Nikon Z8 Rumour or Truth ? ?

[marc]

Really -- I have 2 Z9 bodies and so do each of the folk I shoot with. As I understand it Nikon has shipped over 40,000 Z9 so far (source DPReview LS). At least some 11,000 of these have been delivered in EEC/UK and far far far more to the US/Canada.

I also have 400/2.8TC, 800/6.3 and all the other Z-mount lenses I want and so also do the folk I shoot with.

Abysmal -- I think not -- perhaps YOU should reset your expectations and willingness to jump on the band wagon

Certainly here in OZ Andrew and pertaining to the 2 long Z primes, Nikon's record with just a few (meaning 2 or 3) sold in total for the whole country, is ABYSMAL, my over 5 month wait for the Z400 TC can attest to that. The Z9's have at least been coming in at a slow steady trickle........but still a trickle nonetheless.

 

[fcotterill]

There are many threads in dpr forum. This pair early 2021 - followup thread - includes some informative posts (despite the armwaving and noise) largely thanks to the expert knowledge of Professor Bob, a semi-retired academic in UK computer science.
I think it was one of Thom Hogan's essays where he emphasized the cross linking across Japanese industries. Patents, reciprocal supplies of products (eg Nikon's many different kinds of optical glass). Apparently, these relationships extend beyond the hierarchical structure of each Keiretsu (Nikon was a member of the Mitsubishi Keiretsu, although its corporate relationships have changed in recent years.

A Historical Perspective on the Japanese Keiretsu | Review of Banking & Financial Law

www.bu.edu

What can be said in general terms is the talk is Nikon is expanding and hence revisiting relationships etc with its distribution networks for product releases going forward ....

Thank you for your insightful response, its a very helpful and appreciated explanation.
I will look up the links you kindly provided.

I just did some research about the sensitivity talking about sensors and who makes them for who, its all very silly and immature i felt.

I would think it makes sense to pool industry common components into one manufacturing facility to achieve optimum economic scale of efficiencies.

I mean the camera Industry has for decades used Copal to make their shutter assemblies, that's business and makes sense.


Cant wait to hear about the Nikon Announcement in August......

What could it be ?

Will it be about a Z8 ?, new Chine Lens range ?, Nikon to introduce the Z8 as a Medium format crop sensor camera ? may very well deliver great ISO performance ?

A Merger or acquisition ?, Plenty of Money in the bank now ! to buy or be bought LOL ? the forward books are looking attractive.

L mount alliance ?

New patient rights ?

I am going crazy with excitement !

Its almost as thrilling as "The Bold and the Beautiful"...cant wait to hear, whatever it is, LOL.

Have a great day...............

Only an opinion

 

[O]

Certainly here in OZ Andrew and pertaining to the 2 long Z primes, Nikon's record with just a few (meaning 2 or 3) sold in total for the whole country, is ABYSMAL, my over 5 month wait for the Z400 TC can attest to that. The Z9's have at least been coming in at a slow steady trickle........but still a trickle nonetheless.

I tend to agree with you that in some cases Nikon here is OZ for what ever reason has been a little of the mark in having their orders full filled by Japan's allocation system.

NPS member's get their orders in promptly and getting some things through and that makes sense as that's profitable for Nikon rather than giving margins away to dealers or box shifters initially on limited supply items, a bit like Apple at times here in OZ.

The 100-400 has been coming through, the Z800 i don't know about other than some mates have been waiting, the Z9 cameras of late have improved and been coming in slowly better than before as long as you have your order in ahead of time for the next batch delivery allocation, this timing in placing the order makes a world of difference when you may get something.

I mean a few months back it was so difficult to get battery's, Adapters, Z9 units, certain lenses.

I think waiting 5 months is off, there has to be an explanation.

I mean if the orders need to be in by a certain date and you miss the close by a few days you need to wait for the next cycle which could be another 3 months, ie: miss the first cycle close date it could put you out by up to 6 months.

Lately the Z9 has gone from 3 month cycles to 8 week cycles etc, i am only going on what i am being told by other colleagues and NPS member's.

