Face/eye detect-AF on Z8

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NikonBiologist

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Yes, I know this forum is geared towards wildlife, but I figured some of y'all photo wild homo sapiens, too. How is the human face/eye AF on this camera? For background, I have a Z6 and OM-1. The Z6 can identify and track eyes if I'm really close to the person; it's ok, but nothing to write home about. My Fuji XH2S was better in the brief time I had it, as are sony's I've tried. My OM-1 can find the face reasonably well, and at a farther distance than the Z6, but it really has trouble finding the eye if the person is wearing a hat or has hair that covers the forehead or if in a little shadow. I did try the CAF+TR, which improved it, but it's no where near as good as the bird AF detection and I usually switch to single point.

I'm already learning towards consolidating and getting the Z8, and am mostly just curious if others here have any experience/insight to offer in regards to the Z8 (and Z9) capabilities in this regard. Thanks!
 
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I have the Z6ii, Z8 and Z9. 80% of the time I can't get the Z6ii to find a face/eye. The Z8/Z9 gets eyes/face just about all of the time. I'm a theatre photographer so I'd say that I never have had a problem getting the Z9 (and now the Z8) to lock on to a person any time the person was large enough in the frame to be considered a subject - and even times when it was too small to be the subject. For this last reason I definitely don't recommend auto area AF since that could lock on to a person when you didn't want it to.
 
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To be honest the Z8/Z9 have far superior AF and subject detection for Human Subjects than they do with any other type of subject

But as a catwalk shooter I know tells me — it is all about the lighting, the crazy head gear and the makeup.

The trick with a Z8/Z9 is to be ready to switch from one af-mode to another by -programming the FN 1 and FN2 BUTTONS to deploy other options instantly.

Like me, that shooter starts off with wide area - C1 with subject detection Humans enable - using a C1 box shape he specified to concentrate the AF Area on models walking towards him - like me he uses a half depressed shutter button. He like me, has allocated 3D tracking + AF-ON to the AF-ON button. This allows him to lock on to his subject and then recompose without losing lock or continuous af. However, we both grew up with DSLRs - so our FN1 button has Dynamic area small + AF-ON assigned to it. Just put the central point of the dynamic group onto you subject and keep your subject in the dynamic area. Dynamic area does not use subject detection and is the no1 solution when nothing else works.

Obviously you will need to practice to build muscle memory and get very good at using the joystick to move the AF box/point to achieve your desired composition while using the EVF.

One piece of advice -- please do not just shoot wide open -- my chum says - depending on the brief, he often has to stop down to ensure the banding, name etc is also recognisable and sharp as the model is only part way down the cat walk. Folk want the clothes, set/scenery to be recognisable -- not just the IRIS in focus. When the models are at their closest he has to shoot in a range of apertures depending on the lighting and the size of clothes/headwear.
 
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Back in the day it was never any bother not to have face or eye detect AF! Having said that I do sometimes use it on my Fuji XT-4s and Z6ii and I've found it OK. I think the trick with modern AF systems that are getting better (read more complex) all of the time is to know when to use the various focus modes and more importantly when not to use them.

FWIW - when you are so far away from someone that the eye is no being detected you will not notice if the eye is not pin sharp.
 
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dabhand16 said:
Back in the day it was never any bother not to have face or eye detect AF! Having said that I do sometimes use it on my Fuji XT-4s and Z6ii and I've found it OK. I think the trick with modern AF systems that are getting better (read more complex) all of the time is to know when to use the various focus modes and more importantly when not to use them.

FWIW - when you are so far away from someone that the eye is no being detected you will not notice if the eye is not pin sharp.
Click to expand...

Well back in the day my AF point spread was tiny. And even farther back we didn’t have af, but I digress. With the z6 i can be relatively close and it still doesn’t grab their eye and I can tell it’s not in focus. And with the om1 i can have a large part of the person in the frame (larger than full body portrait) and it won’t grab the eye—I can tell the eye isn’t in focus then. Sure there are work arounds of course, but my question was just about the z8 eye af.
 
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The Z8/Z9 will give you numerous benefits over the Z6, including much better eye AF and tracking of the faces and eyes. They really are three times the camera than the Z6 is in my opinion and well worth the price.
 
