - ultimately one should select ones recorder capabilities to match the use case for your work -- 44.1khz 16-bit (possibly 24-bit) may be perfect (ie. the spec of the Z9 pre-amps and Analogue to Digital converters)
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
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sh1209 said:
I’ve looked at the Atomos Ninja and various other recorders for a while and I’m intrigued by them. Having said that, it would certainly add bulk and be something else to mess with. I’m wondering if they’re at all beneficial for stills or only video? I’ve also read some cameras have a slight performance loss whenever using one. If anyone on here has extensive experience with these, I will be glad to hear your thoughts and input and or recommendations.
Click to expand...

I tried the Ninja V+ on my A1 because I wanted to try Prores Raw, but sold it almost immediately due to the downsides. FIRSTLY, RAW formats -- especially Prores RAW -- generate extremely large file size....like 10x(!) the size of H265 files. SECONDLY, RAW video formats are just that -- RAW -- and don't have any noise reduction applied before saving, which means you have to do extra processing on the video files. And it's very difficult to see the benefits of 12-bit RAW vs a 10-bit codec. Very difficult. THIRDLY. most recorders are limited to 60p due to HDMI transfer speed limitations which means I can't record 120p or 240p which I like to do for wildlife. FORTHLY you have to figure out a way to mount the Ninja, storage unit PLUS battery and fuss with the HDMI cable, which dramatically adds to the size and weight of the camera and makes it really unwieldly in the field when stalking wildlife.

Like I said, I sold it pretty quickly. I'll only use cameras with good internal H265 codec storage, like the A1 or Z9,
 
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Garfield said:
I tried the Ninja V+ on my A1 because I wanted to try Prores Raw, but sold it almost immediately due to the downsides. FIRSTLY, RAW formats -- especially Prores RAW -- generate extremely large file size....like 10x(!) the size of H265 files. SECONDLY, RAW video formats are just that -- RAW -- and don't have any noise reduction applied before saving, which means you have to do extra processing on the video files. And it's very difficult to see the benefits of 12-bit RAW vs a 10-bit codec. Very difficult. THIRDLY. most recorders are limited to 60p due to HDMI transfer speed limitations which means I can't record 120p or 240p which I like to do for wildlife. FORTHLY you have to figure out a way to mount the Ninja, storage unit PLUS battery and fuss with the HDMI cable, which dramatically adds to the size and weight of the camera and makes it really unwieldly in the field when stalking wildlife.

Like I said, I sold it pretty quickly. I'll only use cameras with good internal H265 codec storage, like the A1 or Z9,
Click to expand...
On the Z9 you're better off recording NLog, use Nikon's LUT to convert to Rec 709 then correct and color. If you shoot at hi res, you can downsample in processing (as well as zoom and pan and add VR) and end up with a manageable size file. For Sony, same process except SLog which is phenomenal.
 
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Nimi said:
I use the Atomos SSD, you can see how it's attached in this picture of my shoulder rig. It's a straight forward HDMI dump, so it can record anything the Z9 throws at it, pick whatever format you want. I record in N-Log.
Click to expand...
Are you able to record N-RAW to the atomos? I have an original Ninja V and I haven't been able to figure out how to get it to record N-Raw video externally from my Z9
 
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Nimi said:
On the Z9 you're better off recording NLog, use Nikon's LUT to convert to Rec 709 then correct and color. If you shoot at hi res, you can downsample in processing (as well as zoom and pan and add VR) and end up with a manageable size file. For Sony, same process except SLog which is phenomenal.
Click to expand...

Yup, that's my standard workflow -- running H265 Nlog also means I'm not restricted to any particular editor unlike when shooting RAW. SLog3 has great DR, but's a bi*ch to fix if you blow the WB. I find Nlog more tolerant, but maybe that's just because the Z9 does a better job with auto daylight WB. I normally don't shoot auto WB but so far it's working OK on the Z9.
 
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Apropos, here is CindD's most recent tests. In summary, it has the best video capabilities of any hybrid and it continues to improve with every FW release (competition is basically Panasonic) on the market. The article convinced me to give Nraw another look.

www.cined.com

Nikon Z 9 N-RAW Lab Test (FW 3.00) - Rolling Shutter, Dynamic Range and Latitude | CineD

Here's our Lab Test of the Nikon Z 9 using internal N-RAW at 8.3K: Rolling Shutter, Dynamic Range and Latitude.
www.cined.com www.cined.com
 
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