Lightroom Classic Catalog only or original RAW files also stored?

[VStammer]

Still trying to understand and navigate Lightroom Classic. I have purchased and watched Steve's tutorials. I am now making the adjustment to have multiple copies saved on different drives for safekeeping. I have now migrated over to a small (6TB) duplex RAID drive which I have decided to set up as RAID 1. This is the primary drive I will be working out of when I am editing. I work off of a small laptop with insufficient internal hard drive space. Now I also wish to keep an offsite copy on a portable drive. Should I just copy the Lightroom catalog or should I copy my RAW files straight from the camera?
My concern is being "trapped" or dependent on Lightroom software to always be able to access my original RAW photo files. Any guidance appreciated.

 

[Replytoken]

Still trying to understand and navigate Lightroom Classic. I have purchased and watched Steve's tutorials. I am now making the adjustment to have multiple copies saved on different drives for safekeeping. I have now migrated over to a small (6TB) duplex RAID drive which I have decided to set up as RAID 1. This is the primary drive I will be working out of when I am editing. I work off of a small laptop with insufficient internal hard drive space. Now I also wish to keep an offsite copy on a portable drive. Should I just copy the Lightroom catalog or should I copy my RAW files straight from the camera?
My concern is being "trapped" or dependent on Lightroom software to always be able to access my original RAW photo files. Any guidance appreciated.

You will not be "trapped" by LR to access your raw files, but you will be "trapped" by LR to access any of the work that you have done to your images as these are stored in the LR catalog. Yes, they can be exported into a sidecar XMP file or into a DNG file, but these instructions can only be read by a few programs, so it is not like your edits are portable to another program.

If you want to use additional programs to edit your work in addition to LR, you are really going to need to pay attention to your workflow. Once you take an image outside of LR, for the most part you will be getting back a derivative file (usually a TIFF) to continue working on. "Roundtripping" can be done, but it does complicate your file management as you are no longer just reading and using the raw file for post processing.

Before you dive deep into LR Classic, I would suggest running some trial catalogs with a small amount of copies of images to refine your workflow. It is much easier to make corrections early in your setup. If you have not yet looked at Lightroom Queen, I suggest that you stop by and take a peak at Victoria's free ebooks, tips, tutorials, blog and forum. Like here, it is a friendly and helpful bunch at the forum - https://www.lightroomqueen.com/ .

Good luck,

--Ken

 

[MartyD]

There are others on this forum that have a much better understanding and higher skill level on Lightroom Classic than I, but here is the way I think of it.

The LR Classic catalog is just a database of the location of the original file, the location of the previews that LR built, and the edits related to each photo. I look at backing up my LR catalog and my images as two different processes. My images are organized in folders and those folders are backed up to local drives and to a cloud based service. It is also important to backup your LR catalog because there is always the potential for catalog corruption. You can set LR Classic to build a backup of your catalog on a regular basis and you need to have a plan to keep several versions of your catalog.

LR Classic does not change your original photos, but some LR actions might produce additional images files. I will at times move image files from fast storage to slower storage when I no longer need regular access to the images. If I try to edit the image and it is not where LR originally cataloged it. I can relink the LR image to the new location.

 

[VStammer]

Yes, I am still confused by the terminology of "lighhtroom catalog" which to me would seem to indicate that it is a catalog of my images. However, as it has been clarified to me the lightroom catalog is not or does not contain my images. I guess where I am having issues is figuring out where my "base" RAW image is located when I import it using Lightroom Classic program. I seem to have a quagmire of files from multiple drives that I can't make much sense of. Very frustrating to say the least. What's worse is most of the aggravation has been self imposed! Just hoping to get the latest and most complete version of both my RAW photo files and the Lightroom catalog and then delete all remaining copies or versions on all of my drives.

 

[DRwyoming]

I guess where I am having issues is figuring out where my "base" RAW image is located when I import it using Lightroom Classic program.

The Lightroom catalog is very much like the old school card catalog at a library. It tells LR where your photos are stored but the photos are not 'in' the catalog any more than library books are 'in' the card catalog drawers. Yeah, I'm dating myself with the card catalog analogy but perhaps you understand what I'm saying.

