Nikon Lens Timeshare?

[Abinoone]

What would you think of buying shares in a pool of high-end lenses? What if you could get guaranteed access to lenses like the Nikon 600E f4, 180-400 f4 E TC 1.4, and 400 f2.8E, etc. for a set number of weeks or months each year at a fraction of the cost of buying this equipment on your own? Let's imagine 10 people pony up $3,600 each to purchase the above three (or other) lenses, for which they receive 5 weeks usage of each lens per year. This would amount to about $720 per person per year for access to all three lenses over a 5-year time period. Add to this the cost of insurance and shipping. Still a heck of a lot cheaper than renting the lenses from a professional firm, or buying them individually on your own.

The concept has been used successfully for real estate, boats, planes, and other expensive toys, so why not for camera equipment? Maybe I'm being naive, but perhaps it's worth a conversation.

 

[Viseguy]

I personally don't think this would work out. Just look at all the people trying to dump their time share because its never available when they want to use it.

 

[frdjohns]

It's an interesting idea, but not one I would participate in. Most folks that use the big glass are either sports or wildlife photograpers. I imagine everyone would want the same times around Spring (when babies are born or Spring sports are played) or Fall (Fall colors, mating for many mammals and Fall sports). Add to that the headache of damage (you receive it and it doesn't function; the person before you claims it worked just fine). Plus, what happens when you want out? We've all heard the horror stories of timeshares in vacation properties. I think it would be less trouble, and maybe cheaper, to rent the lens you need for the time you need it. Just my opinion.

 

[DavidT]

It is an interesting concept but who manages, who is responsible for managing inventory, shipping, collecting monies, enforcing theft or over use etc etc. You would really need to make it a business just like Lens Rentals for example. Roger started it by listing his own personal gear for rental. He quickly realized he never had any of his own gear to use anymore because it was always on a rental. This is how he grew his business to the large enterprise it is today. The reason I bring this up is he is an MD who quit his job because this paid a lot more than being a doctor! I believe I read he has over 100 employees and quickly is outgrowing each of the warehouses they have expanded into.

Great problems to be had and it is clear that a lot of people don't want to buy gear they won't use often. So with that being the case would someone be willing to pay a time share for gear they would either not use often (those who rent) or use it often enough that it just makes more sense buying it. There are lots of options to borrow money to buy an exotic lens for example. For those who have enough liquidity to shell out $3,600 a year and would gain value from this but don't have enough to say buy a new 600f4 are either ones who will save up and buy used or finance the purchase of a new one. A 60 month loan at say 9% on a $14K lens is probably about $300 a month or $3,600 a year. I am not saying this is a bad idea however I would say trying to get a group of say 10 photographers to chip in the kind of money it would take to buy a fleet of 600mm primes so they are available when they want them for the length of time they want them is probably not practical. Now I could see a company like Lens Rental offering a tiered subscription base that gives folks access but they already have the inventory to support such an idea.

I personally wouldn't do it as I tend to use my larger glass often. Ironically the short less expensive glass I don't use that often and could probably rent a 24-70 for the couple of times I use it a year but after a few rentals I might as well have bought it.

When looking at time shares for planes, boats, condo's etc. financial advisers will warn you that it is a horrible investment/use of money. It is appealing to those who sign up for time shares because those items are very expensive and could be valued in the millions of dollars vs a lens valued at thousands.

Great out of the box thinking and I look forward to hearing folks opinions.

 

[Palouse]

What would you think of buying shares in a pool of high-end lenses? What if you could get guaranteed access to lenses like the Nikon 600E f4, 180-400 f4 E TC 1.4, and 400 f2.8E, etc. for a set number of weeks or months each year at a fraction of the cost of buying this equipment on your own? Let's imagine 10 people pony up $3,600 each to purchase the above three (or other) lenses, for which they receive 5 weeks usage of each lens per year. This would amount to about $720 per person per year for access to all three lenses over a 5-year time period. Add to this the cost of insurance and shipping. Still a heck of a lot cheaper than renting the lenses from a professional firm, or buying them individually on your own.

The concept has been used successfully for real estate, boats, planes, and other expensive toys, so why not for camera equipment? Maybe I'm being naive, but perhaps it's worth a conversation.

Lens Rental Lite?