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NikonBiologist said:
Well back in the day my AF point spread was tiny. And even farther back we didn’t have af, but I digress. With the z6 i can be relatively close and it still doesn’t grab their eye and I can tell it’s not in focus. And with the om1 i can have a large part of the person in the frame (larger than full body portrait) and it won’t grab the eye—I can tell the eye isn’t in focus then. Sure there are work arounds of course, but my question was just about the z8 eye af.
Click to expand...

The times that I've used eye AF with my Z6ii it has worked well. I would expect the Z8 to be better.
 
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I was shooting a loon a few weeks ago and way beyond the bird was a single rowing shelI and I for nothing better to do pointed the camera and 500 mm lenstoward the shell and even on animal detect the AF box went immediately to the head of the rower, and stayed there. Yes, all around the rower and shell was water or sky, but the human in the frame was a tiny fraction of the area covered. AF detect works wildly well in my experience. Is it perfect, does it have the ability to read the photographer's mind and choose the 'right' subject when there are multiple (animal or people) in the frame? No but the chase to perfection ruins most everything :) I had a Z6 for a few months; sweet camera, but my DSLR (D6) had better AF tracking. Good luck with your decision. But really, the AF in the Z9 (and thus the Z8 which at the moment even has some advantages) will simply blow your mind , certainly in comparison to what you've shot before. Again, it ain't "perfect" but who wants it to be -- gotta leave room for the photographer's decisions to play into things! Cheers!
 
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Photo Journalism and Sport Photography have a core priority of R&D in Nikon Imaging for decades. We know this has recently included close collaboration of Nikon engineers with Agency France Press in developing the D6 and Z9.

Autofocus improvement has been a priority in both cameras, including the inventing and refining Custom Area Mode with Eye and Face Recognition software. Humans appear to be the primary subjects (also cats and dogs!).

Bottom line, the AF in the Z9 AF subject recognition has its deep roots in algorithms introduced into the professional DSLRs, but it's been improved and expanded significantly.

報道の最前線、その先へパート1 | ストーリーズ | Nikon 企業情報

報道写真の世界を長年支援してきたニコン。世界4大通信者の一つAFP通信とニコンのパートナーシップについてご紹介します。
www.jp.nikon.com

www.digitalcameraworld.com

The Nikon Z9 might not have been possible without the feedback of top photographers

Nikon partnered with the global news agency Agence France-Presse to improve the Nikon Z9 flagship camera
www.digitalcameraworld.com www.digitalcameraworld.com
 
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Andy Miller Photo UK said:
To be honest the Z8/Z9 have far superior AF and subject detection for Human Subjects than they do with any other type of subject

But as a catwalk shooter I know tells me — it is all about the lighting, the crazy head gear and the makeup.

The trick with a Z8/Z9 is to be ready to switch from one af-mode to another by -programming the FN 1 and FN2 BUTTONS to deploy other options instantly.

Like me, that shooter starts off with wide area - C1 with subject detection Humans enable - using a C1 box shape he specified to concentrate the AF Area on models walking towards him - like me he uses a half depressed shutter button. He like me, has allocated 3D tracking + AF-ON to the AF-ON button. This allows him to lock on to his subject and then recompose without losing lock or continuous af. However, we both grew up with DSLRs - so our FN1 button has Dynamic area small + AF-ON assigned to it. Just put the central point of the dynamic group onto you subject and keep your subject in the dynamic area. Dynamic area does not use subject detection and is the no1 solution when nothing else works.

Obviously you will need to practice to build muscle memory and get very good at using the joystick to move the AF box/point to achieve your desired composition while using the EVF.

One piece of advice -- please do not just shoot wide open -- my chum says - depending on the brief, he often has to stop down to ensure the banding, name etc is also recognisable and sharp as the model is only part way down the cat walk. Folk want the clothes, set/scenery to be recognisable -- not just the IRIS in focus. When the models are at their closest he has to shoot in a range of apertures depending on the lighting and the size of clothes/headwear.
Click to expand...
I tried this today and found it pretty easy to use. Do you also use this setup for birds by just changing the Subject Detection to animals?
 
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My Z6II is good (good) at face / eye detect on human subjects certainly in adequate light, and certainly better with faster lenses (2.8 or faster). Very useable on humans for close & medium shots. Not as good with some dogs / cats (dark eyes with darker fur). I do love the Z6II and have no plans to part with it, it's a phenomenal all-arounder body. Ideal as a secondary and backup body (for my needs). I've shot plenty of indoor performance events with crazy lighting and fast action, and it delivers what I need.

