Nikon FTZ Essential Info & Speed Tests!

[Steve]

OK, there have been a few comments here and elsewhere wondering about the AF speed of the gripped D850 + ENEL18 battery and un-gripped D850 + the normal battery and how that affects speed.

I've been saying that I believe the speed is the same, but it was bugging me since I haven't actually tested it. So, I just grabbed the 600E and tested with D850 with and without the grip (all batteries in question fully charged).

Yup, both are the same. 1/2 second (15 frames @ 30FPS).

I still contend that the speeds we're seeing both from the Z9 and and the D850 are simply the fastest speeds the AF motor can get the lens from minimum focus to infinity.

 

[Dave Stargazer]

It was gripped with the D5 battery. I'm not confident that it actually makes a difference in AF speed though - I think the D850 drives the lens at the maximum speed the lens motor is capable of either way. Anecdotally, I've never noticed any difference in AF speed between the gripped and unwrapped D850 and Nikon never states that it makes a difference. I though think if it did they would brag about it.

Thanks for clearing that up Steve (you had the ungripped illustration in the vid, but I guessed you had a grip + battery).

One thing we do know is that we can't get 9fps out of the D850 without the big battery - so it makes a difference there to drive that motor. I've suspected that the lesser performace of my z6ii with bigger glass is due to the smaller battery there.

Definitive info would be if someone could get a voltmeter between the mount and the lens to see how much power is being delivered.

And I do agree with you that the AF speed diff for the 200-500mm between D850 gripped and ungripped is minimal, but I think there is some diff (could be wrong! haha). [Edit: WRONG! haha]

And Nikon is historically not a braggy sort of company - they almost always underpromise and overdeliver....and under react when disinfo is put out about them. Their marketing campaign for the Z9 though has been excellent I think. Yes, it's driven some of the spec watchers nuts ("Wut? *Another* teaser???), but they're doing several things they've never done before - a new release/announcement/leak every couple of weeks to keep the buzz going. Plus the obvious new tactic of giving early access to 'influencers' - including some unmentionable/unwatchable ones lol.

But I'd love to see you get early access to this stuff, - the flip side of that is that you (rightly imo) don't do 'insta-reviews' which is what they want at that stage of the campaign. You take a measured, thorough approach. Counter example is Thom Hogan who did get a couple of second round pre-release Z9's (via a specific use request of an already planned Africa trip) - he almost always does long term reviews, as do you, Steve. This time he has banged out a running blog on the trip though, and his initial impressions each day as he went.... Just speculating on why Nikon didn't give you early access...

Cheers!

...Dave...

 

[Steve]

Nice that the Z9 focuses as fast as the D850 does and what that means for the trickle down effect of the Z9 tech to the Z7III or whatever they decide to call the non gripped body. I'm not going to dispute Steve's numbers since he measured them and the numbers are what they are…but as a practical matter I'm not sure how much it really matters. Some of his (or maybe somebody else's, can't remember) previous testing did a similar test but with the focus limiter switch engaged so that the full focus ring through was much smaller. In those tests…the difference was still there but the magnitude of both the numbers and the difference was smaller…and as a practical matter I can't really say that using the adapted 500PF in focus limiter mode on my Z7II vs using it in the same mode on my previous D7500 makes any appreciable difference in speed. Yes…it's there, but an extra .2 of a second or so in focus limiter mode doesn't make a noticeable difference to me. True…you then can only focus from 8m to infinity with the 500PF instead of whatever the actual minimum focus distance is…but as a practical matter I almost never need to pull the lens out of focus limiter mode so it's really not a non problem. This also won't help much if you are focusing on close subjects since there's more focus ring throw there per change in focus distance than for distant subjects…but again I don't shoot very many wildlife shots at less than 25 feet anyway.

I think for most practical purposes, I would agree it makes little difference. Where I notice the difference is in two places - when the lens hunts and when shooting close-range subjects. At close range, the lens has to turn the focusing ring more for changes in distance than it does at normal and distant ranges. In addition, I've also found over the years - with any camera - the really close-range subjects are tougher to lock on and you get more hunting - again, making a slow lens less than pleasant to use.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for clearing that up Steve (you had the ungripped illustration in the vid, but I guessed you had a grip + battery).