 

[Abinoone]

It is an interesting concept but who manages, who is responsible for managing inventory, shipping, collecting monies, enforcing theft or over use etc etc. You would really need to make it a business just like Lens Rentals for example. Roger started it by listing his own personal gear for rental. He quickly realized he never had any of his own gear to use anymore because it was always on a rental. This is how he grew his business to the large enterprise it is today. The reason I bring this up is he is an MD who quit his job because this paid a lot more than being a doctor! I believe I read he has over 100 employees and quickly is outgrowing each of the warehouses they have expanded into.

Great problems to be had and it is clear that a lot of people don't want to buy gear they won't use often. So with that being the case would someone be willing to pay a time share for gear they would either not use often (those who rent) or use it often enough that it just makes more sense buying it. There are lots of options to borrow money to buy an exotic lens for example. For those who have enough liquidity to shell out $3,600 a year and would gain value from this but don't have enough to say buy a new 600f4 are either ones who will save up and buy used or finance the purchase of a new one. A 60 month loan at say 9% on a $14K lens is probably about $300 a month or $3,600 a year. I am not saying this is a bad idea however I would say trying to get a group of say 10 photographers to chip in the kind of money it would take to buy a fleet of 600mm primes so they are available when they want them for the length of time they want them is probably not practical. Now I could see a company like Lens Rental offering a tiered subscription base that gives folks access but they already have the inventory to support such an idea.

I personally wouldn't do it as I tend to use my larger glass often. Ironically the short less expensive glass I don't use that often and could probably rent a 24-70 for the couple of times I use it a year but after a few rentals I might as well have bought it.

When looking at time shares for planes, boats, condo's etc. financial advisers will warn you that it is a horrible investment/use of money. It is appealing to those who sign up for time shares because those items are very expensive and could be valued in the millions of dollars vs a lens valued at thousands.

Great out of the box thinking and I look forward to hearing folks opinions.

Actually David, I was hoping that you would volunteer to head the enterprise up! Yeah, I do realize that it's a potentially problem fraught idea, but I read about so many amateurs (like myself) who wish they could justify plunking down $12,000 for these exotic lenses. I can afford it, but the frugal side of me questions the wisdom of doing so for a hobby. I sometimes rent lenses, but the rentals can be crazy expensive (as, for example, $1,000 for 14 days on a 180-400 f4). This is why I thought of a sort of not-for-profit coop of amateur photographers who share equipment.

I like your idea of lensrentals.com offering subscriptions on different tiers, but my guess is that it would be prohibitively expensive to make it worthwhile, which may be the reason they haven't done it.

Anyway, it's an interesting thing to think about.

 

[Abinoone]

Lens Rental Lite?

Exactly - lens rental non profit.

 

[RichF]

MIght work with a camera club or small group of friends. If the group got much larger, you suddenly would be a lens rental company, albeit a private, limited membership company. You could do things like tiered membership, equity member get first priority, non-equity members could rent. Of course then you get into the logistical challenge of storing the equipment, cleaning it, repairs if needed, ...

I thought about this for cards. Normally I don't need a lot of cards but when I travel I take some extras. At $200 a pop for a CFE or XQD 128GB (or more for larger cards) ...

Bottom line for me, I don't want to get into the lens rental/handling business. Too many headaches, etc. But if you are interested, you might approach a lens rent company and see if they would strike a deal for priority rental in exchange for cash up front.

 

[RichF]

Exactly - lens rental non profit.

Assuming their profit margin is 10%, you might save 10% off renting. If local you could save $ from reduced shipping costs. But who would manage it - volunteer (trade time for $) or pay someone in which case low volume would destroy any savings. I think the overhead once you get more than 3 or 4 close friends together would kill the cost. Then you need to deal with conflicts who get wish lens when?

 

[DavidT]

Actually David, I was hoping that you would volunteer to head the enterprise up! Yeah, I do realize that it's a potentially problem fraught idea, but I read about so many amateurs (like myself) who wish they could justify plunking down $12,000 for these exotic lenses. I can afford it, but the frugal side of me questions the wisdom of doing so for a hobby. I sometimes rent lenses, but the rentals can be crazy expensive (as, for example, $1,000 for 14 days on a 180-400 f4). This is why I thought of a sort of not-for-profit coop of amateur photographers who share equipment.