Its in the parts area that there are some really challenging issues, my mates in the USA are getting motors for their 300 2.8 lens, i am now into 3 months, i have been getting dydnamic rolling delivery dates that keep getting pushed back and back, this also tells me that stock is being allocated elsewhere first.

Only an opinion

 

[dabhand16]

I would think it makes sense to pool industry common components into one manufacturing facility to achieve optimum economic scale of efficiencies.

Then you would not get the distinctive images that characterise different makes. For instance, Fuji make cameras with Bayer and X-Trans sensors that are completely different to those made by other manufacturers. and give different results.

It is like saying rather than all of these artists all over the world painting pictures, lets just have one so all paintings will be equally priced and look the same.

 

[O]

There are many threads in dpr forum. This pair early 2021 includes some informative posts (despite the armwaving and noise) largely thanks to the expert knowledge of Professor Bob, a semi-retired academic in UK computer science.
I think it was one of Thom Hogan's essays where he emphasized the cross linking across Japanese industries. Patents, reciprocal supplies of products (eg Nikon's many different kinds of optical glass). Apparently, these relationships extend beyond the hierarchical structure of each Keiretsu (Nikon is a member of the Mitsubishi Keiretsu).

A Historical Perspective on the Japanese Keiretsu | Review of Banking & Financial Law

www.bu.edu

What can be said in general terms is the talk is Nikon is expanding and hence revisiting relationships etc with its distribution networks for product releases going forward ....

WOW, i understand the Japanese way, its very interesting and powerful, doing business with Japanese companies is very good and often privileged.

 

[Nimi]

Then you would not get the distinctive images that characterise different makes. For instance, Fuji make cameras with Bayer and X-Trans sensors that are completely different to those made by other manufacturers. and give different results.

It is like saying rather than all of these artists all over the world painting pictures, lets just have one so all paintings will be equally priced and look the same.

Fuji sensors are also made by Sony. The sensor is just one piece of what makes a RAW image camera-unique.

 

[fcotterill]

As in the case of the D850 sensor, besides its Sony IMX-309-AQJ "silicon-core" a sensor has its dedicated microlenses. Complex assemblage with multiple inputs testifying to the long and costly R&D. The Z7 and Z7 II are built on the similar Sony IMX-309-BQJ

List of all Nikon DSLR cameras and their sensor manufacturer/designer - Nikon Rumors

A reader linked in the comments (thanks El Aura) to this dpreview thread that contains a list of all Nikon DSLR cameras and the corresponding sensor manufacturer/designer. I always wanted to create such list for reference, so here it is – feel free to post in the comments section if any of the...

nikonrumors.com

The posts by bobn2 explain some of what is entailed between the companies designing their cameras and fabs etc

Upcoming Nikon Z9 Sensor by TowerJazz (now Semiconductor)??: Nikon Z Mirrorless Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.

www.dpreview.com

 

[dabhand16]

Fuji sensors are also made by Sony. The sensor is just one piece of what makes a RAW image camera-unique.

But the designs are completely different to other sensors. Yes - there are other factors involved but they are based of the sensor design and how they read-out and other factors too.

It would not be progress to have all sensors made to an identical design as the supporting tecnology would then also be the same or similar.

 

[Anjin San]

you can share with us. We won't tell.....honest ....

Well…Thom says it's lenses from what he is hearing and that there are some FCC filings that would have to have been done already to approve various BT or wifi capabilities and that none of those have been seen to date. Just like new model phones or laptops or whatever…while names and such are commonly omitted from these FCC fillings they do exist and are generally seen 4-8 weeks before introduction by the manufacturer…so the lack of such filings probably portends against a new body this month. We'll see in 12 days I guess…but while some folk don't like his opinions he has been following the industry a long time, knows a lot of people, and looks at various sources before coming out with what he thinks might happen. Given that he's pooh poohing a body this month and his admittance that he knows more but isn't going to violate NDAs…his predictions have a whole lot more weight than rumor sites.

 

[Nimi]

But the designs are completely different to other sensors. Yes - there are other factors involved but they are based of the sensor design and how they read-out and other factors too.