When you Import photos into Lightroom it doesn't actually transfer the file into any kind of special LR storage. The photos are still stored in their original form in folders on a hard drive (or cloud storage if you go that route). The importing phase only adds info on where your photos are stored to your LR catalog but does not prohibit other programs from opening or editing those photo files stored on your drive(s).

Where the original photo is stored after importing is determined in the Import dialog page in LR and is shown in the upper right hand corner of the screen. You can chose to store your images in any convenient place during import but that's just a location on a drive and not really any special place inside of Lightroom at all. If you open up the import module and look in the upper right hand corner of the screen it will show you where your photos are being stored during the import process but you can choose other locations for importing new photos.

You can also move images to new folders using the Folders tab on the left hand side of the Library module. If you drag and drop files to new folders but do it within LR then the catalog will be properly updated and LR will still know where to find your images. It's best to do any folder reorganization within Lightroom and not do any file moving via Windows or the Mac OS or LR will have trouble finding those images moved using external tools. In other words if you want to set up a new organization system for your images and are a Lightroom user it's best to do all that drag and drop reorganization and any duplicate image deleting using the LR tools so the catalog stays updated to any changes.

Bottom line, all of your photos are stored on physical or logical drives (e.g. cloud storage) and those image files are directly accessible through normal file tools in: Windows, Mac or other operating systems. Exactly where your images are stored depends on how you've got Lightroom importing set up but the files aren't sucked into any kind of Lightroom special storage, they're still sitting right on your drives but Lightroom is aware of them and their location after 'importing'.

And if some day comes when you decide LR isn't for you and stop using it your images will still be there on your hard drive(s) where you left them. You'll lose the history of all edits you made within LR but the original images will still be where you stored them and available for editing or printing using other tools.

Hope that makes sense...

 

[Replytoken]

Just to elaborate on the above, when you import an image into LR, the import dialog box give you the option of Copy, Move or Add (and Copy as DNG, but let's leave this alone for now). This is important to pay attention to as the program will do exactly what title says with the selected files. So, do you want to copy, move or add them? If you answer this question, you will know where your files are in the future.

--Ken

 

[Squawk]

The catalogue is, as has been mentioned, just a database. The problem is that a database is very fussy about how you behave and won’t tolerate any rule breaking. If you use LR as a DAM then you have to be dedicated to its rules. Any misadventure can be painful and time consuming. When I started with LR I got Lightroom Queen’s book and worked on the DAM section for over a month before I was totally clear how it was going to work for me. I didn’t use her system as I don’t think that way but her underlying reasoning enabled me to get my head in order. Anyway, what I am saying is spend lots of time on figuring out what you really do want (everyone is different), what will be the results if you change your mind and then total discipline to that regime. When I walked away from LR my new program imported my file structure and while setting up the new DAM was a mission, by doing a ton of figuring out right at the beginning it was efficient. I really did spend about 6 weeks thinking, rethinking and overthinking before I imported my first photo for real and didn’t regret the time spent once.

 

[gbodave]

The confusion begins with the terminology but first just go with the fact that you store your photos on your system in folders. LrC never touches those photos i.e. it never changes them. When you edit a photo LrC creates a tiny text file that is associated with the photo being edited and records the editing steps in that text file e.g. exposure +3, contrast -4, shadows +6 and so on. LrC also creates a record of where the photos are on your hard drive.

All that amounts to a cataloguing procedure, the simplest example being as DJ Wyoming explained. In the library analogy the index card knows where the book on "Best backcountrygallery bird photos" is stored. If someone takes the book out for a week the index card will know it's not in it's place on the shelf - it's with me for example. Same with Lrc. All my goldfinch photos are stored in the goldfinch folder. If I move some or all within Lrc to a "songbirds" folder LrC will know what their new location is. Those text files I mentioned will also move to stay associated with each photo.

If LrC never touches the photos it follows that those photos are never truly imported into LrC. What's happening is LrC is showing you what amounts to a photocopy ( LrC calls them previews) just so you have something to see when editing. If you mess up the edits that won't affect the original photo which remember is never touched. Either adjust or start over.

Backup your photos to wherever you want them.

