Vicintheshed
Member
Excuse my newbieness, but what’s this ‘handing off’ focus thing I keep seeing.
Handing off ?
- Thread starter Vicintheshed
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Can you post a link to an example or something with full context?
Personally, I haven't heard anything about 'handing off' with regards to photography focus but could imagine that being used in some context as in: "I just set up eye tracking AF and hand off the AF responsibilities to the camera instead of manually moving the active AF point" or something like that.
Maybe it's a brand specific thing but I have no idea what that expression means relative to my Nikon or Sony cameras.
It is a term referring to the ability to achieve focus with one type of AF mode and then "hand off" that focus to another type of AF mode. For instance, achieve focus with Wide-Small and then handing focus off to a different AF mode.
Ah, OK. Never heard that before. I will sometimes achieve approximate focus with manual and then go to AF. Especially if my camera seems to be hung up on the background.
Jeff
Okay, now I am really confused. I thought this was the big deal with the issues with FW 3.0, that the handoff wasn't working correctly.
Wasn't there a thread on this yesterday as well? I can't find anything today so I posted pretty much the same info today.
This is how I understand the handoff and again I will speak on shooting track and field this weekend. I use a small custom AF area mode with subject detection on, I can position a specific athlete under that area and my Z9 will find the face/eye of the targeted athlete, the problem is I have to maintain the athlete in that custom AF area mode to maintain focus on that athlete. I have a lens function button programmed for AF on + 3D so when I have identified the chosen athlete using the custom AF mode and the face/eye focus point is established, I can hold the lens function button and 3D focus point will lock onto the already established face/eye focus point. Now under 3D focus mode I don't have to worry about the athlete leaving the custom AF area mode.
At least that is the way I think it works, but I might be totally wrong.
Wasn't there a thread on this yesterday as well? I can't find anything today so I posted pretty much the same info today.
This is how I understand the handoff and again I will speak on shooting track and field this weekend. I use a small custom AF area mode with subject detection on, I can position a specific athlete under that area and my Z9 will find the face/eye of the targeted athlete, the problem is I have to maintain the athlete in that custom AF area mode to maintain focus on that athlete. I have a lens function button programmed for AF on + 3D so when I have identified the chosen athlete using the custom AF mode and the face/eye focus point is established, I can hold the lens function button and 3D focus point will lock onto the already established face/eye focus point. Now under 3D focus mode I don't have to worry about the athlete leaving the custom AF area mode.
At least that is the way I think it works, but I might be totally wrong.
I just read your response quickly, but it appears to me that you are "handing off" focus from Wide-Small mode to 3D focus mode. Same thing I do with birds....... And yes, it does work.
I don't understand the confusion. Unless you mean you give up on Wide-small and then find focus starting over again with 3D.......
But it is late for me and I am off to bed.
AF-On will start AF all over again.
It’s possible to handover without AF-On, I believe
It’s possible to handover without AF-On, I believe
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
Not if you set the AF persistence setting to Auto. By doing this you are directing the camera to continue the AF tracking from where you left with the earlier mode. Let’s say you use wide-S and acquire your AF, say eyes and now you want to do a hand off from wide-s to 3D or Auto area AF so that the camera can track the subject throughout the moment you press the over ride button to which you assigned 3D/Auto AF, the latter will take over the AF point from where the wide-S left instead of starting the AF acquisition/ tracking from the scratch.
And what if I’m not setting the latter to AF-ON? What would happen?
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
So, when the Z9 was launched, many of the early users had a problem when using Auto area AF or 3D tracking because the AF modes were looking for subjects to acquire AF throughout the frame. Consequently there were lot of instances where the AF would lock on to background or other distractions instead of the subject. So we figured a work around for this issue and used an AF mode with a smaller AF box (‘like wide-S or L) to let the camera limit the area within which it should look for subjects or eyes. Once the AF lock/ eyes was acquired successfully, we then switch to auto/ 3D modes so that the camera can now track the subject throughout the frame instead of limiting to smaller boxes. This term was referred to as hand-off/ hand over and has now become almost an official definition with the Z9 users lol.
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
You mean you just have a button programmed for another AF area mode only instead of ‘AF-ON+AF area mode’? I’m not quite sure what happens because all the AF overrides I have set up are “AF-ON+AF Area mode”. If you use AF-ON as a dedicated function and then use only AF area modes with other buttons, I guess you will have to press both the buttons to lock focus. Not 100% sure though as I have never used this option.