It would not be progress to have all sensors made to an identical design as the supporting tecnology would then also be the same or similar.

Only the X-Trans. The rest are off-the-shelf.

 

[O]

Well…Thom says it's lenses from what he is hearing and that there are some FCC filings that would have to have been done already to approve various BT or wifi capabilities and that none of those have been seen to date. Just like new model phones or laptops or whatever…while names and such are commonly omitted from these FCC fillings they do exist and are generally seen 4-8 weeks before introduction by the manufacturer…so the lack of such filings probably portends against a new body this month. We'll see in 12 days I guess…but while some folk don't like his opinions he has been following the industry a long time, knows a lot of people, and looks at various sources before coming out with what he thinks might happen. Given that he's pooh poohing a body this month and his admittance that he knows more but isn't going to violate NDAs…his predictions have a whole lot more weight than rumor sites.

My experience with Thom is he has for me always been nice and easy to talk to and on the money, when it comes to me making a real commitment or change and i seek validation or advice his technical knowledge and experience has been of great help, above all proven to be most reliable with his information, not just about specs and tech stuff, he has related things often to or about photography and skill sets being more important and he tells me straight if i am having a dose of GAS disease.

He has always answered me openly and honestly above all in hind site its been very accurate.

Also he is a very nice person to talk with, a no nonsense guy, So yes i vote for him as President in the next election.

The only other person who is super nice very smart and above all also incredibly helpful with real world coal face experience is Steve.
Both have talents to the extreme in different areas that for me make a whole answer and direction that is reliable in the sea of information out there.

Everyone else falls 3rd and there after............LOL

Only an Opinion

 

[O]

Then you would not get the distinctive images that characterise different makes. For instance, Fuji make cameras with Bayer and X-Trans sensors that are completely different to those made by other manufacturers. and give different results.

It is like saying rather than all of these artists all over the world painting pictures, lets just have one so all paintings will be equally priced and look the same.

I am Sorry for the confusion caused, i mean they can all have sensors made in the one location by one company but add their own signature or specs in design, its a bit like a Pharmaceutical lab that makes so may drugs for different customers you can have a) a clone or generic product that is the labs own design, or b) specifically made to the customers design/specs and branding.

It makes sense to have a sensor production run 3 shifts 24/7 that provides maximum overhead recovery and cost savings resulting in the lowest cost of goods being made as well as enhancing raw material buying power as well as help meet the utilization of AI robotic production, Rather than have each company have a small sometimes production run on a 1 shift basis with heavy manual labor costs.

A lot of this is happening in the Auto industry, i was told the Renault 1.6 ltr small vans are sold to Mitsubishi who just put the Mitsubishi badge on the front with the odd decal as a smallpoint of difference, its cheaper to do that for them than make a separate manufacturing line, it also adds more volume production for Renault resulting in lower cost and better profits all round for both companies.

The Siri Tripods i have, when you look at them they seem to be like or possibly the same as a Chinese generic model tripod made under different names or colors globally.

Its a practice that has been going on for years but now becoming more main stream and more important as competition and cost pressures mount when margins are more critical in order to survive or grow.

MTD Lawn Mower gear, all made in China/Asia, with brand names like Craftsman, Husquvana, Rover, Victa and the list is endless, each company has their own brand attached with the odd different item or colour to create a point of difference.

Same with senors i assume ?, semi conductors ?, Chips ?, Laptops ?, some mobile devices ? etc

You can make your own phone, your order a generic case, a Qualcomm generic processor and generic screen, add some colour add a fancy name, buy under license some operation software like Android etc and away you go, market it with a good brand name and your off, your a phone manufacturer and distributor.

Some Cars are the same, your order a Chinese clone car, slap a badge on the front make it look a little different here and there with some really great colours and bingo, a new product is yours.

Camera sensors Chips are all the same essentially but have some specific specs designs that can make them a little unique or different as is the case with all the mentioned above..


