Lightroom Classic Update - introduces Denoise-AI powered noise reduction.

[fotogrob]

I just tried it. It works great, The best so far. It also take the longest to process. You need a powerful computer with a fast GPU.

I agree and am disappointed. With an Intel i3 and 32gigs of RAM, Topaz was done in 15-30 seconds. Even masking was quick. I don't have a discrete GPU card. Never needed it but if I want to use LR DeNoise, I will reconsider or continue to use Topaz. Bummer!

 

[Nimi]

@PKW creates some interesting choices. Seems like when the M1 was out there were more GPU choices. Interesting in that this morning my processing times are 25 seconds. I can't figure out why it's gone down, so making a decision on the GPU is tougher. Seems like you would want the Studio version over the Mini which seems to cap at 16 GPU cores. Maybe consider getting a 16" MBP (benefit is to use as one of your screens and can be moved if needed) where you have other options in the range of the Studio.

Is any of the work done "in the cloud?" And if so, would connection and traffic account for some of the variability?

 

[SandyW]

Is any of the work done "in the cloud?" And if so, would connection and traffic account for some of the variability?

A quick test with my internet blocked showed no difference in processing speed. It is still fast on my computer which makes sense as my internet speeds are abysmal.

 

[BarkingBeans Coffee]

Is any of the work done "in the cloud?" And if so, would connection and traffic account for some of the variability?

No I don't use the cloud. All local on my 2021 MBP M1, 24core GPU, 32mb ram. I suppose it's possible I had other programs running the first time. I did make sure I chose FX images and not DX.

 

[JerryF]

As others are seeing its un-usable on either of my PC based systems that I have tried. In the first case it only has an Nvidia GT1030 w/2GB of memory. It estimates 5 minutes to complete but then disables the graphics processor due to an error even though it is on this weeks latest Nvidia drivers and of course Topaz works flawlessly. I tried disabling the graphics coprocessor but it used it anyway so there is no way to use your main processor no matter how fast or how many cores you have. I then tried it on my wife's recent gen carbon X1 laptop which just has the Intel IRIS built in graphics processor and it estimated and took 25 minutes. It seems to work fine on Apple systems from what I see on the reviews. Maybe they will have a fix but Lightroom has always not needed a high power graphics processor before this release.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

I feel the same way! I liked the results from PureRAW 3 but it has not worked consistently on my PC. I can process a few images then it will hang while processing and the remaining time will just continue to climb, I have to restart LrC in order to get it to process again. I have contacted DXO but I have not been able to resolve the problem. It has just not become part of my regular workflow yet.

DxO PR3 Taking forever to process: I found that I could let it go for 20 minutes (I think it was) and the progress bar had risen to "35 minutes remaining".

I discovered the option to turn off the GPU and run from the CPU. It was still around 10 minutes, but at least it finished. The GPU (RTX 2070 super) is old, but no slouch. The CPU (AMD Ryzen 9 5900x) is actually still fairly modern, way too much for 10 minutes.

The new LRC AI-powered DeNoise took only about a minute (claimed 45 seconds, took slightly longer).

I have yet to compare the results to Topaz (will do this today).

Chris

PS: these times are for a 102MP Fuji RAF raw file.

 

[Mark Ulmer]

I've tested it quite a bit this week and I've found the new Adobe denoise to be at least equal to and, in many cases, slightly better than both Topaz Denoise AI and DxO PureRaw3. Adobe did a great job on this one!

 

[Len Cohen]

Have I just thrown away US$129 by purchasing DxO PureRAW 3 earlier this week?

Background: I use LrC and shoot with Canon R5 (CR3) and Leica Q2 (DNG).

I have not yet updated the LR denoise. I have used Topaz for years and think it is absolutely amazing. Purely a question of interest: why did you choose Pure Raw (BTW I have never used it and I have no affilliation ) with Topaz

 

[Joe Donahue]

I tried it today and liked it better than Topaz. Last week the Greater Sage Grouse finally showed up at the lek in Utah and I had pre sunrise overcast shots at ISO 25600. I will have to retry Topaz on a Raw shot and then process in LR as suggested above as I haven't tried that.

 

[alecdann]

Greg Benz did an indepth review of the new LRC Denoise which you can find here. He compares it to the legacy noise reduction tools in LRC and the Denoise tool in DXO PureRaw. Interesting that the each AI-based denoise tool performs better in different parts of the tonal range.

 

[Irap]

I hardly ever used the denoise, I've tried them all and wound up getting the Topaz suite, I thought it was the best of the bunch until I tried the new LR denoise. It is amazing, but on my old Mac Pro, that was loaded, It was painfully slow. I've been waiting for the right time to upgrade. I just ordered a new Mac Mini M2 10/16 with 32gigs. I'll let you know how it works out.

 

[PKW]

Maybe for once I got my financial timing right

I was getting to the stage where I was having to seriously consider paying for something like Topaz for noise reduction.