I like your idea of lensrentals.com offering subscriptions on different tiers, but my guess is that it would be prohibitively expensive to make it worthwhile, which may be the reason they haven't done it.

Anyway, it's an interesting thing to think about.

LOL no thank you! I am working hard at trying to not work as hard so I have more time to play lol. It is an interesting concept. I think in a large enough area where shipping isn't an issue it could make more sense. I can see the logic behind it but I struggle with the logistics of it and just how much gear you would need to support the pool of photographers. I think another challenge is we all shoot different brands and some of us are shooting more than one brand for the time being. So it would be hard to support all the brands each would want access to. Plus you have manufactures changing mounts and the move from DSLR to mirrorless. It just begins to be complicated and without it being a business for profit it would be hard to keep the gear current. Lens rentals for example has a policy no matter how nice the gear is in they replace it every 4 years (exception for gear that say isn't made anymore). This is to ensure the quality of gear and lessen the likelihood someone gets a lens or body and it doesn't work on their once in a lifetime trip.

So many moving parts and to get a group of people to all agree on a path and be willing to fund it would be a real challenge. Fastest way to lose friends is mix money.

 

[Abinoone]

LOL no thank you! I am working hard at trying to not work as hard so I have more time to play lol. It is an interesting concept. I think in a large enough area where shipping isn't an issue it could make more sense. I can see the logic behind it but I struggle with the logistics of it and just how much gear you would need to support the pool of photographers. I think another challenge is we all shoot different brands and some of us are shooting more than one brand for the time being. So it would be hard to support all the brands each would want access to. Plus you have manufactures changing mounts and the move from DSLR to mirrorless. It just begins to be complicated and without it being a business for profit it would be hard to keep the gear current. Lens rentals for example has a policy no matter how nice the gear is in they replace it every 4 years (exception for gear that say isn't made anymore). This is to ensure the quality of gear and lessen the likelihood someone gets a lens or body and it doesn't work on their once in a lifetime trip.

So many moving parts and to get a group of people to all agree on a path and be willing to fund it would be a real challenge. Fastest way to lose friends is mix money.

Fastest way to lose friends is mix money. Amen to that!

 

[Viseguy]

I sometimes rent lenses, but the rentals can be crazy expensive (as, for example, $1,000 for 14 days on a 180-400 f4).

You might look for photo events in which the organizer will rent you a lens. You won't have to carry it on the plane, it will be waiting for you. I don't rent these myself, but I know the Photographer running the great migration safari I'm going on in a couple weeks rents 300 and 400 f2.8 lenses w/1.4 TCs in both Canon and Nikon mounts for $250/350, which seems reasonable to me.

 

[Whiskeyman]

You had me convinced until you used the word "timeshare."

Ain't no way!!!

 

[RichF]

You had me convinced until you used the word "timeshare."

Ain't no way!!!

A few camera club members could pull this off, or very good friends. But not if everyone shoots at the same time. Plus is something goes works with a lens, who pays for it?? Seems that dealing w/ 3rd party reduces tensions

 

[Pam Jensen]

What would you think of buying shares in a pool of high-end lenses? What if you could get guaranteed access to lenses like the Nikon 600E f4, 180-400 f4 E TC 1.4, and 400 f2.8E, etc. for a set number of weeks or months each year at a fraction of the cost of buying this equipment on your own? Let's imagine 10 people pony up $3,600 each to purchase the above three (or other) lenses, for which they receive 5 weeks usage of each lens per year. This would amount to about $720 per person per year for access to all three lenses over a 5-year time period. Add to this the cost of insurance and shipping. Still a heck of a lot cheaper than renting the lenses from a professional firm, or buying them individually on your own.

The concept has been used successfully for real estate, boats, planes, and other expensive toys, so why not for camera equipment? Maybe I'm being naive, but perhaps it's worth a conversation.

Ah … seems familiar, the term RENTAL comes to mind.

 

[O]

I borrow or mostly i rent exotics happily, its a lot cheaper and a tax deduction.
I have only occasional demand for super long exotics.....

Oz down under

 

[Pam Jensen]

I just saw that you can do this thru Nikon Professional Service (https://www.nikonusa.com/en/service-and-support/nps/index.page). Cannon has a membership as well.