So the Z8 on day 1, even before setting it up properly - within 2 minutes exceeded my expectations. Right away it was locking in on eyes of moving subjects and I instantly felt like the camera was working WITH me - not against me. It's on a whole different level. Much less "negotiating" with AF modes / settings on the fly. And I'm only in the context of AF tracking on people here. This camera is packed with other features that I never dreamed I'd have.
 
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Andy Miller Photo UK said:
To be honest the Z8/Z9 have far superior AF and subject detection for Human Subjects than they do with any other type of subject

But as a catwalk shooter I know tells me — it is all about the lighting, the crazy head gear and the makeup.

The trick with a Z8/Z9 is to be ready to switch from one af-mode to another by -programming the FN 1 and FN2 BUTTONS to deploy other options instantly.

Like me, that shooter starts off with wide area - C1 with subject detection Humans enable - using a C1 box shape he specified to concentrate the AF Area on models walking towards him - like me he uses a half depressed shutter button. He like me, has allocated 3D tracking + AF-ON to the AF-ON button. This allows him to lock on to his subject and then recompose without losing lock or continuous af. However, we both grew up with DSLRs - so our FN1 button has Dynamic area small + AF-ON assigned to it. Just put the central point of the dynamic group onto you subject and keep your subject in the dynamic area. Dynamic area does not use subject detection and is the no1 solution when nothing else works.

Obviously you will need to practice to build muscle memory and get very good at using the joystick to move the AF box/point to achieve your desired composition while using the EVF.

One piece of advice -- please do not just shoot wide open -- my chum says - depending on the brief, he often has to stop down to ensure the banding, name etc is also recognisable and sharp as the model is only part way down the cat walk. Folk want the clothes, set/scenery to be recognisable -- not just the IRIS in focus. When the models are at their closest he has to shoot in a range of apertures depending on the lighting and the size of clothes/headwear.
Click to expand...
Hi Andy, I've been thinking about this. If I have wide area - C1 for my half pressed shutter button and then press the AF-On button, which has 3D tracking, when I press the shutter button, won't it revert back to wide-area - C1 and refocus with that before taking the photo?
 
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Many Feathers said:
Hi Andy, I've been thinking about this. If I have wide area - C1 for my half pressed shutter button and then press the AF-On button, which has 3D tracking, when I press the shutter button, won't it revert back to wide-area - C1 and refocus with that before taking the photo?
Click to expand...
No, the other programmed button, in your case af-on overrides the af function programmed to shutter button.
 
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Many Feathers said:
Hi Andy, I've been thinking about this. If I have wide area - C1 for my half pressed shutter button and then press the AF-On button, which has 3D tracking, when I press the shutter button, won't it revert back to wide-area - C1 and refocus with that before taking the photo?
Click to expand...

Hi -- NO it will not switch back while the programmed button is pressed. BUT it will switch back if the programmed button is released.

This is all part of the AF "Hand-off" technique which we Z8/Z9 shooters learn to relish -- simply put:

Shutter Button to AF-ON Button or any other programmed button (ie AF mode + AF-ON -- new button takes over AF-MODE determination and AF-ON.

AF-ON button or programmed button to another programmed button -- the Other programmed button takes over ONLY after the first button is released. Please combine AF-mode + AF-on on ALL the programmed buttons you want to use.

Releasing the programmed button while still half pressing the shutter button switches back to the general AF-mode chosen that is activated when the shutter button is pressed.
 
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@Many Feathers one other thing to consider when programming the additional, af methods, consider whether you want it to activate af or just switch the area mode while pressing the custom button. I also use shutter button af and have 3D + AF-On on the AF-On button but on my fn-1 button with wc1, I have it to just af Area so af activation is on halfpress of shutter button. I would suggest experimenting to see which setting you prefer.
 
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abc123brian said:
@Many Feathers one other thing to consider when programming the additional, af methods, consider whether you want it to activate af or just switch the area mode while pressing the custom button. I also use shutter button af and have 3D + AF-On on the AF-On button but on my fn-1 button with wc1, I have it to just af Area so af activation is on halfpress of shutter button. I would suggest experimenting to see which setting you prefer.
Click to expand...
There is so much to figure out. I did put AF-area mode +AF-On on Fn1 and I think I like it that way so it starts autofocusing right away. I find it somewhat difficult to hold down Fn1 and the AF-On button and then shutter release to take the photo...3 fingers :)
 
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