How is this camera lens choice

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GaryD

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I posted about a trip to costa rice earlier on this forum for camera and lens recommendations.
Here is what I'm thinking of getting.
Nikon D500 used like new condition $1200.00
Nikon 300mm f2.8 used ex cond $3000.00
Teleconverter latest version not priced yet
Do you think this will work good in the low light rain forest of costa rica birds are my main interest.
what are your thought about the nikon 200-500 zoom lens ?
 
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GaryD said:
I posted about a trip to costa rice earlier on this forum for camera and lens recommendations.
Here is what I'm thinking of getting.
Nikon D500 used like new condition $1200.00
Nikon 300mm f2.8 used ex cond $3000.00
Teleconverter latest version not priced yet
Do you think this will work good in the low light rain forest of costa rica birds are my main interest.
what are your thought about the nikon 200-500 zoom lens ?
Click to expand...
Yes it would work. I suspect that even the 300 with crop body won’t be enough power. I know Steve mentioned he uses his 600 all the time there. I can tell you this, I sold a D500 with OE grip in box 14k clicks for $900. I also sold a mint Nikon 300f2.8 non VR version (lightest af version of the 300) with a 1.4 TCII for $2700. Shop around you can save some money.
It might be worth renting a big lens and buy a nice used body. I’d consider a 180-400 to rent and buy a D850 or D5. You have to decide how often would you use this gear beyond your trip? I’d want time learning the body before a trip so that’s worth buying over renting.
 
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GaryD said:
I posted about a trip to costa rice earlier on this forum for camera and lens recommendations.
Here is what I'm thinking of getting.
Nikon D500 used like new condition $1200.00
Nikon 300mm f2.8 used ex cond $3000.00
Teleconverter latest version not priced yet
Do you think this will work good in the low light rain forest of costa rica birds are my main interest.
what are your thought about the nikon 200-500 zoom lens ?
Click to expand...
The 200-500 is a great lens for the price but not the fastest focusing lens and in a dense canopy of CR I’m not sure I’d want anything slower then f4.
 
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GaryD said:
I posted about a trip to costa rice earlier on this forum for camera and lens recommendations.
Here is what I'm thinking of getting.
Nikon D500 used like new condition $1200.00
Nikon 300mm f2.8 used ex cond $3000.00
Teleconverter latest version not priced yet
Do you think this will work good in the low light rain forest of costa rica birds are my main interest.
what are your thought about the nikon 200-500 zoom lens ?
Click to expand...
I took a 300 f2.8 and a teleconverter and I found it a bit short on reach. I would take my 500PF and 70-200 zoom now.
 
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I think the 200-500 focuses fast enough if you set the D500 up right. I set up the PV button for Group focus and typically have the BBF button set for D25. If the 200-500 is set for 6M-infinity, the 200-500 is faster than I am with BIF when I use the PV button. The D25 focus mode is noticeably slower, but appropriate for sitting birds and IME very good at grabbing focus of partially-obscured fowl. At least at my limited skill level, the 200-500 is as good as I can take advantage of. For the ninja masters on this site it may be limiting, but for a dull-normal birder like me it is certainly not the rate-limiting reagent.
 
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tclune said:
I think the 200-500 focuses fast enough if you set the D500 up right. I set up the PV button for Group focus and typically have the BBF button set for D25. If the 200-500 is set for 6M-infinity, the 200-500 is faster than I am with BIF when I use the PV button. The D25 focus mode is noticeably slower, but appropriate for sitting birds and IME very good at grabbing focus of partially-obscured fowl. At least at my limited skill level, the 200-500 is as good as I can take advantage of. For the ninja masters on this site it may be limiting, but for a dull-normal birder like me it is certainly not the rate-limiting reagent.
Click to expand...
I went with this setup D500 and the 200-500 because I'am just out to have fun
 
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Over the past 3 decades, Nikon has made a succession of different 300 f2.8's. The latest is the G VR II, which I bought Used (until it was traded in 3 years ago toward a 400 f2.8). It worked really with TC14 II and the images were very satisfactory with TC2 III on a D500. Nikon released the latest TC2 with this lens
https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-300mm-f2-8g-vr-ii/5

I also used these TC combos as my main telephoto with a Df and then D850. It is important to try and be disciplined and not shoot subjects at too far a distance - easy advice as birds and mammals don't read this stuff. Also fine tune the lens and with each TC.

