I have a dilemma here, print or lens?

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Hi all,

I'd love your input here on a dilemma I'm facing at the moment.
I have put aside $3000 to purchase the 100-400mm Z lens when Nikon decides to launch it... maybe this year, maybe next year... who knows :unsure:. Anyway...
The problem is that I am more and more interested in printing my images because I'm starting to get tired of only being able to see them on a screen. On some screens the images look to dark, others to bright, others colors seems to be off... in some ways it's a bit disappointing when you spend hours/days sitting on an image, looking at it in Lightroom/Photoshop till you finally feel conformable with the editing and then, depending the screen you use to look at that photo, you wonder if that is indeed the best color, the best brightness, contrast you could have.

Been looking at the Canon Pro 1000 printer, which as far as I could read, is considered the best printer out there for the hobbyist and even professional photographer.
The "printing" investment that I would need to do would be a little higher than $2000 because I would not only need to buy the printer but also a new monitor since the ones I currently have none is 100% RGB.

So my question to you all is, what would you do? I know this is a personal choice, but from different point of views, we can better make a decision.
a) You grab the $3k you have put aside for the Z lens and invest in the printer because that lens can be months away to be released and in the mean time you can learn the art of printing, learn the art of editing for print?
b) You wait for the lens, keep photographing with the lens you have, keep learn the art of photography, keep getting out of the house, so when you get the 100-400, your photography knowledge will be higher, your images will be better, and more worthwhile to be printed?

Have you ever had some money set aside for something and all of the sudden you have an itch that will only stop when you spend that money? :whistle:

Thanks
I don’t know what other lenses you have, so it’s hard to suggest the best route for you, but for me, every time it would be the lens over a printer. I do print some of my images, but have found that I get better results (and more printing options) by outsourcing to a quality professional printer. I’ve also found it more economical, since you need to factor in the cost of toner ($$$), stock, and mistakes when you do your own printing. Everyone’s needs are different but that’s what works best for me. Good luck!
 
I can't suggest what you should do but I will add my two cents worth from my perspective.

I love new gear and adding a lens to your collection may allow you to capture images you can't now. The problem is that the 100-400 Z lens hasn't even been officially announced yet. It is on the lens roadmap, but will it be available in 2022, and what will the cost and specs really be? Not that you should jump to something else if that zoom range is important to you, just know it might be awhile before the lens is released. I am over 65 and I don't have much "wait until next year" left in me!

I calibrate my monitors and I do believe that color calibration is very important but I don't have a really expensive monitor. I sometimes think that if I work really hard on how I want an image to look and allow people to view it on their monitors, 20% or less will see the image the way I want them to see it. If you are entering competitions, doing work professionally, or having photos critiqued by other photographers, very high quality monitors properly calibrated are very important. I just think that sometimes we work really hard for color exactness only to share the image online and possibly lose the color we worked so hard to attain. That being said, the better your color accuracy the easier it will be for you to print using online services.

I have been printing images myself for many years. I have two photo inkjet printers, one Epson that will print 13x19 and a Canon Pixma that will do 8x10. These printers are each 8+ years old but I have a lot of fun with them. I don't use them to print images that I am going to hang on my wall permanently, for that I use a commercial service, especially with the many options available today. I do print a lot of images that will hang temporarily around our home in many of the crafty photo displays my wife likes to find. These are photos of our family and images we have captured on the many trips we have taken. They get changed out fairly regularly and they are for our enjoyment only. I could care less what others think about the print quality and color match, I print them as accurately as I can remember the scene, then I try to capture new images to replace them.

I think at times we get too caught up in the specs and the "pro" needs and lose sight of what makes digital photography so much fun!

Just my thoughts, but what is important is that you do what is best for you!
 
Completely agree with this. I had a pretty nice high end printer that didn’t get used enough and would cost me $75 a pop for cartridges when it didn’t get enough use. M

If I want a print now, I send it to a printer.

I'm using a Canon PIXMA Pro 9000 which was a gift from a friend who was no longer interested in using it. It had sat for two years unused and when I started it up there were no clogged nozzles.
 
I would first buy a really good photo editing monitor that can be calibrated (not hard to do). I have the BenQ and am really happy with it. The few times I print an image I do it at a professional lab and they come back looking just like they did on my monitor. I have my own website to post the images that I want to keep and that works for me.

I don't print my own because my previous experience (many years ago) was that printing images was another hobby all in itself! I'm sure today's modern printers are a lot easier to use, but I don't have any experience with them.