One thing we do know is that we can't get 9fps out of the D850 without the big battery - so it makes a difference there to drive that motor. I've suspected that the lesser performace of my z6ii with bigger glass is due to the smaller battery there.

Definitive info would be if someone could get a voltmeter between the mount and the lens to see how much power is being delivered.

And I do agree with you that the AF speed diff for the 200-500mm between D850 gripped and ungripped is minimal, but I think there is some diff (could be wrong! haha). [Edit: WRONG! haha]

And Nikon is historically not a braggy sort of company - they almost always underpromise and overdeliver....and under react when disinfo is put out about them. Their marketing campaign for the Z9 though has been excellent I think. Yes, it's driven some of the spec watchers nuts ("Wut? *Another* teaser???), but they're doing several things they've never done before - a new release/announcement/leak every couple of weeks to keep the buzz going. Plus the obvious new tactic of giving early access to 'influencers' - including some unmentionable/unwatchable ones lol.

But I'd love to see you get early access to this stuff, - the flip side of that is that you (rightly imo) don't do 'insta-reviews' which is what they want at that stage of the campaign. You take a measured, thorough approach. Counter example is Thom Hogan who did get a couple of second round pre-release Z9's (via a specific use request of an already planned Africa trip) - he almost always does long term reviews, as do you, Steve. This time he has banged out a running blog on the trip though, and his initial impressions each day as he went.... Just speculating on why Nikon didn't give you early access...

Cheers!

...Dave...

Hi Dave -

I think you were probably typing when I posted my new findings with the D850, gripped and ungripped. I just tested to see if the lens actually does focus the same speed with and without the grip - and it does. And that's using the 600mm! Either way, 1/2 second. (grip has D5/6 battery of course)

 

[Brian K]

Thanks for the FTZ performance testing, Steve. Since I finally got a refurbished 800mm lens, I’m super happy to hear it will work so well with the Z9. Now I just have to wait for my Z9 to be delivered!

 

[Anjin San]

I think for most practical purposes, I would agree it makes little difference. Where I notice the difference is in two places - when the lens hunts and when shooting close-range subjects. At close range, the lens has to turn the focusing ring more for changes in distance than it does at normal and distant ranges. In addition, I've also found over the years - with any camera - the really close-range subjects are tougher to lock on and you get more hunting - again, making a slow lens less than pleasant to use.

Yep…both instances are where it probably matters more…and I wasn't implying it didn't…just that for me at least with the focus limiter engaged there isn't much of a difference…and I do think we'll see the same sort of improvement trickle down.

 

[Nimi]

In 20 years a journalist will write a story about the miraculous turnaround of Nikon and the FTZ will be cited as the main reason.

 

[Ad Astra]

Thanks Steve, a useful video on an item not easy to find important details about like impact on focus speed. Also very timely as my FTZ II arrives tomorrow.

 

[Nextlife1]

I have used my Z9 since I got it (Dec 24) pretty extensively with all 3 DSLR TCs and the 500mm PF. With respect to autofocusing I really have noticed no difference from the lens alone—no sluggishness or hunting of any kind at least in decent light. With respect to sharpness the TC14 is sharp as expected, but the TC2.0 has really shocked me. I have never liked results with the TC20 even on the 400/2.8 FL but with the Z9 it is pretty amazing. Very sharp in my experience. The TC17 is sharp as well, but subjectively my sense is it is not quite as sharp as the TC20 (?because it is second not third generation). But the TC17 is still perfectly useable, something I never felt with my DSLRs.

 

[txstone]

Thank you, Steve. I liked this overview of the FTZ adapters and AF performance.

There’s another AF aspect that I haven’t noticed being addressed – improved Z-mount communications with the lens highlighted by this Z9 performance parameter

• AF and AE calculations are made at 120 cycles per second with rapid, constant communication between the lens and the camera through the Z mount.

