i'm going to sell the 400 f4.5 and the 800 also i believe, if i find someone interested. I did also sell all my F mount lenses like you (600, 400, 180-400, 200f2 etc.). Expensive passion, but still less than a Porsche
Nikon 600 TC Sharpness Tests!
- Thread starter Steve
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ElenaH
Well-known member
I think, you can test it with the third-party lens like Sigma, Zeiss or Tamron. Becasue there are Sigmas für Nikon and for Sony (rent and test).
I am convinced that the camera body has less to do with OOF areas, 3D-effect, contrast and brilliance.
Some lenses are famous fo thier extraordinary qualities. Like, for example, Zeiss for OOF rendering, Meyer Optik Görlitz for bokeh, some Nikon lenses for extraordinary colour-saturation, some for brilliance and so on.
Certainly for rendering bokeh/oof area the lens is the difference. But for contrast and colors I think maybe not. No doubt there are differences between lenses but maybe not as much as differences in sensors and/or how cameras process the sensor data. Those differences are measured and published by those who do such comparative tests w/out the influence of lenses. Also keep in mind the camera is a post processing device. Each manufacturer uses their own algorithm. I shoot a Sony a6000 and Nikon D7200 which reportedly have the same sensor. Results are dramatically different. But of course with different lenses. Is lens or camera the dominant cause of the difference?
@Andy Miller Photo UK , might just be perspective but that 800pf looks down right dainty next to the big guns! lol
Wonderful family portrait.
Wonderful family portrait.
Midway
Well-known member
I am as close to the pitch as possible and try to set up behind the end line of the attacking goal if covering a specific team, between the 18 and sideline, a little closer to the sideline end.
I tend to get absorbed in the game and do not pay much attention to the photographers or their gear. You may have been able to relax during a 3 – 0 win over Wales while I needed to fight off a heart attack during USA’s 1 -0 win or go home game over Iran. I did notice they are lined up shoulder to shoulder up and down the entire sideline, not my preferred shooting position.
lwan
Well-known member
Gonna make this lens my 50th bday wish, by then there should be used ones and a version 2!
I'm thinking I'll just be getting mine shipped by your 50th birthday
Duff Photographer
New member
@Steve Thanks for the quick video review. It's appreciated. With no real in-field differences in image quality, I'll stick with my current gear despite the unwanted weight, although if one fell off the back of a lorry in tandem with a Z9 then...
As an aside, I wonder how the lens with TC engaged would compare to a F-mount 800mm f5.6E?!
Cheers.
Duff.
As an aside, I wonder how the lens with TC engaged would compare to a F-mount 800mm f5.6E?!
Cheers.
Duff.
I don't have an 800E, so I'm not sure. All I can tell you is that, for my use, all of the lenses reviewed are well beyond "good enough".
Duff Photographer
New member
Yes, on reflection, it was a moot "aside". The use of modern, high-end lenses seems to be coming down to practical application nowadays rather than the image quality, which is now a given.
Cheers,
Duff.
cchuck
ChuckCarlson
Wow, the size difference between 800 and 600 TC is greater than I expected. Thanks for posting the pic of the threesome!My Z 600mm f/4.0 TC VR S-line lens arrived earlier today !!!!
fcotterill
Well-known member
Absolutely Elena, it's all in the optics at least when these favoured lenses are fitted to a modern ILC. The links I shared on previous page to industry interviews give us interesting insights: including the designer's aims for the rendering of the the 58 f1.4G, aka the Neo-Noct. I value my copy highly and I recall you have also used this 58.
fcotterill
Well-known member
@Duff Photographer
I'm still in the process of comparing the 800 f5.6E and 800 PF with respect to distance and with the various TC options. One challenge is comparing their respective Teleconverters over longer distances in kind atmospheric conditions. This takes some time. Nevertheless, it's beyond doubt the bare 800 PF is very very good in sharpness, as the numerous published images confirm.
The 800 E images remind me very much of the excellent quality of the 400 f2.8E FL in sharpness and the OOF rendering. Beautiful smooth bokeh.
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The picture was taken with a 21mm on an X2D-100C and so amplifies/exaggerates the differences - plus the image includes the lens hoods. I have short Zemlin hoods on both the 400 and 800. The actual specs are shown below. I hope to provide measurements to Karl Z soon so he can fabricate hoods/caps for the Z600mm as well.
ElenaH
Well-known member
actually I have 58/1.4 from Voigtläner. It is also a very special lens. Voigtländer is a kind of afordable Zeiss (and produced in Cosina, too)
@NorthernFocus , I often take the same pictures with the different lens on the same body and can see the difference! Sometimes I even can determine the lens looking at the picture - so different they are. So, I would say the lenses make the difference at the first stage.
But you are right, the bodies make the difference, too. Especially during the last years when AI (firmware/software) comming into play. I think, we even don't know how really good or bad some of the Z-lenses are. Becasue they all are corrected in the camera! And when NEF-files (or other RAW files) are comming into processing software (like Abode) then the profiles are applied just before you are going to make some changes, they are some kind of display profiles to show the picture (each brand has its own) or you can display with embedded profile, for exaple.
