LETS TRY TO REMEMBER WHAT THIS FORUM IS ALL ABOUT!

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Neil Laubenthal

Well-known member
Supporting Member
Yep…input from other brand users is always welcome….but the basic reason for this thread comes down to “your Nikon sucks” and “the Z9 barely catches up to what Sony jphas done for years” comments. There are a lot of reasons to choose a brand and to stick with it or switch…but who is ahead is cyclic, most of us can’t really afford to switch over and over, or we could afford it but will it really make us better, and Steve’s 80/4 rule as well. Saying something like your Sony has good bird eye focus isn’t the same as saying basically you’re a loser if you use Nikon and don’t switch to the obviously clearly superior Sony…or Canon.
 

FB101

Well-known member
Yep…input from other brand users is always welcome….but the basic reason for this thread comes down to “your Nikon sucks” and “the Z9 barely catches up to what Sony jphas done for years” comments. There are a lot of reasons to choose a brand and to stick with it or switch…but who is ahead is cyclic, most of us can’t really afford to switch over and over, or we could afford it but will it really make us better, and Steve’s 80/4 rule as well. Saying something like your Sony has good bird eye focus isn’t the same as saying basically you’re a loser if you use Nikon and don’t switch to the obviously clearly superior Sony…or Canon.
Projecting much? Nobody’s ever made those statements here.
 

ramon767

New member
I agree - I wish people would post in the presentation forums more often. I feel like so many members have so many incredible images to show and really, that's the bottom line at the end of the day. Tech talk can turn into a black hole where no photo survives LOL!

I’d love to post some stuff and get critique. I’m a bit nervous to do so because i’ve more or less reached a point of conscious incompetence. I also tend to pursue largely inconsequential gear comparisons, likely because I like it, but because it also allows me some escapism from the reality of what is actually required for improvement.

The area 120mm behind the camera.

I’m probably missing an opportunity, because I have amazing gear, and i know people get more out of it. A better camera probably just means more expensive pictures that im not yet satisfied with.
 

Karl Gillard

Active member
Supporting Member
Hey Steve, I’m a Nikon shooter and have been for 50-years. I’m locked in; I’m not changing to Sony, Minolta, Canon, or any other brand. Personally, I have learned so much from you and other members on this forum. Your online books and videos have taught me more and improved my photography of wildlife by leaps and bounds.

I don’t care what the next guy shoots. Heck, my own daughter loves Canon and she takes fantastic shots. If someone posts something on this forum about a brand I don’t use, I’ll sometimes skim through it to see if there’s something there that will help my technique. If it’s something totally unrelated to me, then I move on. But I also realize that the information in that post is probably helping someone. It doesn’t have to be about ”me” or what I use all the time! However, as we all know, there will always be one of those in the mix.

In closing, I appreciate what you do, and the fact that you do it pretty much for free. I also appreciate the input and expertise of many of the members of the forum. I understand that this juvenile schoolyard bickering sometimes gets under the skin, but I sincerely hope you and other members dont allow it to lead to the closing of this forum.
 

LL4D500

Active member
Hey Steve, I’m a Nikon shooter and have been for 50-years. I’m locked in; I’m not changing to Sony, Minolta, Canon, or any other brand. Personally, I have learned so much from you and other members on this forum. Your online books and videos have taught me more and improved my photography of wildlife by leaps and bounds.

I don’t care what the next guy shoots. Heck, my own daughter loves Canon and she takes fantastic shots. If someone posts something on this forum about a brand I don’t use, I’ll sometimes skim through it to see if there’s something there that will help my technique. If it’s something totally unrelated to me, then I move on. But I also realize that the information in that post is probably helping someone. It doesn’t have to be about ”me” or what I use all the time! However, as we all know, there will always be one of those in the mix.