 

[O]

I have been an NPS member for a long time, and if your in a money making situation its an absolute must, for a commercial application subject to availability, its best to book ahead and use the privilege with respect.

If i have an item failure or need something urgently on location or the office/studio Nikon express couriers a camera or lens immediately, for routeen services items they send a courier to my home or office to collect and send it back by courier as well, all for free.

The service with Nikon in Sydney is simply 5 star.
Canon service is OK.
Sony Sydney has a real clicky corporate attitude, and no where near the service and support.

I know Nikon has cut back the NPS staff and service in the USA. It seems revenue has become necessary.

Hey Nikon has been brilliant to date........i hope it doesn't change but that doesn't excuse them for dragging their heels LOL, although that doesn't bother me that much.......

Canon would be my choice after Nikon.

I rent mostly if things are not readily available from Nikon, hey you just add it on to the job.

Mate $30,000 in to pro lenses alone is dead money when they sit there 70% of the time.......i can rent 75 times plus have the cost as a tax deduction.
Its different if am out using it every day for personal pleasure..............but if i am doing 3 or 4 trips a year for a week or so at a time renting makes sense.


Oz Down Under

 

[Pam Jensen]

I have been an NPS member for a long time, and if your in a money making situation its an absolute must, for a commercial application subject to availability, its best to book ahead and use the privilege with respect.

If i have an item failure or need something urgently on location or the office/studio Nikon express couriers a camera or lens immediately, for routeen services items they send a courier to my home or office to collect and send it back by courier as well, all for free.

The service with Nikon in Sydney is simply 5 star.
Canon service is OK.
Sony Sydney has a real clicky corporate attitude, and no where near the service and support.

I know Nikon has cut back the NPS staff and service in the USA. It seems revenue has become necessary.

Hey Nikon has been brilliant to date........i hope it doesn't change but that doesn't excuse them for dragging their heels LOL, although that doesn't bother me that much.......

Canon would be my choice after Nikon.

I rent mostly if things are not readily available from Nikon, hey you just add it on to the job.

Mate $30,000 in to pro lenses alone is dead money when they sit there 70% of the time.......i can rent 75 times plus have the cost as a tax deduction.
Its different if am out using it every day for personal pleasure..............but if i am doing 3 or 4 trips a year for a week or so at a time renting makes sense.


Oz Down Under

Really appreciate your feedback and opinion on this service. You are so correct - regarding the rental. Such a great idea!

 

[NorthernFocus]

I can't even wrap my head around the concept of time sharing equipment. Why wouldn't I just rent it if/when I need it? Not seeing any advantages and a number of potential pitfalls.

 

[O]

I Used to see some of my friends time share with Yachts/cruiser boats worth in some cases up to a Million $ with 6 of them bought in, and mate it started of great but as usual turned into a **** fight period. No pets are allowed and your Sarah brought her puppy on board and it peed on the sofa, your child scratched the varnished deck with their scate board, no it was like that, no it wasn't and so on, you didn't fill the fuel up to full it was only 90% full, why didn't you clean the toilet or fill up the water again, the alarm wasn't turned on when you left it.
Time share is only as good as the people who actually get involved..........the logistics of timing was an issue as when it came to your turn the weather was bad on 3 out of 6 ocasions so you want to pull out now you have to find someone else top take your place.........

I used to buy pre owned sail boats with potential, $50-$90K, 35 - 45 footers, only selected brands and type, i would do them up slowly strip paint and refit things inside clean up their bums, repair the diesels if needed, all over say 6-12 months usually, while I was still sailing in them at least every 2 weeks 3 weeks for a day or weekend, i would repair sails or replace with good used ones, spit and polish the chrome LOL basically a bit of a make over, i would resell them in the beginning of the season recovering costs and some, generally about 20-25% profit and as it was personal hey it wasn't bad cop, it paid for my passion and i had great relaxing fun doing it.

As to exotic lenses, that's a whole different story, its only going to be as good as the personality's involved trust me and if something goes wrong gee friendships can be lost.

To me the best way is

A) find a good rental arrangement,
B) lease, if applicable
C) finance on your mortgage using the low interest rate, and pay interest only is the cheapest way to have $30,000 worth of glass,
your only other cost would be depreciation when reselling.
D) paying cash is a NO NO, unless your loaded and its small change to you..then forget everything i am saying.


OZ down under