And I am a very itchy person! I just ordered the Nikon Z6 II and ordered the new 105mm Macro lens that just came out. That is after buying the 500 PF a month ago.

I need therapy!
Which BenQ model did you purchase and why?
 
I'm using a Canon PIXMA Pro 9000 which was a gift from a friend who was no longer interested in using it. It had sat for two years unused and when I started it up there were no clogged nozzles.
Agreed. The modern printers have introduced both cleaning routines and chemistry to minimize that. No issues on my last few.
 
I have the BenQ 27" photo editing monitor
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1360177-REG/benq_27_sw271_uhd_4k.html?sts=pi-ps&pim=Y

1. Not too big...Not too small. Really big monitors make me a little nauseous!
2. REALLY good reviews from a lot of different sources. (I over-research things!!!)
3. Easy to calibrate with a Datacolor SpyderX pro (really easy!)
4. Reasonable price point $1100
5. No "post-purchase dissonance" .... I know I got a great monitor for a good price
6. Reasonable desktop footprint
7. LOOKS COOL!
8. Really good monitor for general computer work.

Would I buy it again?? 100% yes.
 
Great monitor by all accounts.... price down under AUD$2500.
To the OP , I’d buy the lens, consider the monitor (depending on what you already have) and out-source the printing.
 
Any of the photography monitors on this page will give excellent results. They are not all UHD, but HD is fine for photography. I have the 27" 2700 and like it a lot. The 24" is a bargain but you will appreciate the extra room on the 27". Just double check which colorimeter models are compatible with the model you want. Most are. I run the spyderx on mine using the Benq software. I send out to print but if you want to profile printers you need to spend a little more on the calibration device. The i1 studio is often recommended for that but I haven't tried it. Benq has a chat help to answer any question, they helped me decide.


 
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Slightly different perspective: If you want to control all aspects of the presentation of your work and you produce a lot of it, printing is a neccessity. While there are a few really good printing services out there, Professional Digital Imaging near Boston and DodgeCrome here in Washington, DC come to mind, feedback is slow compared to printing at home,. Evaluating the print and in most cases reprinting is IMHO part of a perfectionist workflow. Whether this matters to you is personal but it does to me.

That said, the care and feeding of a professional printer can be difficult and expensive. While the profiles provided by the paper manufacturers have improved there is still a benefit to making your own. These printers don't like to sit idle and the costs involved in dealing with head clogs can be breathtaking. The cartridges for my Canon cost $ 178 and there are 12 of them! A fifty-foot roll of my goto paper is ~ $ 370. My endpoint is exhibition in photo exhibitions, an area in which I've had some success but, as a business matter, not so much. My photo kit is limited compared to those of many who post here but sufficient to my needs. If I were a wildlife photographer I would require more glass, faster camera bodies and lighter tripods.

If I were starting out in printing I would as others here have suggested start with a really good photo monitor and a way to calibrate it. I would learn Photoshop or Capture One Pro. I would spend some time establishing a relationship with the lab I plan to use and calibrate my workflow to match theirs. I would seek out workshops or courses in digital printing from nearby colleges or destination ones from places like Maine Media College or John Paul Capinigro. When I taught digital printing as a grad student at GMU there were always a few non-matriculating older students taking advantage of being able to audit my class for free.

To sum up get a good monitor and a means of calibration, take courses or participate in workshops to learn to post-process in Photoshop or Capture One Pro, start by having prints made by a good lab and then, if you feel the need, go all in and purchace a professional printer. Which one? That's a whole different story.
 
I gave up on doing my own print making years ago. While I enjoyed it, I found a less expensive way to make better prints by using a quality lab. (and I did not have to keep making prints to keep the nozzles from clogging.) I use Aspen Creek Photo, now part of Bay Photo. The key is to prepare the image properly on a calibrated monitor and use print profiles (or their equivalents) supplied by the third party printer so yo know that what you transmit via the internet is what you will get. Use your $$$ on the lens.
 
Hi all,

I'd love your input here on a dilemma I'm facing at the moment.
I have put aside $3000 to purchase the 100-400mm Z lens when Nikon decides to launch it... maybe this year, maybe next year... who knows :unsure:. Anyway...
The problem is that I am more and more interested in printing my images because I'm starting to get tired of only being able to see them on a screen. On some screens the images look to dark, others to bright, others colors seems to be off... in some ways it's a bit disappointing when you spend hours/days sitting on an image, looking at it in Lightroom/Photoshop till you finally feel conformable with the editing and then, depending the screen you use to look at that photo, you wonder if that is indeed the best color, the best brightness, contrast you could have.