Only an opinion

 

[Anjin San]

My experience with Thom is he has for me always been nice and easy to talk to and on the money, when it comes to me making a real commitment or change and i seek validation or advice his technical knowledge and experience has been of great help, above all proven to be most reliable with his information, not just about specs and tech stuff, he has related things often to or about photography and skill sets being more important and he tells me straight if i am having a dose of GAS disease.

The only other person who is super nice very smart and above all also incredibly helpful with real world coal face experience is Steve.
Both have talents to the extreme in different areas that for me make a whole answer and direction that is reliable in the sea of information out there.

Yeah…my thoughts about him are the same…Steve, Thom, and Hudson Henry are my three go to people for telling it like it is, and they all have differing specialties that together make a real good combination to ask for guidance. All three are nice guys besides, answer whatever you ask them, and talk about things using actual experiences.

 

[O]

Yeah…my thoughts about him are the same…Steve, Thom, and Hudson Henry are my three go to people for telling it like it is, and they all have differing specialties that together make a real good combination to ask for guidance. All three are nice guys besides, answer whatever you ask them, and talk about things using actual experiences.

I am a coalface hands on believer not whats trending or marketed, i have over time
learnt to do nothing but mistrust manufacturers and their claims, sadly but for good reason.
Touch feel see is all that matters....Thom and Steve are pretty good for all my needs for reasons mentioned.
Look listen learn, if in doubt rent first.

I don't do or follow social media period, that's me and let me tell you i don't miss much LOL

I do enjoy Jarrod Polan I shoot raw, i respect him highly for who he is and what HE does, he is no Thom and he openly says that's not where he is targeted as its extremely well covered.

He has a million followers and is making a lot of money working hard on the new and younger generation using every modern media tool at his disposal, very clever good on him , he works very very hard.

But yes if you want a quick fast snap shot headliners of whats happening in the Camera world of news he is excellent and very much fun, i always listen to him and have a great laugh at the inserted comedy LOL.

Frankly i cant think of things where he has ever been wrong and he has raised on many occasion the same general faults issues pluses as defined in greater detail by others, so yes he is a lot great value and see why he has so many followers LOL.
He knows his market.
But when it comes to the cash splash its Steve or Thom's detail that counts,

 

[Anjin San]

I do enjoy Jarrod Polan I shoot raw, i respect him highly for who he is and what HE does, he is no Thom and he openly says that's not where he is targeted as its extremely well covered.

He knows his market.
But when it comes to the cash splash its Steve or Thom's detail that counts,

Amen to that…although I can only take Jarrod in small doses…he’s a little too slick and over the top for my taste, but if I ignore the hype and concentrate on the content he is usually pretty on the money technically. But the others I mentioned are much more my style of shooting and watching.

 

[O]

Amen to that…although I can only take Jarrod in small doses…he’s a little too slick and over the top for my taste, but if I ignore the hype and concentrate on the content he is usually pretty on the money technically. But the others I mentioned are much more my style of shooting and watching.

Yes totally, i like it that Jarrod is hand in glove or just says what he thinks, "the Sony Money truck is backing up " LOL

He is a on point operator with massive following so his site channel is booming with sponsorships.
He is estimated to worth 10 million form what he is doing, he works super hard, has a good bunch of clever mates working with him.
He is into the younger generation in a very modern way, the world has really changed popularity is currency, simple as that.
But above all he loves what he is doing..............Go Jarrod.
Only an opinion

 

[BlackRockArt]

Why that lens combo…I’m curious? Not a Sony guy but to my eye there’s too much focal length overlap for those to be my first 2 lenses. Given the stable of available lenses…I would think that getting more F/L coverage would have been a better first buy…especially with Steve’s reported good perf with the RCs on Sony...but I’m always interested in why people do what they do.

The 140GM & 260G are very different lens, 140GM is used for landscape, semi-macro, indoor performance; 260G is used more for wild life & nature photography. Although there are focal length overlapse, the design is very different & for different applications.

Oliver

 

[Steve W]

With the current chip shortage, you’re all doing well to get what you’ve got. You can have you Z8 or whatever it might be but it might be at the expense of things like the Z9.