Imaging Resource interview with Nikon

The new Nikon Z- mount system has high-speed communication: “The Z-mount has new electrical connections that support very high-speed digital communication between the lens and camera body. That improved the autofocus accuracy and performance. …
​

https://nikonrumors.com/2019/03/30/...s-help-lens-design-and-af.aspx/#ixzz7IM0lDtAc

To support the high-speed camera-lens communications, Nikon added electrical contacts to the Z-mount and lenses - eleven contacts versus 8-10 for the F-mount.

So the AF performance via the FTZ adapters includes additional good news – they appear to preserve much of the improved communication benefits.

I think it becomes more difficult now to attribute AF performance improvements to components of the Z9 (as with other flagships and top performers). Is it the EXPEED 7 processor, is it the fast sensor readout with the stacked CMOS sensor, is it the Blackout Free live viewfinder, is it the Z-mount improved communications, ...?

 

[RichF]

In this video, we’ll reveal everything you need to know about the Nikon FTZ adapters, as well as answer questions like:

Does the FTZ adapter slow down F-mount lenses? (This is a shocker)
Does the FTZ adapter hurt image quality?
Can you use Z-mount TCs with the FTZ adapter?
Why is the FTZ adapter so thick?
Is there any difference between the original FTZ and the new one?

And so much more! If you’re a Nikon mirrorless shooter, you owe it to yourself to watch this quick 8-minute video!

Quick follow-up.

There have been a few comments here and elsewhere wondering about the AF speed of the gripped D850 + ENEL18 battery and un-gripped D850 + the normal battery and how that affects speed.

I've been saying that I believe the speed is the same, but it was bugging me since I haven't actually tested it. So, I just grabbed the 600E and tested with D850 with and without the grip (all batteries in question fully charged).

Yup, both are the same. 1/2 second (15 frames @ 30FPS).

I still contend that the speeds we're seeing both from the Z9 and and the D850 are simply the fastest speeds the AF motor can get the lens from minimum focus to infinity.

Great video. Did you try a D5 or D6? If not, why? Other than complicating things

 

[RichF]

The biggest issue I've seen with the 500PF + 1.4TC is AF sluggishness and inconsistency on DSLRs. I haven't used that combo in the field on the Z9, but I'm pretty confident it'll be just fine. When you do nail focus with the 500PF + 1.4TC, it's very sharp and I think the Z9 will make that much easier.

I agree. The 500 PF + TC is like a turtle on quaaludes.

 

[Steve]

I think it becomes more difficult now to attribute AF performance improvements to components of the Z9 (as with other flagships and top performers). Is it the EXPEED 7 processor, is it the fast sensor readout with the stacked CMOS sensor, is it the Blackout Free live viewfinder, is it the Z-mount improved communications, ...?

Man it beats me. Honestly, I really don't care why it works well, as long as it does!

 

[Steve]

Great video. Did you try a D5 or D6? If not, why? Other than complicating things

I did not because I no longer own a D6. Had to sell it to finance the Z9.

However, in my experience the D850 isn't any faster than the D6 for this kind of thing. The D5/6 tend to grab onto targets with more initial accuracy than the D850, but as far as driving the lens, I think they are about the same. The motors in the lenses only move it so fast, no matter what is hooked to it.

 

[jeffnles1]

Nice video Steve. Good info to know about FTZ performance.

 

[Ivan Rothman]

Steve, thank you so much for the video. No one educates me as much about my cameras as you do.
I have the Z9 with a number of Z lenses, including the 100-400 with teleconverters, which I'm expecting a lot from. I'm off on my first real photo trip with the Z9 next week to Maryland for Winter Water Fowl and it will be my first real field experience with the camera.
But I have wondered about still having to shoot with the F-mount 600mm and the 300mm PF lenses, 2 lenses that have been very important to me. Now after seeing your results with the FTZ adapter, I have no doubt that I won't miss my DSLRs when using my big glass.

 

[ruley74]

Sensation Steve, thank you for knocking this out. The result with the TC is particularly awesome!

 

[Nimi]

I have used my Z9 since I got it (Dec 24) pretty extensively with all 3 DSLR TCs and the 500mm PF. With respect to autofocusing I really have noticed no difference from the lens alone—no sluggishness or hunting of any kind at least in decent light. With respect to sharpness the TC14 is sharp as expected, but the TC2.0 has really shocked me. I have never liked results with the TC20 even on the 400/2.8 FL but with the Z9 it is pretty amazing. Very sharp in my experience. The TC17 is sharp as well, but subjectively my sense is it is not quite as sharp as the TC20 (?because it is second not third generation). But the TC17 is still perfectly useable, something I never felt with my DSLRs.