Been looking at the Canon Pro 1000 printer, which as far as I could read, is considered the best printer out there for the hobbyist and even professional photographer.
The "printing" investment that I would need to do would be a little higher than $2000 because I would not only need to buy the printer but also a new monitor since the ones I currently have none is 100% RGB.

So my question to you all is, what would you do? I know this is a personal choice, but from different point of views, we can better make a decision.
a) You grab the $3k you have put aside for the Z lens and invest in the printer because that lens can be months away to be released and in the mean time you can learn the art of printing, learn the art of editing for print?
b) You wait for the lens, keep photographing with the lens you have, keep learn the art of photography, keep getting out of the house, so when you get the 100-400, your photography knowledge will be higher, your images will be better, and more worthwhile to be printed?

Have you ever had some money set aside for something and all of the sudden you have an itch that will only stop when you spend that money? :whistle:

Thanks

Here is an old but still relevant and spot on article on why the web can display the color of our images differently, especially page two where you can switch the imbedded color spaces of the images with a click, and see the dramatic difference. Takeaway? Imbed srgb when you export to the web.

http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/color-spaces-page1
 
Setting the lens aside. I print primarily for my own use in sizes from 8x10 to 13x19 ... some I frame for my wall, some go in albums some are used for contests. I have heard good things about the Canon Pixma Pro 1,000 but have not had a personal reason to go that route. I have used a Canon Pixma Pro 100 for a lot of years a real bargain as others have noted but the ink is not cheap. I had a pro printer repairment teach me how set it up and keep things simple. I use only Canon ink and Canon papers. I keep printing simple and use essentialy 3 steps in the LR print module. Most of what I use is the LR/Canon defaults.

Step 1 Under Layout style I keep it simple and use single image /contact sheet. Then in image style I check rotate to fit and zoom to fill if needed. In Layout I have all my margins at 0 page grid and columns at 1, the cell size the set to the size of print I want to make. Guides I check show guides, rulers, page bleed, margin and gutters and image cells. I do nothing under Page.

Then I go to page set up (botom left of my screen) click on the radial and choose the paper size that matches the info on the paper box it came in. Then I go to the printer button on the lower right and open it and leave most things at their default. Then where it says layout I open that and choose Color Matching and check Color Sync (which matches the color I see on my data color spyder x calibrated 2019 27" iMac monitor. Then back up to the box and I go to quality and media and choose the paper type I have loaded in the printer Photo Papers (Pro lustre, Pro Platinum N, Matte Photo Paper N etc,) I use print quality standard and make sure the black and white photo print is not checked if doing color. If you did B&W before this usually will remain checked until you uncheck it. The I click print and watch it print (assuming I loaded the paper in the printer and the ink cartridges are full and I am not getting a low ink warning.

I asked the pro repairman that taught me this what I needed to do for maintenance or cleaning and he said that if I print at least once a month to keep the cartridge heads from drying out probably nothing. And he has been correct for about 5 years now.

The print quality has been as good as any I have seen in contests I have used the prints in.
 
My thoughts would go towards the printer and monitor and calibration.

I've a Epson Stylus Pro 3800 that prints up to 17" wide and which I've had since 2010. I'm not a prolific printer and the printer has at times sat idle for over 6mos. When I decide to print I may have to run a cleaning cycle but have not had major clogs and most time it fires just fine. Maybe it's the humidity in our home here in N Georgia, but I just don't have clogging problems. About this time leading up to Christmas it's used quite a bit as I print many of my images that in turn become gifts to relatives and friends. I enjoy the whole process from printing, matting, and finishing with framing. All the prints (color and BW) displayed in my home except fo two canvas prints have come off that Epson. Biggest problem I have, is space to hang the prints. I've framed prints stacked against the walls in the office just waiting to be rotated in for display. As far as I'm concerned image is not finished until it's a print that I can hold in my hands. Probably a leftover from film days where I spent many hours in the darkroom.

I myself have not had any luck with any online printers. The canvas prints had to be reprinted number of times before I got what I deemed an acceptable print. For an image that was to displayed in a gallerie show, it took over 5 face to face meetings with the printer and twice as many prints before we got a suitable final print. Except for any print larger than 17 wide, I find I can get a better print than any of the online printers that I've tried. In fact looking at relegating the 3800 to BW with a carbon inkset and getting a new printer for color. Just trying to decide if I want to bite the bullet and get a 24" capable printer which will require a reconfiguration of office space.

It's always fun for me to visit with relatives or a friends home and see one of my framed prints prominently displayed in their homes entrance, living or dinning room. Yes ink can get expensive, but so do archival mat boards, frames and glass, but It's a cost I'm more than willing to expend to complete the creative process.
 