In closing, I appreciate what you do, and the fact that you do it pretty much for free. I also appreciate the input and expertise of many of the members of the forum. I understand that this juvenile schoolyard bickering sometimes gets under the skin, but I sincerely hope you and other members dont allow it to lead to the closing of this forum.
Couldn’t have said it any better! 👍😇🇺🇸
 

Ausi

New member
Great post and like that people want to keep this site as 'gear religion' free and respectful as possible. It is natural to get excited about new products and the results we are able to achieve.
As I'm a newbie and still learning, I visit this site to learn and be inspired by photos and how they were captured. I'm not interested in gear comparison, so I ignore those discussions/comments.
Maybe we need to check our own responses to what we may perceive as gear religion / passion and let it go. I've worked in IT for too many years and have lived with the same there as well 🙂
 

Nature Man

Active member
Supporting Member
Great post.

There has been a bit of a ramp up of "mine is better than yours" in the comments and I agree it needs to calm down. Every camera has its good and bad points and anyone who thinks some technological bit of trickery they purchased somehow makes them a "better" photographer than someone with a different camera really has a lot to learn about photography!

I can't tell you the number of people I've seen over the years with the "best" possible gear available at time who were, quite frankly, awful. I've also witnessed the opposite just as frequently (I met a guy out west once who only had a Canon Rebel and a kit lens and he was knocking out some absolutely killer wildlife shots - more than a few of which I'd happily put in my portfolio).

Gear helps, but it's always been WAY more about the skillset of the person behind the lens than the equipment. Trying to either lift yourself up or put someone else down based on gear is, to anyone with real experience, asinine. It just makes the person doing it look like rank amateur who really doesn't know what they're doing. Sorry to be blunt.

All that said, I do think that, overall, the tone here is good. Most of the posts are friendly and helpful. When comparing gear, most are dispassionate and only stating experience. The trouble often comes when someone mistakes dispassionate observations for some kind of attack on their brand. I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out product benefits and deficiencies - I do it all the time. However, I think if you're posting that info that you should, again, state the observations without any "bashing" and anyone reading those thoughts should also consider the poster wasn't trying to personally attack them.

It's tricky from a moderation standpoint too. I often get reports calling something an "attack" when it was really just a factual disagreement. BTW - if you do disagree, keeping to the facts only without snide comments helps. Remember, name calling is the refuge of a weak mind :)

Sorry for the long post, but I have been thinking about some of this stuff for awhile now :)
I totally agree, Steve! The folks who bash, name call, etc. really don't add any value to or prove their point. The only thing they prove, IMHO, is their immaturity and some are just trolls looking for a fight. Alas, I'm afraid this is true of many forums. They live among us and there is no accounting for human nature. Personally, I simply ignore them because getting into a pissing contest is definitely a waste of time and does not uplift nor encourage. Let cool heads prevail.
 

Mr. Goodkat

Member
Hi @Venkatesh VT, if I may point out something I learned over the years... I am a multicultural person, born from parents that are of mixed nationalities, I travelled a lot in my life and I spent the most part of my carrier managing multicultural teams spread all over the globe, from Asia to America. One thing I learned the hard way is: different people interpret the same sentence in various ways. Since then I learned to focus more on facts and less on opinions / personal views.

Applying that lesson to this case, such a statement: "Z7 ii not being good for action photography" is very subjective and can easily offend people, even though I am sure that was not your intention. One can say the same thing in more objective way: "the auto Eye AF of the Z7ii is not as sticky or responsive as that of Sony and Canon." That is a fact, that still brings your point across. But saying it is not good for action is way too general and not really true for everyone. I use the Z50 for example, which has a similar if not inferior AF to that of the Z7ii and it works just fine for my action photography. That may not be the case for you, maybe because you do more BIF and I do not.. but you see what I am trying to say?
I'll add to this by saying the other problem with forums and common replies on social media is that other important aspects, or necessities for good communication, are inherently lost. Facial expression, tone of voice and body language are vital to good communication but that's missing in the virtual media platforms. It can be easy to mistake what is being said or maybe more importantly, how it's being said. We can all read a statement and take it a certain way perhaps based purely off what our current mood is at that moment.

It's great we the people can instantly join together from all over the globe, especially for similar interests and hobbies, but unfortunately there has been some degradation of man kind as a result. I'm not talking here so much as other platforms such as FB, IG, YT, etc. Just read the comment sections, or ignore them if you don't want to be completely baffled by people and their overall character 🤦‍♂️. People also don't fear consequences for what is said when they are not said face to face.
 