I am waiting for some kind of bokeh made by the camera firmware. So, imagine you take a picture with 400/4.5 and it looks like 400/2.8
So, maybe it is quite possible in the future. If it will get the quality of Zeiss transition from sharp to unsharp - this is the other question ;-)According to my observations each lenses-brand has some specific features. For example Zeiss lenses have the excellent 3D, contrast and transition from sharp to unsharp. They also have the best dynamic range - I can still recover some highlights and shadows from Zeiss but cannot from Sigma, for example. But Sigmas have nice bokeh ;-) By the way Zeiss lenses have lead in the glass (not coating), this is why they are so heavy. Takumar lenses have radioactive thorium in glass-elements.
I let to measure the radio-activity of one Takumar lens in a certified labor and they counted the amount of hours I can have it in front of my eye per year without any qustions of some consequences. It was 200 hours/year. Even Nikon has some redioactive lenses (old ones). So, they put those radioactive elements for refraction index.
The lenses with field curvature have nice 3D -effect. The lenses with low elements-count have nice colours (for example Nikkor 180/2.8) but sometimes horribe CAs. Almost each lens has its own character. And sometimes I need to take it in account (like or example., don't take pictures with 180/2.8 against the light).
And now those CAs can be corrected by firmware. I think, such lens wih low elemens is Nikkor Z 40mm f2. So, actually they can build some interesting lens without some correction troubles which can be made in post! The new world of opportunities for designers! And that big mount (Z=55mm) and that flange distance, oooooh!! I think, we will see some very interesting lenses with pronounced character!
Steve's video helped me finally decide on my telephoto end of things. I've had the 800 PF on order since April and seriously considered the 600 instead when it was announced. However Steve's tests show that 800 is no slouch when it comes to sharpness. So I've decided I'm going to wait it out for the 800. To complement it, I just put in a deposit for the 400mm 2.8z so that should get me a nice range of 400-800 mm. Now, how long until I see a 400 2.8z is anyone's guess. I'm hoping to have either at the latest by next May.
First quick shots with my new Z 600/4 TC -- I had forgotten that I needed 1/2500th or faster when out at 840mm and with the DX crop .... but WOW
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cchuck
ChuckCarlson
Thanks, Andy, for posting these superb pics! I had to look up Wood Pigeon to discover the non-round pupil is normal. Nice to see it show up so clearly at 840mm.
A few from today with the Red Deer in Richmond Park London -- cold for the South of UK -- these were both taken with slow shutter speeds (1/400th) - the first at 600mm and 2nd at 840mm
AND a "reach in shot - Shot from 29.8m - 840mm (600+Internal 1.4TC) plus DX crop to reach in = 1,260mm.
AND forgetting to switch back out of DX crop -- can still work - as the Stag calls out his dominance or is just sniffing the air - shot at an effective 900mm (NIKON Z 9 NIKKOR Z 600mm f-4 TC VR S - 600 mm ¹⁄₁₂₅₀ sec at ƒ - 6.3 ISO 450 ‒ ⅓ EV-NEF_DP-DN-WM) -- Steve was right (of course) assigning FX/DX switching to a lens button does come with the risk that one accidently engages DX crop. In my case extreme ancientness leads me to forget and ignore the flashing DX symbol in the EVF while I am in mid "hunt"/stalk. Sure -- better to stay in FX image area and crop later. BUT -- I was trying to see what these images would be like.
An album of initial shots with this lens on flickr will keep growing - Initial Shots
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AND a "reach in shot - Shot from 29.8m - 840mm (600+Internal 1.4TC) plus DX crop to reach in = 1,260mm.
AND forgetting to switch back out of DX crop -- can still work - as the Stag calls out his dominance or is just sniffing the air - shot at an effective 900mm (NIKON Z 9 NIKKOR Z 600mm f-4 TC VR S - 600 mm ¹⁄₁₂₅₀ sec at ƒ - 6.3 ISO 450 ‒ ⅓ EV-NEF_DP-DN-WM) -- Steve was right (of course) assigning FX/DX switching to a lens button does come with the risk that one accidently engages DX crop. In my case extreme ancientness leads me to forget and ignore the flashing DX symbol in the EVF while I am in mid "hunt"/stalk. Sure -- better to stay in FX image area and crop later. BUT -- I was trying to see what these images would be like.
An album of initial shots with this lens on flickr will keep growing - Initial Shots
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cchuck
ChuckCarlson
Wow x 3!
I posted a brief and very rough video on YouTube of the shoot
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Thanks for the video Steve, very nicely done and probably answered most of the immediate questions about this new lens. I have certainly been wrestling with the possibility of purchasing this lens, I just have not been able to convince myself to spend that much money yet. That built in TC sure is appealing though!
DRM
Well-known member
Fantastic shots. This last one belongs on a magazine cover.