Mostly Epson papers with the exception for a metallic pearl from Moab

For most B&W usually Epson Ultrasmooth Fine Art 325 gsm
Epson Signature Series Cold Press Natural
Epson Signature Series Exhibition Fiber
 
As @JohnW said I like to see my images as prints. And I did not get into photography in the film days. I did forget to mention that I do sell a few images now and then almost all are images printed on metal that I get from McKenna Pro. I was recently the featured artist on "The Art Wall" at St. Alphonsus Regional Medical Center here in Boise. The outside traffic to this wall is usually quite high but this September Idaho is packing the hospitals with COVID 19 patients ... we have one of the lowest vaccination rates in the USA and it shows. So the people that saw the images were the hospital staff and a few patients and family members. I sold 10 prints but the highlight were comments I got in person when helping hang and take down the prints, on facebook, via e mail etc. that my prints brightened up a dark time in the hospital.

Here is an e mail I got that made my week and shows how our photography can make a difference.

"Hi Ken,
I hope this email finds you well. My name is Ryan and I'm a Saint Alphonsus employee and had the pleasure of seeing your work along the hallways last month I believe.

I was especially interested in your "Blue Leaf Ice" piece; however, someone else clearly appreciated it as well and purchased it before I was able.

The reason for my interest is mainly because my mom and dad really loved that piece as well. My dad was very sick with daily hospital visits, so he would point that piece out every time we walked by as he knew my mom loved it. My dad sadly passed away a few weeks ago and, as I walk those halls for work, those moments come back to mind.

Is there any way for you to reproduce the piece so that I could purchase this for my mom? I know it would raise her spirits and, if my dad was able to peek down from heaven for a moment, I know it would bring him joy as well.

Let me know if this is possible. Hope to talk soon."

Yes his print is on the way from McKenna Pro and should be here early next week per FedEx.
 
I’m an enthusiast photographer. I enjoy home printing and consider it an extension of the creative process, much as darkroom work in the past. I print something at least every 3-4 weeks, but weekly nozzle checks keep my Epsons clog-free (YMMV). I have my workflow down pretty tight and don’t throw away many prints… and my friends would certainly refer to me, using more descriptive terms, as picky.

With that said, I think you’ll always get more use from the lens.
Wait for the lens.
If nothing else, a calibrator for your monitor will help standardize your images.
Maybe you can answer a question for me. I have a really old screen calibration program (it's not even sold anymore) that I use with the generic calibrating option. However if I calibrate my screen on a sunny afternoon and then want to edit a photo in a evening, it seems something has to be off. (I don't have a designated, controlled editing space.) I don't try to print anything larger than 6x9-ish or 8x10, or card size, but also appreciate being able to print my own photos.
 
Maybe you can answer a question for me. I have a really old screen calibration program (it's not even sold anymore) that I use with the generic calibrating option. However if I calibrate my screen on a sunny afternoon and then want to edit a photo in a evening, it seems something has to be off. (I don't have a designated, controlled editing space.) I don't try to print anything larger than 6x9-ish or 8x10, or card size, but also appreciate being able to print my own photos.
If I read correctly, your calibration program doesn’t use an external hardware item to read the screen? My SpyderX, as well as other sensors, read ambient light during the calibration process. My older model sat on the desk and even monitored ongoing ambient light during computer use.
Yes, ambient changes might affect the calibration and changes in the ambient environment certainly will affect your perception of the screen and your changes to an image during editing. My room level is constant and my desk lamp used to evaluate prints has a daylight bulb, otherwise nothing fancy. Many believe that bulb should be a color temp of the eventual viewing area of the print. A fair point. I’m just too lazy to figure that out, since I’m not selling prints. If I were selling them, or they were for a display where it really mattered, I’d probably swap that bulb out for a time. As it is, I’m satisfied with my present consistency.
Since you don’t have a designated space, how about calibrating and editing during a similar time of day, keeping away from ambient extremes?

btw, welcome to BCG!
 
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Maybe you can answer a question for me. I have a really old screen calibration program (it's not even sold anymore) that I use with the generic calibrating option. However if I calibrate my screen on a sunny afternoon and then want to edit a photo in a evening, it seems something has to be off. (I don't have a designated, controlled editing space.) I don't try to print anything larger than 6x9-ish or 8x10, or card size, but also appreciate being able to print my own photos.