Neil Laubenthal

Well-known member
Supporting Member
Projecting much? Nobody’s ever made those statements here.
Paraphrasing…lots of posts that obviously have that attitude in some threads. It's a lot better here than in other places…UHH for instance…but we still see some brand bashing. I could go and pick out a selection of posts for you to read and see if you agree or not…but it's really not worth the time and effort for each of us. I'm pretty mellow about brands…some folk switch and are happy, some don't and are happy…and as I said there are a lot of reasons to either switch or not. However…the a1 folk as a group seem to be particularly interested in proving how much better their gear is and the attitude of "you're a moron if you don't switch" and "Nikon is doomed" is pretty obvious to an unbiased observer if you read some of the posts. Me…I'm sticking with Nikon for a bunch of reasons…not the least of which is my gear is still not limiting me, it's me and my skills that are limiting me…and dropping the cash to switch wouldn't materially increase my satisfaction with my photos or make me better. For every a1 shooter who brags about how their gear and only their gear with it's incredible eye focus gets so many more keepers…there's a Hudson Henry who shoots Zs and has no issues with getting the shot. It's all relative…and any body/lens from any vendor starting with the base entry model can and will produce good images.

Yes…20 FPS might get a few more keepers than 10 FPS…and one might get a slightly better wing position or beak open or whatever in the shot…but the 10 FPS guy still gets shots that are as good…and unless you're a professional whose livelihood depends on the absolute best shot then remember the old adage that better is the enemy of good enough.

Even Steve has pointed out the obvious ramp up of "mine is better"…so perhaps you're not reading the right threads or your tolerance for chest beating and one upmanship is a lot greater than some. I come here to get tips and see nice pictures…not to argue about minutia about whose gear is better.

As I've stated before…economically I could easily switch to whatever I wanted to…but the cost/benefit ratio just isn't there…for me. YMMV.
 

vandy

Member
It really does not matter to me which system is the better one, I am heavily invested in Nikon so that is where I will stay because I am just too old and can't afford to invest in a totally new system. I am very happy with my D850 and my D6 as well so I naturally ordered a Z9 on the first day they opened the ordering process. I don't have my Z9 yet but I am certainly excited about getting it soon, I hope. I never have understood why people seem to bicker over stuff like this in the first place, just enjoy what you have and learn to use it to the best of your ability. Comparisons are inevitable but I think if you go with Nikon or Canon or Sony or what ever brand you want to go with there is really no wrong choice because they are all really good systems that should yield great results.
 

ronpier

Member
I think the individuals that are directly involved in this Sony vs Nikon thing should take a deep breath. Mirrorless or DSLR as well. It’s getting a little ridiculous as Steve pointed out. This forum is about helping and motivating photographers to take better pictures. Most of us choose a camera based on what fits our needs and not based solely on which is better. There are always compromises. Because which is better is a personal opinion based on your needs. So, while this back and forth can be entertaining at times it’s getting a little old. When I see a thread about the Z9 photos , that’s what I want to read about. If I see a thread about the Sony A1, that’s what I expect. Not some back and forth about which is better. Come on people, your better than that. Let’s talk about thing's that improve our skills or helps to solve a problem that one of us is having. It’s not necessary to defend your position that your camera is better than theirs. There are plenty of you-tube videos for that.
Good points Ralph. Thanks.
 

ccirelli

Active member
I don't know, I think this is a pretty civil and balanced forum. Maybe I'm not on enough(?) but there's a really good vibe here. I'm guessing many folks here don't engage in dog training groups / discussions... now that's a brutal bunch :LOL: (truth)

It's fun talking gear & tech - ya it's only one aspect of photography but there are definitely benefits to knowing what's out there, and if/how it'll benefit your work & goals. Or even just geeking out on the engineering aspect of it all - we live in an amazing time and we're so lucky to have all these tools & choices.

The absolute best and most beneficial groups I participate in all have the "ELE" rule: Everybody Loves Everybody. If someone's not cool or overly emotional, warning / booted. I rarely see drama here. And/or I'm just really good at avoiding it. :)
 

Jack S.