Hudson Henry does this…Auto Area AF on the shutter button and 3D on the AF On button on the back. There’s a custom setting for handoff that you need to turn on. Start with half press on shutter and once it has grabbed the subject press AF On and it will switch to 3D and track. That’s the only way I’ve actually read that people use this capability though…
Vicintheshed
Member
I shall thank everyone and try this technique .
I shoot manual with auto ISO and AF-C. I have a7 focus point persistence on auto to help facilitate "hand off" from one AF Area mode to another. I have animal subject detection on.I have my buttons for AF-Area Mode and AF set to:
Shutter half press wide-area AF C1 sized to 5x3.
AF/ON button to AFArea mode 3D + AF-ON
Fn1 button to AFArea mode single point + AF-ON
Fn2 button to AFArea mode to AF Area Mode + AF-ON
For birds in flight if from my experience the bird, background, distance etc. I select which AF-area mode I will start with and change as needed while I am shooting.
Many times I will use shutter release button focus wide area AF C1 5x3 only.
Other times I start with C1 5x3 and when in focus hand off to 3D or AF Area mode both work quite well but I use 3D for more precision and auto area for situations of erratic flight or multiple birds where I want to change from one bird to the another.
I seldom use single point AF on BIF but will if I want precision and animal detection off.
After FW 3.01 and now with FW 3.1 I now frequently go directly to 3D or AF Area mode directly by pushing the button I have set.
For focus help I make sure I have good exposure and even start to adjust as I bring the camera to my eye if I now I will need to move my ev up (I have my lens control ring set to adjust EV) or change shutter speed.
I also have a button on the lens programmed to toggle between FX and DX and find that can help with AF.
I also have my video record button programmed to toggle subject detection on and off.
Shutter half press wide-area AF C1 sized to 5x3.
AF/ON button to AFArea mode 3D + AF-ON
Fn1 button to AFArea mode single point + AF-ON
Fn2 button to AFArea mode to AF Area Mode + AF-ON
For birds in flight if from my experience the bird, background, distance etc. I select which AF-area mode I will start with and change as needed while I am shooting.
Many times I will use shutter release button focus wide area AF C1 5x3 only.
Other times I start with C1 5x3 and when in focus hand off to 3D or AF Area mode both work quite well but I use 3D for more precision and auto area for situations of erratic flight or multiple birds where I want to change from one bird to the another.
I seldom use single point AF on BIF but will if I want precision and animal detection off.
After FW 3.01 and now with FW 3.1 I now frequently go directly to 3D or AF Area mode directly by pushing the button I have set.
For focus help I make sure I have good exposure and even start to adjust as I bring the camera to my eye if I now I will need to move my ev up (I have my lens control ring set to adjust EV) or change shutter speed.
I also have a button on the lens programmed to toggle between FX and DX and find that can help with AF.
I also have my video record button programmed to toggle subject detection on and off.
Rjdane2
Active member
I don’t like the handoff mode personally. For birds in flight and wildlife I have wide area large set to af-on button, fn1 is single point and fn2 is 3d. I’ll just switch between the three as needed. I have fn3 set to switch between fx/dx to make my subject higher to aid in autofocus.
Lately I have been playing around with auto af mode (assigned to joystick press) because you can set the af lock on “stickiness” to 5 and have less of a chance to jump to background over 3d which defaults to 3. I wish they would allow you to change the lock-in for 3d being it gives you a good starting point with the af box.
Lately I have been playing around with auto af mode (assigned to joystick press) because you can set the af lock on “stickiness” to 5 and have less of a chance to jump to background over 3d which defaults to 3. I wish they would allow you to change the lock-in for 3d being it gives you a good starting point with the af box.
fcotterill
Well-known member
Strictly applied, Handing Off the Autofocus describes the custom setup of the Nikon Z9 to initiate AF on the shutter button, and Hand off to a different AF mode on the AFOn or a Fn button. As said already, it's to help the tracking AFMode grab the right subject.
Many of us using Back button (BBAF) setup have a similar method - the trusty Hybrid Focus setup - using any of 2 or more alternative AFmodes. This uses BBAF, so activation of the shutter release button is completely independent of any control driving the Autofocus.