Completely seperately, backup the catalogue and It's best practice to store the catalogue on the fastest drive. You can set up a prompt so that every time you exit LrC you can backup the catalogue. There are several options and I choose to backup the catalogue "every time Lightroom exits". It's also wise to use the options for "test integrity (of the catalogue) before backing up" and "optimise catalogue after backing up".

If you fail to renew a LrC subscription you don't lose LrC but you can't use the Develop module but you would still have access to the Quick develop module which would only allow "rough" edits. You don't lose your images and you don't lose the edits made to those images. You can still import new images and organise them.

 

[SandyW]

LR catalog = LR database
Import = tell LR where the photo is located. During this step you also have the option to "copy/move" the photo to a new location or if it is already where you want it just "add" it to the database/catalog.

I've never found it hard to rearrange the location of my photos, but I'm a bit OCD about storage on my computer. Just do it from within LR (drag/drop). There is always the locate option if you forget.

There are a lot of tutorials, books, or videos out there that will help you get organized. Ken mentioned LR Queen as a good one.

 

[Replytoken]

The confusion begins with the terminology but first just go with the fact that you store your photos on your system in folders. LrC never touches those photos i.e. it never changes them. When you edit a photo LrC creates a tiny text file that is associated with the photo being edited and records the editing steps in that text file e.g. exposure +3, contrast -4, shadows +6 and so on. LrC also creates a record of where the photos are on your hard drive.

Just to clarify. LRC maintains all edits inside of the catalog files. You do have the option to also write out the edits to an XMP sidecar file, but this is not required.

--Ken

 

[SandyW]

I always update my xmp files after an editing session. (Automatic xmp updates can slow the system.) Those xmp files also get backed up with my photos and LR catalogs to a NAS, but that is another topic. Can't have too many backups!

 

[bleirer]

One cool feature is that one Lightroom catalog can point to as many folders on your computer as you wish. You can use any method to move the raw files off your camera into whatever folders you desire. When I get images off the camera it is super simple, pictures 2019 in one folder, picures 2020 in another, soon to switch to pictures 2021. But I only use one Lightroom catalog for all pictures all years. Within Lightroom you can use virtual collections, keywords, ratings, metadata an more to keep organized.

You don't lose any capability by using Lightroom. It is a raw converter which is a necessary step before you can edit or use the raw. Luckily lightroom does this non-destructively so you can change edits anytime. All raw converters must result in the export of a non raw file at some point if you want to use it for anything, but saving a tiff or psd will be a lossless way to do it.

 

[VStammer]

Thank you everyone for your your input and valuable insight. I am a bit behind when it comes to Lightroom, as it was just never something I cared to invest much time in learning when I was just an occasional shooter. Then one day I realized I was beginning to amass quite a few photos and not only did I want to edit some of them I also wanted to organize them....
Anyways, thanks for the insight and help!

 

[Replytoken]

Thank you everyone for your your input and valuable insight. I am a bit behind when it comes to Lightroom, as it was just never something I cared to invest much time in learning when I was just an occasional shooter. Then one day I realized I was beginning to amass quite a few photos and not only did I want to edit some of them I also wanted to organize them....
Anyways, thanks for the insight and help!

The learning curve for LR is unfortunately a lot higher than many programs. But, if you decide to stick with it, it will pay off. Julianne Kost has many great, and free, tutorials on LR. I would encourage you to view some of them if you want to push ahead with LRC.

--Ken

 

[Viathelens]

Still trying to understand and navigate Lightroom Classic. I have purchased and watched Steve's tutorials. I am now making the adjustment to have multiple copies saved on different drives for safekeeping. I have now migrated over to a small (6TB) duplex RAID drive which I have decided to set up as RAID 1. This is the primary drive I will be working out of when I am editing. I work off of a small laptop with insufficient internal hard drive space. Now I also wish to keep an offsite copy on a portable drive. Should I just copy the Lightroom catalog or should I copy my RAW files straight from the camera?
My concern is being "trapped" or dependent on Lightroom software to always be able to access my original RAW photo files. Any guidance appreciated.

So, two subjects here: LrC and backups...you can, as others have said, never have enough backups! Backing up your images AND your LrC catalog is very important. When you import (think link) into LrC you can choose, right as you import, to send a backup image file to another disk. I always do this.