New member
I don't do drama, too old for that. The way I see it, taking photos is the one common interest. Who cares what anyone else thinks of their gear, they chose it, they bought it, so did I with my gear. I'm happy with it, just like that other person.
Just get out there and use the best camera and lens combination there is, the one you are carrying at the time.
Life is too short as it is, so why argue.
 

Hut2

🇺🇸
Supporting Member
I don't know, I think this is a pretty civil and balanced forum. Maybe I'm not on enough(?) but there's a really good vibe here. I'm guessing many folks here don't engage in dog training groups / discussions... now that's a brutal bunch :LOL: (truth)
or motocross forums, where the 2 stroke taliban lives
 
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O

Well-known member
The world has not run out of fools yet and there are always going to be people who are off point, the idea is don't lower your self by dignifying them with your time or an answer.

Invest in your self not just the gear...........
 
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wassa1957

New member
I think the individuals that are directly involved in this Sony vs Nikon thing should take a deep breath. Mirrorless or DSLR as well. It’s getting a little ridiculous as Steve pointed out. This forum is about helping and motivating photographers to take better pictures. Most of us choose a camera based on what fits our needs and not based solely on which is better. There are always compromises. Because which is better is a personal opinion based on your needs. So, while this back and forth can be entertaining at times it’s getting a little old. When I see a thread about the Z9 photos , that’s what I want to read about. If I see a thread about the Sony A1, that’s what I expect. Not some back and forth about which is better. Come on people, your better than that. Let’s talk about thing's that improve our skills or helps to solve a problem that one of us is having. It’s not necessary to defend your position that your camera is better than theirs. There are plenty of you-tube videos for that.
Agreed.
 

O

Well-known member
or motocross forums, where the 2 stroke taliban lives 🙋‍♂️.....lol

WOW 2 stokes for ever please

...........i like 4 strokes for enduro's - long cross country events, but for outright competition in motor cross i love the explosive power of a two stroke..........
I used to race 500 cc 2 stroke Kawasaki as well as in the 125 class.

My favorite machine today is the 300cc Husqvarna 2 stoke Enduro............my son and nephews race them in 4 and 6 day events and just love them.

Paris to Dakar........... defiantly 4 stoke for fuel efficiency and conserving energy and durability.

You just struck a cord mate................ LOL
 
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O

Well-known member
WHATS IT ABOUT

NO 1 ................PHOTOGRAPHY


To get help if i have an issue.

Share through the odd experience i have had if it can be of help to others.

To cherry pick and use what suits or works for me.

To keep learning as much as i can regardless of how much i may already know.

Speak freely respectfully, above all say it as it is.

I am not fussed in brands being better than others.......

The Forum is a good forum and should be for everyone, beginners or experts.


I ignore the odd fool or ones obsessed with political correctness.

I have the hide of a Rhino so go waste yourself LOL


What i would like to see is more photos.

The welcoming of those people who have older DSLRS and lenses.


Some attention on composition, lighting, technique, focusing................ photography with any camera or lens, not just the A1 Z9 R3

Developing skill sets.........

Maybe i am off with the fairy's LOL

Surfs Up, water is warm, my girlfreind and I are going to duck out of a quick splash before dinner.
 
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Don Linn

Member
I used to run a photographic community for 12 years. I always resisted calls for separate forums for (say) Pentax, Canon etc as this inevitably leads to owners only looking at 'their' forum and thus missing stuff that is universal and not tied to a brand. In this example having everything in the one forum does allow people to see stuff thst might not be posted in 'their' forum - shooting tips or bargains found - and allows people to have some knowledge of other brands and so may inform them in their future choices.

So if you had forums for dSLRs and mirrorless, would it then not be logical to further subdivide lenses, tripods, gimbals. heads, memory cards? What about editing software? You can see the issue. The forum would be unmanageable.

Categories can have some benefits but need a good search facility, and if you have that, the need for categories diminishes.
I agree. The forum should stay intact but with those who abuse the format of the forum be given a gentle reminder this is no place for bickerinmg. Let's keep it friendly and a good place to discuss photography, not which camera system is better.
 

dwillar

Member
The world has not run out of fools yet and there are always going to be people who are off point, the idea is don't lower your self by dignifying them with your time or an answer.

Invest in your self not just the gear...........
Aptly put! :giggle:
 
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