As best memory serves, Nikon's release of the D5 Triumvirate (D5 and D500 early 2016, D850, Aug2017) added the options to set AFMode+AFon to custom controls (Pv, Fn1, Fn2, LensFn). As Nikon suggested in their Sports AF Guide, these minor additions unlocked the potential to switch between the different AFmodes as fast as one's reflexes permit...and they're obvious advantages to keep focus on fast moving subjects, and recovering focus if an athlete or animal is hidden and/or moving among obstructions.
The hybrid focus setup is enhanced somewhat in the D6; as Nikon recommended in the D6 Sports AF guide, enabling a13:Focus Point Persistence in Custom settings to avoid changing focus points.
In the Z9, a Hybrid Focus custom setup helps recover focus on a subject by toggling between tighter AF modes (eg Dynamic or Group, especially CA, or Single-point) and the 3D Tracking or Auto modes, which use the entire screen. Although Nikon state the Focus Persistence (a7) setting only works using AF on Shutter Release [aka Handing Off style] I find focusing using BBAF works just fine: first on a subject (eg a bird) with single point, Custom Group Area or Dynamic, then when the AF point grabs the target, I toggle to AutoAF or 3d mode
More in these threads:
bcgforums.com
bcgforums.com
More recent: https://bcgforums.com/index.php?threads/getting-used-to-the-nikon-z8.25178/post-285951
bcgforums.com
Many of us using Back button (BBAF) setup have a similar method - the trusty Hybrid Focus setup - using any of 2 or more alternative AFmodes. This uses BBAF, so activation of the shutter release button is completely independent of any control driving the Autofocus.
As best memory serves, Nikon's release of the D5 Triumvirate (D5 and D500 early 2016, D850, Aug2017) added the options to set AFMode+AFon to custom controls (Pv, Fn1, Fn2, LensFn). As Nikon suggested in their Sports AF Guide, these minor additions unlocked the potential to switch between the different AFmodes as fast as one's reflexes permit...and they're obvious advantages to keep focus on fast moving subjects, and recovering focus if an athlete or animal is hidden and/or moving among obstructions.
The hybrid focus setup is enhanced somewhat in the D6; as Nikon recommended in the D6 Sports AF guide, enabling a13:Focus Point Persistence in Custom settings to avoid changing focus points.
In the Z9, a Hybrid Focus custom setup helps recover focus on a subject by toggling between tighter AF modes (eg Dynamic or Group, especially CA, or Single-point) and the 3D Tracking or Auto modes, which use the entire screen. Although Nikon state the Focus Persistence (a7) setting only works using AF on Shutter Release [aka Handing Off style] I find focusing using BBAF works just fine: first on a subject (eg a bird) with single point, Custom Group Area or Dynamic, then when the AF point grabs the target, I toggle to AutoAF or 3d mode
More in these threads:
Z9 back up camera
This old thread has returned just as I realized how challenging it is to use any Nikon Z body other than the Z9. I was perfectly happy with Z6/Z7 (I or IIs) when I was shooting them w/ a D500 for fast wildlife. About a year ago I reluctantly purchased a Z9 (price reluctance) and sold all my...
bcgforums.com
Back Button AF With Mirrorless: Yes Or No?
Once upon a time, when DSLRs roamed the land, Back Button AF was the automatic go-to for many - even most - photographers. However, with mirrorless taking over at a blistering pace, things are changing. Many are questioning the wisdom of using BBAF and, indeed, many have switched back to shutter...
bcgforums.com
More recent: https://bcgforums.com/index.php?threads/getting-used-to-the-nikon-z8.25178/post-285951
Nikon Z9/8 Hybrid Handover Question
I want to confirm this. (in Ver. 3.10) BBF will ONLY override/hand over from the shutter button. When pressing any FN buttons set to a different AF Area mode or AF Area mode + AF ON, Pressing BBF or half-press shutter will NOT override the FN button. In other words, the way to hand it over is...
bcgforums.com
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Well partially yes -- It is more correct to say "hand off involves transferring from one activated Af-mode to another while tracking a subject" It matter not how one has initiated AF-on (shutter, af-on button or some other button) OR which other button uses to initiate the hand off. BUT - there are some behavioural differences. AND you need to choose how you set up your camera/lenses and practice the associated actions until you have built considerable muscle memory.
In all cases one is using AF-C (not Manual Focus or Single Focus (AF-S).
For example: If one has chosen an Af-mode and uses a half depression of the shutter button to activate this, and one has chosen to assign another Af-mode (like 3D-tracking) to the AF-ON button then the hand-off is seamless -- there is no pause the new made takes over immediately. This is true for any "hand-off" from the shutter button to another button -- some of us use lens buttons, Fn1, Fn2 and Fn3 each with an assigned AF-mode with AF-ON.