What I can say is in the Group I meet every 2 weeks to discuss mainly computer issues my Mac LRC denoise performs much faster with 45 MP files than Topaz does with files from lower MP cameras using PC's - clarifying nothing unless the PC and Mac have similar specifications.

I expect in about a months time the Group will compare Topaz denoise with Lightroom denoise.

LRC denoise may be only a little beyond beta development - with improvements promised over the coming months.
Topaz may also up their denoise performance.

The spec of the Mac desktop that I use is 12 core CPU, 38 Core GPU and 16 Core Neural Engine that to some extent work together.
I expect a lesser LRC denoise performance from my 4 year old 27 inch iMac when it returns from repair next week.

@PKW creates some interesting choices. Seems like when the M1 was out there were more GPU choices. Interesting in that this morning my processing times are 25 seconds. I can't figure out why it's gone down, so making a decision on the GPU is tougher. Seems like you would want the Studio version over the Mini which seems to cap at 16 GPU cores. Maybe consider getting a 16" MBP (benefit is to use as one of your screens and can be moved if needed) where you have other options in the range of the Studio.

Yeah, I can drive myself crazy trying doing micro comparisons between Macs and PCs, and between M1 and M2 Macs and their CPU/GPU/RAM configurations. From what you two have told me, a nicely spec'd Mac will perform LR denoise fast enough for my use. Leaning toward the Mac Studio (Max, not the Ultra) for more GPU's, not to mention more memory available than the Mac Mini M2 Pro. Now need to figure out what monitor will replace my old Dell monitor...thanks guys!

 

[Butlerkid]

As others are seeing its un-usable on either of my PC based systems that I have tried. In the first case it only has an Nvidia GT1030 w/2GB of memory. It estimates 5 minutes to complete but then disables the graphics processor due to an error even though it is on this weeks latest Nvidia drivers and of course Topaz works flawlessly. I tried disabling the graphics coprocessor but it used it anyway so there is no way to use your main processor no matter how fast or how many cores you have. I then tried it on my wife's recent gen carbon X1 laptop which just has the Intel IRIS built in graphics processor and it estimated and took 25 minutes. It seems to work fine on Apple systems from what I see on the reviews. Maybe they will have a fix but Lightroom has always not needed a high power graphics processor before this release.

I used it yesterday on my desktop PC. Worked just as expected. Took about 25 seconds to process.

New C: drive 1/16/09 CD Creator = CEX6-MYA3-5E86-T7Z7V phillips DVD +- RW Driver 5.1.2535.0 TSST DVD - ROM = TS-H353B Driver 5.1.2535.0 i7 = 2600 Sandy Bridge 3.4 GHz, LGA 115 95W BX80623172600 Quad Core 32GB ram in 2019 Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3L 1600 (PC3L 12800) Desktop Memory Model CT2K102464BD160B AMD Ryzen 9 3900x, 3.8 GHz, 12 core 105W CPU, Gigabyte X570 AORUS Ultra motherboard, 32 GB DDR4-2666 RAM, EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Super XC 8 GB Open Air video card, EVGA SuperNOVA 650W G+ Pwr Supply, CPU cooling=Noctura NH-U12S, Fractal Design R6 USB-C black case​

 

[Irap]

This one new feature in LR is a winfall for the computer manufactures. Lots of people will be replacing their old computers.

 

[JAS]

I tried it on a couple of photos at ISO 25600 comparing PL6 and the new LrC tool. Results are mixed with some of each showing excessive artifacting and other quality issues. That means the user must spend more time to learn both tools better to gauge their usability in specific cases. Just like all of the other tools we have - right place, right use, right tool to get the job done. Will keep experimenting.

 

[MartyD]

DxO PR3 Taking forever to process: I found that I could let it go for 20 minutes (I think it was) and the progress bar had risen to "35 minutes remaining".

I discovered the option to turn off the GPU and run from the CPU. It was still around 10 minutes, but at least it finished. The GPU (RTX 2070 super) is old, but no slouch. The CPU (AMD Ryzen 9 5900x) is actually still fairly modern, way too much for 10 minutes.

PR3 will process fine sometimes in LrC and then other times it will start process and then the processing times will just continue to climb, I don't think it is a slow processing issue it is a not processing at all issue. I haven't tried turning the GPU processing off yet but I will give it a try. I find it is less likely to hang in the Library module than in the Develop module.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

PR3 will process fine sometimes in LrC and then other times it will start process and then the processing times will just continue to climb, I don't think it is a slow processing issue it is a not processing at all issue. I haven't tried turning the GPU processing off yet but I will give it a try. I find it is less likely to hang in the Library module than in the Develop module.

That could certainly all be true, but still not good news for DxO. The user shouldn't have to troubleshoot to determine what state the tool is happy to operate in.