I could handhold this combo on a gripped D500 or D850 but I always found the 2.9kg 300 f2.8G distinctly end heavy; so either I have learnt to manage heavy lenses better but the 3.8kg 400 f2.8E seems more stable because it is better balanced. So using a monopod with a light gimbal (eg Jobu Jnr) will be a big help.

I have a fair number of keepers with this lens, and most were with a TC usually shot 600 f5.6, which confirms I always needed more 'reach' in my situation!
A DX image does not cope at all well with cropping, especially if the image has already been magnified by a Teleconverter. I also agree a 600 is preferable but nearly 1kg heavier and a lot more expensive. Either of 200-500 or 500 PF is also often just too short and you need a TC, but the f8 combination takes a noticeable focus penalty with a DSLR. A Used D850 is worth considering if you can afford it. It gives slightly better lowlight tolerance (ISO6400 is about maximum in most cases vs 3200 with the D500). And a D850 also gives you more cropping flexibility (subject to penalties of increased noise).

Lensrentals compared the fast 300 primes https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/07/supertelephoto-mtf-curves/ and they compared the Nikkor recently against the 120-300 f28E SR to confirm it is still an excellent prime.
 
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GaryD said:
I went with this setup D500 and the 200-500 because I'am just out to have fun
Click to expand...
I think you chose wisely, grasshopper. The next big questions are how to carry the rig all day without getting too tired and how to support the lens while you're in the field.
I use a no-longer-sold Tenba slingbag (the current one is a full backpack while mine is a single-strap job that is very comfortable and easy to access) for lugging equipment on a hike.
I have not found a shoulder strap that I can actually see fitting into my use model -- the Black Rapid straps seem to require unscrewing the thing that holds the lens to the strap before you can mount your camera on a 'pod, which means it is no more available for use if you employ a 'pod than it would be in the Tenba sling -- and the Tenba is very comfortable when hiking. The Peak Design straps appear to attach where your camera strap does, which means that your lens is not being supported by anything but the camera mount AFAICT.
I use a monopod with a gimbal for birding (lock the panning motion of the gimbal when using a monopod.) The monopod is a useful hiking stick while getting where you are going.
I am far from the most experienced birder in the world, but these basic choices have worked well for me so far. FWIW
 
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If you have a D500, it already adds 1.5 magnification to your FX lenses. I recommend the Nikon 80-400mm f4-5.5 lens. It is much smaller and lighter than the 200-500 and more versitile. Focusing distance ranges from lesss than 4 feet at 80mm to less than 8 feet at 400mm. If you can afford it, follow Steve Perry's recommendation and get a gimbal tripod head for a tall, sturdy tripod. It provides fast, full range of motion to follow moving animals and helps in low light situations. If you have sunlight, the 80-400 is easy to hand-hold. (Do a llttle arm strengthening in advance to get longer, steadier holds.) I had a D850 with 200-500mm lens. Hand-holding it takes strength and it its heavy to carry for any distance outside of a shoulder bag or backpack. Add a tripod and the weight igoes up. The older long telephotos, like the 400mm are much bigger and heavier. Happily the trend is toward smaller and lighter lenses with better optics.
 
