Failed BIF sequence

[vulpess]

Hi all!

A while ago I posted a thread where I was pondering a bit about whether or not I should move on from my current gear (D500 + Tamron 150-600 G2).
Since then, nothing has really changed and I think I have managed some nice photos with my current gear. Saying that, I actually did pick up a used 300 PF for a good price which is excellent (albeit a bit short for most of the small birds).

Now to my current "issue": Last weekend, I had the opportunity to take photos of a grey plover, which is a rare bird here in Scandinavia and was actually my first sighting of one.
Light was awful and perfect photos out of the question, however, it made some fly bys and I thought I managed to grab a few nice in-flight shots.
I then got this sequence of 18 photos out of which only one (1) was in focus. Not too long ago, I switched from Group AF to Auto Area AF as my go-to BIF focusing method after reading quite a few comments on this forum about how good Auto Area was on the D500, and until now I have liked it a lot.
So, I used Auto Area AF here as well but it seems as if it was totally useless in this case.

I mean, I probably should have used Group AF in this case, however, I just wondered whether the rather slow Tamron 150-600 maybe just wasn't up to the task since the D500 is supposed to be the best in business as far as DSLRs go?!
Quite disappointed, since I think there would have been a good photo or two in the sequence if in focus.

What would be your opinion on who is to blame here?
- The photographer
- The camera
- Wrong AF mode
- The lens

Here is an overview over the whole sequence with active AF points, the only in-focus image is file 9236 in the bottom left corner. I have also uploaded unedited jpgs to a OneDrive folder here in case anyone wants to have a closer look.

On a brighter note, the plover posed nicely for some stationary shots:

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[Wes Peterson]

Hi all!

A while ago I posted a thread where I was pondering a bit about whether or not I should move on from my current gear (D500 + Tamron 150-600 G2).
Since then, nothing has really changed and I think I have managed some nice photos with my current gear. Saying that, I actually did pick up a used 300 PF for a good price which is excellent (albeit a bit short for most of the small birds).

Now to my current "issue": Last weekend, I had the opportunity to take photos of a grey plover, which is a rare bird here in Scandinavia and was actually my first sighting of one.
Light was awful and perfect photos out of the question, however, it made some fly bys and I thought I managed to grab a few nice in-flight shots.
I then got this sequence of 18 photos out of which only one (1) was in focus. Not too long ago, I switched from Group AF to Auto Area AF as my go-to BIF focusing method after reading quite a few comments on this forum about how good Auto Area was on the D500, and until now I have liked it a lot.
So, I used Auto Area AF here as well but it seems as if it was totally useless in this case.

I mean, I probably should have used Group AF in this case, however, I just wondered whether the rather slow Tamron 150-600 maybe just wasn't up to the task since the D500 is supposed to be the best in business as far as DSLRs go?!
Quite disappointed, since I think there would have been a good photo or two in the sequence if in focus.

What would be your opinion on who is to blame here?
- The photographer
- The camera
- Wrong AF mode
- The lens

Here is an overview over the whole sequence with active AF points, the only in-focus image is file 9236 in the bottom left corner. I have also uploaded unedited jpgs to a OneDrive folder here in case anyone wants to have a closer look.

View attachment 46837

On a brighter note, the plover posed nicely for some stationary shots:View attachment 46838

Auto area on the D500 isnt great for bird in flight. A D5 or D6 is a different story. But the D500 should have been in group for these shots.

 

[Snapshot2020]

In my opinion for a number of years of shooting BIF with the D500 and using a 200-500, 300PF and the 500PF my best keeper rate has been with Group Focus Mode. The subject you photographed is small in the frame and most likely the Auto Area Focus has locked onto the Water in the Background.

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

Entirely the end users fault !!

In this case as other had said Group AF might have worked "better" but only if the end users had been able to put the subject under the group/AF Area.

Auto Area AF can be more than a little annoying when there are "distractions" in the frame -- so OK for use in clear skies but far less so when shooting with waves or other distractions, which is precisely what we see here.