 

[MotoPixel]

PR3 will process fine sometimes in LrC and then other times it will start process and then the processing times will just continue to climb, I don't think it is a slow processing issue it is a not processing at all issue. I haven't tried turning the GPU processing off yet but I will give it a try. I find it is less likely to hang in the Library module than in the Develop module.

I assume you’re running the latest drivers for your GPU? Also, I’m not a gamer, so I run the “Studio” version of the nVidia drivers…they seem to be more stable and geared more towards content creation as opposed to squeezing every last bit of performance out for gaming.

 

[MartyD]

I assume you’re running the latest drivers for your GPU? Also, I’m not a gamer, so I run the “Studio” version of the nVidia drivers…they seem to be more stable and geared more towards content creation as opposed to squeezing every last bit of performance out for gaming.

Yes, all drivers up to date, using the studio drivers.

 

[Len Shepherd]

I've tested it quite a bit this week and I've found the new Adobe denoise to be at least equal to and, in many cases, slightly better than both Topaz Denoise AI and DxO PureRaw3. Adobe did a great job on this one!

I have not done side by side comparisons - but find it works well.

Depending on the image I find varying the "amount" slider in the range of 75-90% can help.

Using it can sometimes lighten shadows slightly, leading to needing modest further processing when used on an image processed before LRC denoise became available.

On the separate topic of computer specification - there is some indirect computer obsolescence

My mainly retired back-up 11 year old MacBook Pro cannot be updated beyond 10.15.7 Catalina and is incompatible with the latest LrC or Microsoft Word features.

My 15 year old 60mm AF-S macro works as well as when new - except it can perform better than in 2008 thanks to higher resolution sensors, some in camera focus stacking ability and features like denoise unavailable back then - though I still have to locate a subject in good condition in an ideal shooting situation to get the best out of it.

 

[MarkB]

A person in my cameral club is a certified Lightroom expert and he published a video with several comparisons between Lightroom and Topaz; his conclusion is that Lightroom is as good or better than Topaz. What was missing was what options were chose in Topaz. I did my own comparison of a few images and I concurred with his conclusion. In each case I let Topaz automatically choose which option to apply so maybe one could play with Topaz and get better results. Lightroom is pretty amazing for the first try at denoise AI. I likely will eventually drop Topaz. Hope the follow through with their desire to avoid creating a separate file.

 

[jhallettbc]

I suspect the sluggish performance you're seeing is due to the nature of the M1 chip and it's graphics optimizations being geared more towards certain video codecs and not necessarily the sort of computational methods for that Adobe has chosen in for their denoise algorithms. I do understand that for some types of graphics operations, the M1 chips are about equivalent to the GTX1050 mobile version, though in other operations, they're way beyond that.

I'd look to hear the results of other Mac users of different configurations. Given the memory usage I'm seeing my GPU use, it can be very intensive.

Nothing I've done on my fairly beefy Win 10 system has taken over 10 seconds. I've not yet updated my Dell XPS15 laptop (GTX1050 discrete GPU) and updated LRC, but will do that shortly and run some tests for comparison to my desktop. I've never used any of the Topaz products, so I can't speak to their performance or their optimal computing requirements. I've stuck with LRC, PS and DxO for years and that has served me very well.

I guess you are right about the M1 chip. Very odd since it's the only operation I've ever used on my iMac that was slow. Glad I'm completely happy with the standalone Topaz DeNoise. I don't need to use it often; normally I use the regular noise reduction in LR Classic and I'll continue to do so.

 

[Andrew Lamberson]

I don’t use photo ai and only use denoise. I do not like photo ai at all and honestly think it’s terrible. It oversharpens and does weird things with the colors on Sony files. Photo ai is the reason I started using dxo products. If this works out with Adobe, then not having to leave Lightroom alone is the best feature yet. I think topaz needs to go back to the three program model imo. Also I can still work on images in Lightroom which isn’t possible with any of the topaz products. Either way, I’ll be using Adobe or dxo.

I agree.... For lack of a better term...I get some very strange red/orange artifacts with it sometimes with my Sojy files. I've been sticking to the LR DeNoise and have been happy.

 

[Doomrider74]

I've just been editing some shots from yesterday and I think my conclusion is Pure Raw [2] is still better than LR Denoise: I think the former retains detail better.

 

[BarkingBeans Coffee]

I guess you are right about the M1 chip. Very odd since it's the only operation I've ever used on my iMac that was slow. Glad I'm completely happy with the standalone Topaz DeNoise. I don't need to use it often; normally I use the regular noise reduction in LR Classic and I'll continue to do so.

@jhallettbc Don't think it's the M1 chip. I think it's the GPU cores. When the M1 was out there were quite a few choices on the GPU depending on the which M1 you chose. You can read about the different M1 configurations here. I have the M1 Max with 24 GPU cores and I get a preview in 3 seconds with 25 second processing on most images.