On LrC...one good approach to learning the Library Module, which is the organizational heart of LrC, is reading about it on the Adobe website, the Lightroom Help Manual (be sure you choose the correct manual). This will give you the basics of using that module in LrC and will help you to understand how the software works. Understanding how the software works now, before you start importing images, will prevent you from making mistakes later on. This is also the module you will be in when you use the built-in data base to find images. LrC, though. is more than a database, it is software for editing, making books, creating slideshows, web pages, and printing your work. As to your concern about being "trapped" by using the software...yes, you will be dependent upon using the software as you work with your images as the processing edits are only saved to the LrC database (unless you instruct the software in Preferences to save the edits to the image itself or to the sidecar file and then it could be read by another software editor) and so you must be in the software to see the edits you have applied until you export the image in some fashion. I've used the software for about 8 years now and have never found this to be an issue. You do have the option to export all edited files, doing so in Tiff would be the best, if you so desire and then you have all the finished files on your hard drive (which I have done in the past). I think you will find the convenience of the program to outweigh any perceived inconvenience. It does sound like you need to review all your files to determine where they are now and to put them all into a more orderly fashion. Pulling all folders into one main folder on your external drive might work for you: this is the approach I use. Arrange them as you want them on your external drive and only then begin to link them to LrC. Having a well-defined organization of your images is key to working quickly and easily in any software.

 

[dabhand16]

Yes, I am still confused by the terminology of "lighhtroom catalog" which to me would seem to indicate that it is a catalog of my images. However, as it has been clarified to me the lightroom catalog is not or does not contain my images. I guess where I am having issues is figuring out where my "base" RAW image is located when I import it using Lightroom Classic program.

Lightroom has a defaut saving location (can't remember where offhand Go to edit>preferences>performance>go to catalogue settings and the location is shown as is the backup options. Set this to every time LR closes. Voice of experience) but you can tell it where you want your images to go. This is done during import where you choose what to import and where to import to. Everything can be done in LR, but you might find it easier to first create a new folder in your preferred location then when you import images all you have to do is to navigate to that folder in the RHS of the LR import screen.

I'd recommend looking at some basic how-tos on LR before you carry on otherwise your files will be in a mess. This happened to someone I know who let LR do its own thing for a long time and it made his files impossible to find as LR just stored them in date order on the C drive and the only way to find out what was in the folders was to open them. Do not let LR do its own thing. Learn how to control it or you will end up having to ditch everything and start from scratch.

Steve has an excellent course on LR but there are plenty of on line resources also.

 

[SandyW]

In windows Right click > show in explorer (or <ctrl><R click>) on an image will open an explorer windows folder containing the image. The Mac should have sometime similar (<command>?) It is not that hard to reorganize photos in LR, but it can be time consuming and possibly frustrating if you are not used to dealing with folder structure. It definitely makes sense to decide where you want to store your photos before importing them into LR! In windows I believe LR defaults to the default "pictures" location. I second Graham's suggestion to find a basic LR tutorial.

 

[gbodave]

Refer back to my first reply - #8.

With LrC you store your images on the local hard drive of your choice. As a new LrC user you do this before you set up and use LrC. Could be the internal C drive or an external. Whichever is the case. When you install LrC you link to the master folder in the structure you have created (the source). Because all you've done is tell LrC where the source folder and all dependant folders are positioned, the images remain where you put them. Those images never leave that drive and are never re-positioned on that drive (unless you decide to move them which is best done inside LrC). So, once you have all the original images where you want them nothing will happen to them just by using the various functions in LrC.

LrC has no save function for images. If you want to have an alternative version of an image file you export it to a location and folder of your choice and in a format of your choice so again you know exactly where they are. For practical purposes it's simple to export them to the same drive and folder that the original is situated so you will have the original (say RAW) and the exported image (say JPG) sitting side by side in the film strip.

As far as backing up is concerned, you backup the catalogue and various administrative folders in LrC as one operation with as many copies as you like. Completely seperately you backup the images in their folder structure with as many copies as you like.

 

[Viathelens]

Refer back to my first reply - #8.