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I have been to Costa Rica 12 or 14 times (I'd have to look back in my journals). All have been trips for photography, or a mix of photography and research with students. I have brought just about every possible combination of equipment that includes 300mm f/4 w/ 1.4x converters on film bodies, 300mm f/2.8 w/ 1.4 and 2x converters on FX digital & DX digital bodies, 200-400VR on FX/DX, 200-500 on FX/DX, and 500mm lenses w or w/out converters on FX/DX bodies.
You will have the capacity to make compelling images with just about any combination of high quality telephoto lens and digital camera body. In Costa Rica, subject isolation & subject to camera distance is everything. If your subject is visibly isolated from foreground and background elements, a modest amount of cropping will not negatively impact your final photos. Of all my camera / lens combinations, I preferred the 200-400 f/4 on a D500 to anything else. Sure the 500mm lens allowed for a narrower field of view, but the 200-400 allowed for flexible composition and f/4 isolation. I, however, lean more towards mammal photography than birds. Were I a bird specialist, the 500mm (and beyond) would be my preference.
As for your selection of lenses, you should be able to buy an Ex or Ex+ 300mm f/2.8 VRI or VR2 for $2000 to $3000. There are currently one of each for sale on the FM buy sell board as well as from KEH and MPB. You can use the 2x converter in a pinch, but the images are not nearly as nice as when using a TC14iii. A D500 w/ TC14iii will yield and effective 630mm focal length. A 200-500VR will yield a 300-750mm field of view. If you are photographing birds on sets (common in workshops), then the 200-500 w/tripod is probably your best for flexible composition. You will be able to prefocus, and the AF speed will be quick enough. If, on the other hand, you are shooting more serendipitously (this is more in line w/ my photography), I suggest you go w either the 3002.8 w/ converters, 200-400 (no converters), or 500PF (no converters). All three of the latter lenses have fast AF motors and are weather sealed.
I'm linking my Costa Rica portfolio (not updated from my recent pair of trips)... All of the wildlife was shot w/ either a 300mm f/2.8 (+/- converters) or 200-400mm lens.
One more thing... bring a wide angle zoom lens (24-70 or 24-120 or...), the landscape photography can be quite stunning.

regards,
bruce
 
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BLev65 said:
I have been to Costa Rica 12 or 14 times (I'd have to look back in my journals). All have been trips for photography, or a mix of photography and research with students. I have brought just about every possible combination of equipment that includes 300mm f/4 w/ 1.4x converters on film bodies, 300mm f/2.8 w/ 1.4 and 2x converters on FX digital & DX digital bodies, 200-400VR on FX/DX, 200-500 on FX/DX, and 500mm lenses w or w/out converters on FX/DX bodies.
You will have the capacity to make compelling images with just about any combination of high quality telephoto lens and digital camera body. In Costa Rica, subject isolation & subject to camera distance is everything. If your subject is visibly isolated from foreground and background elements, a modest amount of cropping will not negatively impact your final photos. Of all my camera / lens combinations, I preferred the 200-400 f/4 on a D500 to anything else. Sure the 500mm lens allowed for a narrower field of view, but the 200-400 allowed for flexible composition and f/4 isolation. I, however, lean more towards mammal photography than birds. Were I a bird specialist, the 500mm (and beyond) would be my preference.
As for your selection of lenses, you should be able to buy an Ex or Ex+ 300mm f/2.8 VRI or VR2 for $2000 to $3000. There are currently one of each for sale on the FM buy sell board as well as from KEH and MPB. You can use the 2x converter in a pinch, but the images are not nearly as nice as when using a TC14iii. A D500 w/ TC14iii will yield and effective 630mm focal length. A 200-500VR will yield a 300-750mm field of view. If you are photographing birds on sets (common in workshops), then the 200-500 w/tripod is probably your best for flexible composition. You will be able to prefocus, and the AF speed will be quick enough. If, on the other hand, you are shooting more serendipitously (this is more in line w/ my photography), I suggest you go w either the 3002.8 w/ converters, 200-400 (no converters), or 500PF (no converters). All three of the latter lenses have fast AF motors and are weather sealed.
I'm linking my Costa Rica portfolio (not updated from my recent pair of trips)... All of the wildlife was shot w/ either a 300mm f/2.8 (+/- converters) or 200-400mm lens.
One more thing... bring a wide angle zoom lens (24-70 or 24-120 or...), the landscape photography can be quite stunning.

regards,
bruce
Click to expand...


Enjoyed your port folio very much, organic, natural, real, great compositions, thank you for sharing

Oz down under
 
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GaryD said:
I posted about a trip to costa rice earlier on this forum for camera and lens recommendations.
Here is what I'm thinking of getting.
Nikon D500 used like new condition $1200.00
Nikon 300mm f2.8 used ex cond $3000.00
Teleconverter latest version not priced yet
Do you think this will work good in the low light rain forest of costa rica birds are my main interest.
what are your thought about the nikon 200-500 zoom lens ?
Click to expand...


There is not a lot of difference between hand holding and using a light mono pod No gimble, a mono pod is just a few stops better than hand holding.