More info is needed to answer your question. What colorimeter are you using and what monitor? It sounds like your brightness setting is the issue. You want the screen darker if your room is dark, 80 to 100 cdn, and you want it brighter if your room is bright 100-120 cdn. You could make 2 profiles and switch between them or split the difference at 100. Also make sure the background of your editor is set to white or light gray. If your prints come back too dark your screen is too bright and vice versa.
 
Thank you so much for all your replies. I find always helpful reading other people views because it can help us seeing things differently.

Today é went shooting the sunrise, and while at the hill, looking downwards to the sea shore, I saw some rock layering that I wanted to get, but I was maxed out at 70mm on my 24-70 and thinking... man... I WANT, I NEED that 100-400! :giggle:

FMS_5295.jpg
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I decided to hold on the printer purchase and stick with my initial plan, by the lens.

I will take your advice though and will invest first on a new monitor and calibrator. Black Friday is near so I will look what offers I can get from BenQ.
Not sure on the 4K screen though. Never understood the concept of buying a 4K screen and then having to change Windows scale to be able to read the text due to its size. By resizing the screen, one literally loses the desktop space that a 4K screen offers when compared with a 1080P resolution. Spend $1000 on a 4K screen to then having it running at 1080 so we can read what is on the screen, seems a bad investment.

Apparently, it seems the 100-400 Z lens release might be closer than I thought since it has been "featured" (?) in Nikon's second Z9 teaser (according to Ricci).
 
Just to add a slightly different aspect to the discussion. I just sold an Epson Stylus Pro 3880 large format printer which I had had for 12 years. I never once had a nozzle clogging issue even though I sometimes went months without printing. I believe my “secret” was to turn off the printer immediately after I had finished printing. I printed mainly landscapes from my travels and hung the pictures in my home. I recently replaced the 3880 with an Epson P700 as realistically I didn’t need the wide format for most of my prints. My point is that “ you could have your cake and eat it too” with a relatively inexpensive printer and limited printing supplies and have a new aspect of photography to explore while you wait for the new lens to be released. Somehow a print seems “real” to me compared to an image on a computer screen. I guess I’m just old!!
 
Thank you so much for all your replies. I find always helpful reading other people views because it can help us seeing things differently.

Today é went shooting the sunrise, and while at the hill, looking downwards to the sea shore, I saw some rock layering that I wanted to get, but I was maxed out at 70mm on my 24-70 and thinking... man... I WANT, I NEED that 100-400! :giggle:

View attachment 26159

I decided to hold on the printer purchase and stick with my initial plan, by the lens.

I will take your advice though and will invest first on a new monitor and calibrator. Black Friday is near so I will look what offers I can get from BenQ.
Not sure on the 4K screen though. Never understood the concept of buying a 4K screen and then having to change Windows scale to be able to read the text due to its size. By resizing the screen, one literally loses the desktop space that a 4K screen offers when compared with a 1080P resolution. Spend $1000 on a 4K screen to then having it running at 1080 so we can read what is on the screen, seems a bad investment.

Apparently, it seems the 100-400 Z lens release might be closer than I thought since it has been "featured" (?) in Nikon's second Z9 teaser (according to Ricci).

400 is surprisingly little reach on a full frame camera. It might not be the end of your lens quest. So many lenses, so little funds....
 
I'd approach this dilemma this way:

1) good monitor
2) calibrate the monitor
3) send the files to a good printing service
4) buy the lens

sometime down the road, think about the printer.
Yes! I have a BenQ 32" 4K monitor (3840 pixels wide). I have the Datacolor SpyderCheckr 24 to calibrate the camera/lens as Lightroom presets. I then use the Spyder X to calibrate the monitor colours/brightness. If you get a printer, you should also calibrate that as well.

I have a 13" M1 MacBook Pro laptop connected to the monitor. The colours/brightness match each other.
 
My point is that “ you could have your cake and eat it too” with a relatively inexpensive printer and limited printing supplies and have a new aspect of photography to explore while you wait for the new lens to be released. Somehow a print seems “real” to me compared to an image on a computer screen. I guess I’m just old!!
As an RN, the majority of my patients were elderly. As a male nurse in my early 60s, one of the first patient questions was, inevitably, “How old are you”? Upon answering, the 80 or 90 year old patient, with a wave of the hand, would reply, ‘You’re just a kid.”
You’re not old, you just appreciate a medium that much (most?) of the world never had contact with to begin with. The internet provides me with a look at the work of many famous, accomplished photographers. Still, I can pull one of many well-produced books from my shelves which contain the same photos… it’s just a different experience. To each their own, but I pity those whose experience with photography has been limited to the screen of a cell phone only.
 
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