With LrC you store your images on the local hard drive of your choice. As a new LrC user you do this before you set up and use LrC. Could be the internal C drive or an external. Whichever is the case. When you install LrC you link to the master folder in the structure you have created (the source). Because all you've done is tell LrC where the source folder and all dependant folders are positioned, the images remain where you put them. Those images never leave that drive and are never re-positioned on that drive (unless you decide to move them which is best done inside LrC). So, once you have all the original images where you want them nothing will happen to them just by using the various functions in LrC.

LrC has no save function for images. If you want to have an alternative version of an image file you export it to a location and folder of your choice and in a format of your choice so again you know exactly where they are. For practical purposes it's simple to export them to the same drive and folder that the original is situated so you will have the original (say RAW) and the exported image (say JPG) sitting side by side in the film strip.

As far as backing up is concerned, you backup the catalogue and various administrative folders in LrC as one operation with as many copies as you like. Completely seperately you backup the images in their folder structure with as many copies as you like.

FYI...there actually is a Save function in LrC. It saves the metadata to the file or to a sidecar file if RAW. Saving to a file allows the file to be used in a different photo processor. Command or Control S, the standard save keys. This can also be set in Preferences. Also, an alternative version of an image can be made by creating a Virtual Copy. This copy, like all LrC files, can be exported when a printed or electronic version is required.

 

[bleirer]

FYI...there actually is a Save function in LrC. It saves the metadata to the file or to a sidecar file if RAW. Saving to a file allows the file to be used in a different photo processor. Command or Control S, the standard save keys. This can also be set in Preferences. Also, an alternative version of an image can be made by creating a Virtual Copy. This copy, like all LrC files, can be exported when a printed or electronic version is required.

As you said, I set preferences to automatically write the metadata to the sidecar. In case of disaster with the catalog and the backup you can restore your edits in a new catalog. They say it slows things down but I haven't noticed. This link should cover it https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-c... catalog,Automatically Write Changes Into XMP.

 

[Replytoken]

FYI...there actually is a Save function in LrC. It saves the metadata to the file or to a sidecar file if RAW. Saving to a file allows the file to be used in a different photo processor. Command or Control S, the standard save keys. This can also be set in Preferences. Also, an alternative version of an image can be made by creating a Virtual Copy. This copy, like all LrC files, can be exported when a printed or electronic version is required.

Just note that few programs can read and correctly implement LR instructions; they were not designed to be universal, just portable (mostly for use by other Adobe programs).

--Ken

 

[Replytoken]

As you said, I set preferences to automatically write the metadata to the sidecar. In case of disaster with the catalog and the backup you can restore your edits in a new catalog. They say it slows things down but I haven't noticed. This link should cover it https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/metadata-basics-actions.html#:~:text=Choose Edit > Catalog Settings (Windows,do either of the following:&text=To write adjustments and settings metadata only to the catalog,Automatically Write Changes Into XMP.

This is true, but my preference is to have backups of my catalog and image files in the event of a disaster. It would be a cleaner restoration as the backup catalog only needs the image files to be up and running. It also makes backups easier as the files never change, just the catalog.

--Ken

 

[bleirer]

This is true, but my preference is to have backups of my catalog and image files in the event of a disaster. It would be a cleaner restoration as the backup catalog only needs the image files to be up and running. It also makes backups easier as the files never change, just the catalog.

--Ken

I was not suggesting anyone stop backing up their lightroom catalog, I hope I didn't give that impression. The catalog still has all the edits even if one also saves them to the sidecar. But in case of disaster this would be another way to recover. Some people take the middle ground and just save the sidecar once a month or whatever schedule.

 

[Replytoken]

I was not suggesting anyone stop backing up their lightroom catalog, I hope I didn't give that impression. The catalog still has all the edits even if one also saves them to the sidecar. But in case of disaster this would be another way to recover. Some people take the middle ground and just save the sidecar once a month or whatever schedule.

No worries, I did not interpret your comment as suggesting that the catalog not be backed up (and I assumed nobody else would). I guess I would describe having the sidecar files as a "belt and suspenders" approach to recovering from a disaster.

--Ken

 

[TCzPhotos]

I maintain a LR cloud database, a hardrive folder that contains the edited files from LR, a Google Photos database that contains the best shared photos and a hardrive file that contains the raw images sent to LR. Hardrive folders are duplicated on a freestanding SSD.