Based on your comments I picked up a 2.0iii to go with the 500 and 9.

 

[Steve]

Another quick update. I knew I had tested the D6 and 600mm like this (no TC) and I finally found the clip and checked the time (I KNEW I had done that test at one point). The D6 speed for the 600mm from minimum focus to infinity is also 1/2 second, just like the D850 and just like the Z9. Again, I'm pretty sure the 600 F/4 tops out at 1/2 second from minimum focus distance to infinity no matter what camera is attached.

 

[Dave Stargazer]

Hi Dave -

I think you were probably typing when I posted my new findings with the D850, gripped and ungripped. I just tested to see if the lens actually does focus the same speed with and without the grip - and it does. And that's using the 600mm! Either way, 1/2 second. (grip has D5/6 battery of course)

haha yes exactly what happened, so I went back and put an [Edit WRONG!] in my original post at the appropriate point. Thanks again for the info/testing!

...Dave...

 

[RichF]

I did not because I no longer own a D6. Had to sell it to finance the Z9.

However, in my experience the D850 isn't any faster than the D6 for this kind of thing. The D5/6 tend to grab onto targets with more initial accuracy than the D850, but as far as driving the lens, I think they are about the same. The motors in the lenses only move it so fast, no matter what is hooked to it.

Thanks. Not sure how much effort it is to measure driving time, but if you can readily do this - compare driving of Z 9 w/ 100-400 with and without TC 1.4 and possibly 2.0.

 

[Steve]

Thanks. Not sure how much effort it is to measure driving time, but if you can readily do this - compare driving of Z 9 w/ 100-400 with and without TC 1.4 and possibly 2.0.

The trick is that with the DSLR lenses, I have a window that moves in real time. With the mirrorless I can do it with an atomos, but the atomos may slow down the overall speed since the camera is outputting. I could likely see if the the TC makes a difference, but the times would be suspect.

 

[Whiskeyman]

For those comparing AF performance, with TCs, between mirrorless and mirrored bodies, were you testing the mirrored bodies in Liveview, or through the prism, or both? I'd be interested in the differences in speed, but accuracy moreso, using just contrast detection AF techniqques, instead of comparing phase detection and contrast detection between camera bodies.

 

[Steve]

For those comparing AF performance, with TCs, between mirrorless and mirrored bodies, were you testing the mirrored bodies in Liveview, or through the prism, or both? I'd be interested in the differences in speed, but accuracy moreso, using just contrast detection AF techniqques, instead of comparing phase detection and contrast detection between camera bodies.

For all of my tests I was using the DSLR in normal, viewfinder shooting mode, not Live View. LV would be slower.
Also, the tests I did were PDAF vs PDAF - the Z9 uses on-sensor PDAF, not contrast detection.

 

[Harry.G]

Fantastic test results Steve , and great to hear from my perspective that the F Mount glass performs well with the FTZ on the Z cameras , I`ll be a long way of from being able to afford a Z9 however I`m in the market soon for a Z7ii and given that I have some nice F mount glass its a welcome and pleasant surprise..

I must admit I`ve been pretty apprehensive to pull the trigger on a Z camera purely because of the cost involved with the Z Glass . I`m currently using a D500 and some of the F Glass I own includes a 70-200 f/2.8 .. 16-35 f/4 , 85mm f/2.8.... I`m wondering how my Sigma 150-600C and Sigma 100-400 would perform with the FTZ on a Z7ii .. although its not Native glass butI`d be interested on the outcome ...

Can I throw this at you Steve and ask what your suspicions ""Might be"" as to how well or not the Sigma 150-600 and Sigma 100-400 may perform on a Z7ii with the FTZ ? No pressure and I wont hold you to anything I`m just looking for an educated guess based off your experience in general ...

many thanks for the test results Steve its given me a fair bit of hope and encouragement about dipping my Toe into the Mirrorless world ...


Harry.G