If you use Dynamic Area AF (d25, d72,and d153) and the subject is not directly under the central point of the group when you engage AF-ON then the camera will go for the best area of contrast/friendliest AF Target -- which means that Dynamic Area AF is great for open skies, but easily confused when water/waves are in the group AND the D500 has a strong bias towards whatever is under the central point of the area and will seemingly randomly appear to switch to this point even if your subject is in the area if what is under the central point is higher contrast/more attractive to your camera's AF system.

Since none of the images posted show this to have happened the results would have most likely been the same -- although when using Area AF the reported focus point may not be the actual point of focus. When shooting BIF in open skies use an AF-mode that locks onto the "closest" subject -- otherwise any bright contrast can pull focus away.

So OP -- No 1 learn your camera, No 2 go out and build the skill to lock on and track BIF (if this is your interest) using GROUP AF and practice this until your hit rate is greater than 50%, then 75%, then 90%.

Anyone has to understand their camera and how, in particular, its AF system works in practice -- list means learning, then setting up their camera for success and practicing and testing until they have built the skills and muscle memory to just be able to shot and adapt to what works at the time.
I am seeing a lot of threads blaming gear or inferring there is a fault or "an issue" -- yes the fault is with the end user.

There is no point in you buying a longer lens or much more expensive gear until you have done this. But it is your choice. AND Yes the subject is way to small in the frame for you to have a useable image -- but the issues you would face with a much longer focal length are vastly greater than you had with the gear you have, which should have worked ok.

I suggest you look at Mark Smith's vid AND Steve Perry's book on Secrets to the Nikon AF Autofocus system.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I agree with those above that say Group AF is the better choice for birds in flight with your set up. I used a Tamron 150-600 G2 on a D500 and D850 for years and tried Auto Area AF a couple of times with poor results.

On my D500, D850 and D6 my default on focus with half press on the shutter release was single point AF area mode and then a function button set to change to group af. Some do the opposite. I used single point af on large birds in flight most of the time to keep from grabbing a wing tip instead of the head or eye on an eagle, heron, goose sized bird.

I now use a Z9 and Z6II but I put a lot of good bird in flight shots on the card and on my and other walls with the D500 and Tamron 150-600 G2.

 

[vulpess]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

Pretty clear consensus here, so I will gladly take the blame for this one

As I said in the opening post, I have been using Auto Area lately insted of Group and have been really surprised about how it did with swallows and skylarks in flight. Most of these situations have been against the sky, so I probably was misled by that. However, I thought (or hoped at least) the rather plain sea background wouldn't be distracting enough for the Auto Area. **** happens, will go for Group next time.

If you use Dynamic Area AF (d25, d72,and d153) and the subject is not directly under the central point of the group when you engage AF-ON then the camera will go for the best area of contrast/friendliest AF Target -- which means that Dynamic Area AF is great for open skies, but easily confused when water/waves are in the group AND the D500 has a strong bias towards whatever is under the central point of the area and will seemingly randomly appear to switch to this point even if your subject is in the area if what is under the central point is higher contrast/more attractive to your camera's AF system.

I agree on the focus of the central point in dynamics modes. Steve pointed this out in his ebook and I think the bias is a bit to strong, so I have not really used these modes too much.

No 2 go out and build the skill to lock on and track BIF (if this is your interest) using GROUP AF and practice this until your hit rate is greater than 50%, then 75%, then 90%.

Yes, definately a weakness in my skillset!

AND Yes the subject is way to small in the frame for you to have a useable image -- but the issues you would face with a much longer focal length are vastly greater than you had with the gear you have, which should have worked ok.

Here I disagree, but that will be down to personal standards I guess. I think there was a good photo in there if the focus would have been okay. Obviously nothing NatGeo would print but something I would have been happy with. And longer focal lengths would never have helped here, I agree! I mean, 600mm on a DX camera is massive already, and in some cases even too much I think. The only possible gear update would have been a faster lens (500 PF or something) in case the lens speed was to blame or a mirrorless with better tracking capabilities. Without ever having used something like an a1/9, Z9 or R3, I would guess they could have produced some in-focus shots in the given circumstances.