Oz down under
 
BLev65 said:
I have been to Costa Rica 12 or 14 times (I'd have to look back in my journals). All have been trips for photography, or a mix of photography and research with students. I have brought just about every possible combination of equipment that includes 300mm f/4 w/ 1.4x converters on film bodies, 300mm f/2.8 w/ 1.4 and 2x converters on FX digital & DX digital bodies, 200-400VR on FX/DX, 200-500 on FX/DX, and 500mm lenses w or w/out converters on FX/DX bodies.
You will have the capacity to make compelling images with just about any combination of high quality telephoto lens and digital camera body. In Costa Rica, subject isolation & subject to camera distance is everything. If your subject is visibly isolated from foreground and background elements, a modest amount of cropping will not negatively impact your final photos. Of all my camera / lens combinations, I preferred the 200-400 f/4 on a D500 to anything else. Sure the 500mm lens allowed for a narrower field of view, but the 200-400 allowed for flexible composition and f/4 isolation. I, however, lean more towards mammal photography than birds. Were I a bird specialist, the 500mm (and beyond) would be my preference.
As for your selection of lenses, you should be able to buy an Ex or Ex+ 300mm f/2.8 VRI or VR2 for $2000 to $3000. There are currently one of each for sale on the FM buy sell board as well as from KEH and MPB. You can use the 2x converter in a pinch, but the images are not nearly as nice as when using a TC14iii. A D500 w/ TC14iii will yield and effective 630mm focal length. A 200-500VR will yield a 300-750mm field of view. If you are photographing birds on sets (common in workshops), then the 200-500 w/tripod is probably your best for flexible composition. You will be able to prefocus, and the AF speed will be quick enough. If, on the other hand, you are shooting more serendipitously (this is more in line w/ my photography), I suggest you go w either the 3002.8 w/ converters, 200-400 (no converters), or 500PF (no converters). All three of the latter lenses have fast AF motors and are weather sealed.
I'm linking my Costa Rica portfolio (not updated from my recent pair of trips)... All of the wildlife was shot w/ either a 300mm f/2.8 (+/- converters) or 200-400mm lens.
One more thing... bring a wide angle zoom lens (24-70 or 24-120 or...), the landscape photography can be quite stunning.

regards,
bruce
Click to expand...
Wow! Amazing portfolio.
Can’t argue with advice like that.
 
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GaryD said:
I posted about a trip to costa rice earlier on this forum for camera and lens recommendations.
Here is what I'm thinking of getting.
Nikon D500 used like new condition $1200.00
Nikon 300mm f2.8 used ex cond $3000.00
Teleconverter latest version not priced yet
Do you think this will work good in the low light rain forest of costa rica birds are my main interest.
what are your thought about the nikon 200-500 zoom lens ?
Click to expand...
The D500 with a 200-500mm lens has to be the best value wildlife/sports combo available.
 
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BLev65 said:
Thank you very much! :)
Click to expand...

Photos in many cases today are sometimes so sharp and dynamic and so detailed and therefore appear somewhat unnatural bordering on being clinical or like a scan, hence they feel a little cold and have no engagement or hold interest after the WOW.
Nice to see some real work.


Only a personal opinion
Oz down under
 
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fcotterill said:
Over the past 3 decades, Nikon has made a succession of different 300 f2.8's. The latest is the G VR II, which I bought Used (until it was traded in 3 years ago toward a 400 f2.8). It worked really with TC14 II and the images were very satisfactory with TC2 III on a D500. Nikon released the latest TC2 with this lens
https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-300mm-f2-8g-vr-ii/5

I also used these TC combos as my main telephoto with a Df and then D850. It is important to try and be disciplined and not shoot subjects at too far a distance - easy advice as birds and mammals don't read this stuff. Also fine tune the lens and with each TC.

I could handhold this combo on a gripped D500 or D850 but I always found the 2.9kg 300 f2.8G distinctly end heavy; so either I have learnt to manage heavy lenses better but the 3.8kg 400 f2.8E seems more stable because it is better balanced. So using a monopod with a light gimbal (eg Jobu Jnr) will be a big help.