HOWEVER -- if one uses an AF-Mode activated with AF-ON on a button and choses to switch to another mode with AF-ON assigned to another button then the first button has to be released before the AF-mode is switched to the new button.
WHY might one choose to do this AND why might one choose to allocate turning subject detection ON or OFF to a button (using ones only Shooting Recall Hold allocation for this purpose).
So WHY hand of -- this is the BIG one -- no camera will pick your subject for you it is your job to place your subject under the focus point/area that is JOB #1 you can then chose to hand off to, say, 3D-tracking which gives you more freedom to accommodate movement and to compose the shot the way you want it. Sure one can use Auto Area or another area AF mode -- but this faces challenges when there are multiple potential subjects in the frame at similar distances from the camera. AND what if the subject you want to shoot is not the closest to you nor the highest contrast (both of which tend to attract the AF -- in all makes and types of camera). SO the first reason is control. My reason includes the fact that I am generally useless when I start with 3-D tracking (my preferred AF-mode for moving subjects and when my camera is also not so stable)
The 2nd reason is that in some circumstances your subject may not be as accessible to the camera as, for example, a nearer leaf or branch or blade of grass, which the camera may identify as being part of the subject -- so you have to go hunting for the precise point of focus on the objects in the frame you want the camera to focus on. Thousands of reasons why a camera's Subject Detection Af system can become confused or distracted by the environment and the lighting and the body/head position of the subject why SD may not immediately lock on. AND there are known issues with all AF systems -- not least long blades of grass being close to or in front of the eyes of the subject and the Z9 having a tendency to "like" them more than to look through to the actual eyes. (I understand this is not just an issue for th4e Z9 but I only shoot Nikon -- and I wonder if in tweaking the Z9's AF to be less background happy the Nikon engineers maybe placed "too high" a weighting on objects closer in the frame). In Kenya with big cats walking through very tall grass in low light and backlit I found I was obtaining better results Manually Focussing then handing off to 3D (or staying in MF) but this is only good if shooting wide open with a very long lens when the subject is moving slowly. Action, which tends to occur at unpredictable distances, has to be shot in continuous AF.
Why use the ability to turn Subject Detection on and Off. As Steve states in his book (and these forum) when you use AF-Area Modes with SD engaged the AF-system looks for the subject, its eye, its head its body etc... and compares what is in the AF-area (including 3-D tracking) with "shapes" or patterns in the camera's large (but not infinite) database and if there is a reasonably good match the AF-system locks on. BUT what happens when the subject you want to shoot is not recognised by the camera as a subject -- well the behaviour can become a little more random. "hopefully" the camera "defaults" to the traditional behaviour associated with the AF-Area -- which is most often the closest high contrast object within the area attracts focus. When using 3D-tracking without SD enabled - the camera looks to track the same shape of contrast/colours that are under the 3-D tracking AF-point across the frame.
SD works brilliantly when it works and needs to be dropped quickly when it does not otherwise you will waste time --hence why I allocate SD on/off to the movie record button.
I found with some leopards in africa SD was not perfect every time -- I suspect this was more frequent when the pattern of the leopard's spots included large spots and the subjects eyes were closed or not both looking at the camera -- it also is impacted in mixed lighting when there were "appealing" brighter areas of fur not on the head -- for example as the leopard was progressing through woods etc.. Some animals -- rhinos and a few others can be a struggle.
It is very important to know which AF modes grab the closest subject in the chosen area (Wide-Area AF) and which prioritised the central point of your selected area (Dynamic area AF), which just focus under a point (single AF point) or which hunts across the whole sensor for any subjects (Auto-area) and be able to switch to one of these quickly by use of programmable Fn buttons.
Obviously picking a relatively small area and moving this to fit your composition "helps" the camera to "hunt" in the right place. Using Single Point or the Smallest AF areas to pick one face in a line is the only way to go if when you can. [The smallest dynamic area that just covers your subject is recommended for groups and complex backgrounds. Whereas Wide-areas will prioritise the closest subject]
Learn how to switch between potential AF targets when multiple boxes appear in the viewfinder and build the muscle memory. Just about everything else you should need can be done by using programmable FN buttons AND building the muscle memory for the times the adrenaline is flowing and the shots matter.
And so on.......