I suggest you look at Mark Smith's vid AND Steve Perry's book on Secrets to the Nikon AF Autofocus system.

Thanks, I have watched a few of Mark's video and have read Steve's book on the AF system and the BIF book. Main errors here were wrong focus mode and subpar tracking technique, otherwise I am pretty confident that I have set up my camera in a good way

 

[Larry Shuman]

I use either D21 or D9 when I'm doing BIF photography. I am using older cameras and I'm getting great results. I know from the occasional 8x11 print my stuff is capable of being printed at 11x17, 16x20 and even 24x48. Technique is very important and your skill in panning is gained thru experience.

 

[Kumar A]

Auto area on the D500 isnt great for bird in flight. A D5 or D6 is a different story. But the D500 should have been in group for these shots.

Yes group focus works best for BIF on a D500

 

[arbitrage]

Group AF is great but for all my very challenging BIF I used Auto AF the large majority of the time on D500 and D850. In the OPs sequence I likely would have used Auto also and I feel I would have had much better results. Granted I used native Nikon glass (200-500, 300PF, 500PF, 500E) so don't know if the Tamron lens is part of the problem with the OP's sequence?

 

[TonyF]

I'm wondering whether the lens is significant factor too. Some panning/tracking practice looks like its needed although it gets tricky when the bird is erratic and Auto AF cant quite grab/maintain focus against reasonably unclutterd backgrounds. I cant comment any further on Autro AF, because I didnt use it enough, but I can say that the D500 group AF can be incredibly good (sometimes astounding) at picking up the likes of ringtails and short eared owls at distances you would not expect it to amongst/around the clutter in challenging (moorlands) foregrounds/backgrounds. But this experince all came using a PF500.

 

[Calson]

When I spent hours photographying two osprey going to and from their nest and using a D500, D850, and D5 camera with a 80-400mm lens it became quite obvious that the D5 was faster to autofocus than the other two cameras. The downside is that with a DX or APS-C crop the D5 becomes a 9MP camera as compared to 19MP with the D850 or 20.9 with the D500.

With BIF I had the most success with either Group AF or with DAF 25 point with these cameras. Group AF will grab onto the part of the subject that is closest so not a perfect fix but one has to accept the percentages and hope for the best. I was actually happy with how well Group AF worked with the D850 as it was worthless with earlier DSLR cameras.

 

[SteveReid]

With that setup shooting BIF I would use shutter priority auto ISO at 600MM or set at 1/3200 if not 1/4000 auto ISO. These are the best tips I ever got when I first started shooting BIF, start at the 14 minute mark.

 

[Roy]

Hi all!

A while ago I posted a thread where I was pondering a bit about whether or not I should move on from my current gear (D500 + Tamron 150-600 G2).
Since then, nothing has really changed and I think I have managed some nice photos with my current gear. Saying that, I actually did pick up a used 300 PF for a good price which is excellent (albeit a bit short for most of the small birds).

Now to my current "issue": Last weekend, I had the opportunity to take photos of a grey plover, which is a rare bird here in Scandinavia and was actually my first sighting of one.
Light was awful and perfect photos out of the question, however, it made some fly bys and I thought I managed to grab a few nice in-flight shots.
I then got this sequence of 18 photos out of which only one (1) was in focus. Not too long ago, I switched from Group AF to Auto Area AF as my go-to BIF focusing method after reading quite a few comments on this forum about how good Auto Area was on the D500, and until now I have liked it a lot.
So, I used Auto Area AF here as well but it seems as if it was totally useless in this case.

I mean, I probably should have used Group AF in this case, however, I just wondered whether the rather slow Tamron 150-600 maybe just wasn't up to the task since the D500 is supposed to be the best in business as far as DSLRs go?!
Quite disappointed, since I think there would have been a good photo or two in the sequence if in focus.