I have a fair number of keepers with this lens, and most were with a TC usually shot 600 f5.6, which confirms I always needed more 'reach' in my situation!
A DX image does not cope at all well with cropping, especially if the image has already been magnified by a Teleconverter. I also agree a 600 is preferable but nearly 1kg heavier and a lot more expensive. Either of 200-500 or 500 PF is also often just too short and you need a TC, but the f8 combination takes a noticeable focus penalty with a DSLR. A Used D850 is worth considering if you can afford it. It gives slightly better lowlight tolerance (ISO6400 is about maximum in most cases vs 3200 with the D500). And a D850 also gives you more cropping flexibility (subject to penalties of increased noise).

Lensrentals compared the fast 300 primes https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/07/supertelephoto-mtf-curves/ and they compared the Nikkor recently against the 120-300 f28E SR to confirm it is still an excellent prime.
Click to expand...


WOW a DF, now i thought i was the last person on earth that still had one LOL, it was my super low light performer to partner my D3X, i wanted something light small to take images in all conditions anytime and with the D4 sensor it simply delivered with in so many cases just unique stunning images. It just had a certain look using large pixels harnessing all that light.

It doesn't have 10 or 11 fps, but gee whiz it didn't miss much, its not the latest technology and its not an A I but i let the photos do the talking.
Now i am using a D850 after selling the D4s D5 with no regret.

Oz down Under
 
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GaryD said:
I posted about a trip to costa rice earlier on this forum for camera and lens recommendations.
Here is what I'm thinking of getting.
Nikon D500 used like new condition $1200.00
Nikon 300mm f2.8 used ex cond $3000.00
Teleconverter latest version not priced yet
Do you think this will work good in the low light rain forest of costa rica birds are my main interest.
what are your thought about the nikon 200-500 zoom lens ?
Click to expand...

You can use a sensor to take you to the subject by cropping hard, or a longer lens to bring the subject to you. The D850 /D5 is a good bench mark.
The D850 is a better option than the D500 as it can do DX and or 45mp up to 9fps, it also has far better ISO and image quality so that's a very versatile dynamic tool with a sate of te art sensor and accurate colours.

The glass, OK, the 200-500 is not as sharp or good in very low light as a 300 2.8, the 200-500 is excellent around F8. Its a brilliant lens i love mine.
The 300 2.8 is tack sharp at 2.8. really unless you use it at F2.8 its not a real benefit unless your allways in super low light.
ie: if you set them up side by side one lens will need more iso than the other.

The 300 2.8 with the optional 1.4 III would be best on a D850 so you can crop another 200mm equivalent. Not so much using a D5 or D500 by comparison.
The 200-500 is not really comfortable with a TC, while teh 1.4 TC III works its a bit slower to focus.. Your only compromise would be super low light in which case a D5 or Z6II both are very capable of delivering great ISO to 12800, the D850 to 6400 plus.

A 2 x TC III on a 300 2.8 is OK but dose not seem as good as 1.4 III.

My kit is D850 200-500, 70- 200 FL, 24-70, 14-24...........300 2.8 VR II, the VR II has slightly better colour and micro contrasts than the NON VR version.

Don't get to hung up on eye tracking and BIF tracking unless you want to spend money to have it or need it.

Personally i would stay with the D850

A 300 F4 is brilliant at 300mm and OK with a 1.4 TC III this would give you small light and F5.6 wide open..... this lens and TC on a D850 will add 200mm in crop-ability.

Now that i have confused your more than ever LOL
If you want to catch many different species with good quality images and don't mind cropping then the D850 in FX mode with a 1.4 TC III on a 300 PF is an awesome agile combo, remember you have 200mm in crop ability in reserve you will appreciate that, you wont necessarily get from the D500 so to speak..

Good Luck.

Only an opinion as always

Oz down under
 
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Roy said:
The Df is favourite amongst forensic photographers.
I still use mine from time to time - it's less intimidating than a D850 or D4...
Click to expand...

WOW forensic photographers that's amazing .............i wonder why........
I use mine for city street scape and yes when i don't want to get noticed especially on a 50mm 1.4 D or 50mm Ziess 1.4, it just fits nicely in my coat front pocket.
Or i take the 16mm fish eye and 28-300, just love it i float the iso to 8,000.

Oz down under
 
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