What would be your opinion on who is to blame here?
- The photographer
- The camera
- Wrong AF mode
- The lens

Here is an overview over the whole sequence with active AF points, the only in-focus image is file 9236 in the bottom left corner. I have also uploaded unedited jpgs to a OneDrive folder here in case anyone wants to have a closer look.

View attachment 46837

On a brighter note, the plover posed nicely for some stationary shots:View attachment 46838

Group Af is my go-to for BIF on the D5 D500 and D850 bodies.
The D500 is pretty good in low light. I've had much more trouble with mirrorless cameras.
It might be worth checking your lens alignment...

 

[vulpess]

Group AF is great but for all my very challenging BIF I used Auto AF the large majority of the time on D500 and D850. In the OPs sequence I likely would have used Auto also and I feel I would have had much better results. Granted I used native Nikon glass (200-500, 300PF, 500PF, 500E) so don't know if the Tamron lens is part of the problem with the OP's sequence?

Thanks for your comment, @arbitrage! Maybe it was even a comment of yours somewhere on the forum that made me try Auto Area?! As stated in the original post, I kind of wonder whether the Tamron is a weak point in the setup, but I guess that will remain speculation as I can't really test against another lens in the same situation.

With that setup shooting BIF I would use shutter priority auto ISO at 600MM or set at 1/3200 if not 1/4000 auto ISO. These are the best tips I ever got when I first started shooting BIF, start at the 14 minute mark.

Shutter speed was 1/3200 so I don't think it was the issue here. I shoot manual with auto ISO.

It might be worth checking your lens alignment...

The lens is calibrated with the tap-in console. But the focus is way too far off to be solely a calibration issue in this case.

 

[EricBowles]

I agree - Group would have been the correct choice. Think about it this way - you want to narrow the amount of the frame that the camera searches for a subject. Group is a relatively concentrated area - and has the added benefit of nearest subject priority so you would choose the bird over the water in the background. With Area, the camera is trying to analyze the entire frame looking for a subject, and likely is incorporating scene recognition. It probably determined this is a landscape scene if it chose a scene at all.

There is another problem with AF Area. Almost all the AF points it uses won't work at f/6.3. Here is the layout of AF sensors at f/6.3. Your lens is a variable zoom and is f/6.3 at 600mm. That's the same layout as a 600mm f/4 lens with the 1.7 TC.
Here is the link for reference: https://nps.nikonimaging.com/technical_solutions/d500_tips/af/focus_points/

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

One of the main reasons to use Group is you can put the group selection in the center of the frame and all of the AF points used will actually work at f/6.3. With area, unless the subject is in this limited number of AF sensors, focus is unreliable. It may work, but not consistently with lots of hunting.

So you ask about the lens being the problem, and to some extent it is. You need to work within the limitation of your lens and AF system. This applies in a similar form to all DSLR cameras. One of the big advantages of the Nikon mirrorless cameras is you can use any AF point with f/6.3 or even f/8. It won't guaranty the shot, but gives you a chance.

The other option is to use a lens that is wide open at f/5.6. That's why I chose the 200-500 over the 150-600 options. Reach is not always better - there are tradeoffs.

 

[Tom Reynolds]

You did not get the focus point on the bird except once when you were on the bottom of the lower wing. It is clear that you can't track properly with your D-500/150-600.

Neither could I with a D-7200/150-600 Sigma, even with a monopod. I then switch to a D-500/500pf, sat on a walkstool and shot in GRP. I landed these shots every time, not 100% but close.

My vote is wrong equipment for this user attempting this shot.

Tom

 

[Roy]

Thanks for your comment, @arbitrage! Maybe it was even a comment of yours somewhere on the forum that made me try Auto Area?! As stated in the original post, I kind of wonder whether the Tamron is a weak point in the setup, but I guess that will remain speculation as I can't really test against another lens in the same situation.

Shutter speed was 1/3200 so I don't think it was the issue here. I shoot manual with auto ISO.

The lens is calibrated with the tap-in console. But the focus is way too far off to be solely a calibration issue in this case.

Probably wrong but maybe the aperture was too wide and the depth of field didint quite cover the subject...