Nikon z9 vs Sony A1---Which one

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wolfphotography721

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Hi All, I want to heavily invest in either the Sony A1 or Nikon Z9, I really do not shoot video so I do not care about that part as much. I want a camera that can do all. I shoot a lot of Raw files, please be open minded if you are a Sony or Nikon shooter., or would switch etc . Thank you all
 
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Both are excellent 'do it all' cameras. The lens ecosystem and how it feels in your hand may be the deciding factors.

How soon do you want it? The waiting period for the a1 is measured in days, the Z9 is expected to ship to the first on the (very long) waiting lists by mid-December.
 
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I am a Nikon shooter with D 500 & D 850 & two 500 PF lenses.After waiting for 2 years for Nikon to produce a good mirrroless camera for wild life i ordered an A1 & 200-600 lens.I am happy i bought it (got it just 2 days back) & i had no difficulty in setting it up in one day after watching Marl smiths video.It is an impressive camera & the eye AF & other features are very impressive.I had wanted a lighter camera & hence my choice was A1
The only bad part is that the CFExpress cards used in Sony A1 are pretty expensive
Frankly as of now the only difference between A1 & Z9 is the price & availability(though A1 has been tested well & passed the test )
I am sure Sony will drop price of A1 very soon .Hence wait for a month & take the call
 
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Based on the multiple reviews that I have seen, it seems that the pre production Nikon Z9 AF is almost as good as A1 & will likely get better with firmware updates. When it comes to a few other specs, Z9 is slightly better than A1, IMO.

The only drawback that I see of Z9 is the AA filter which the A1 does not have. However, a sharp prime lens can negate the softness arising out of an AA filter.

I don't think anyone can go wrong with either A1 or Z9 for stills, as both are excellent cameras.

So it will come down to lenses. As I am sure you know, the body is no good without good lenses.

F mount Nikon glass is more affordable & there are more options & opportunities to buy used F mount Nikon glass.

>>>>>>>>>>
EDIT - Ricci says Z9 has no AA filter. But it has an additional fluorine filter on top of the sensor for protection against dust. Will that affect sharpness? No clue. Maybe not, idk.
 
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If already a Nikon shooter, i would go straight ahead and order the Z9, but if not, I think it's just too early to decide which way to go, so i would wait six months to see what Steve and other reviewers find, and then make an educated decision. I switched from a Nikon D850 to a Canon R5 and have enjoyed it, but as a wildlife photographer, find the rolling shutter at high speeds a real issue, especially as i shoot constantly at those higher speeds... 1/4000 etc. I tried a Sony a1 , and whilst amazing, missed the more solid feel of the Nikon and Canon systems and actually found the af harder to use than the Canon R5....I also worried about its durability, shooting in bad weather ... it just did not feel as rugged.

I have been sad to see Nikon seemingly decline during the mirrorless transition, for me not producing cameras that compare to the other brands especially in terms of shutter speeds and AF. The Z9 could well be Nikons return and i may feel happy with one again, much as i did with the D850 untill auto focus technology moved on. For my work which is fast moving action, af performance and fps makes a big difference. If all the companies were on a level, i would actually rather return to Nikon, especially if they develop some more wildlife lenses such as a 600mm pf and 200-600 in the near future.

Image below taken on R5 with RF100-500 lens. Shutter speed 1/4000 f7.1 -(Manual mode auto iso)

Robin enjoying the Snow 2.jpg
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The reality is a large number of people who need a pro body also need video. The good news is there is a lot great opportunity to leverage technology both ways. 8k video accompanies a large still file. 8k with high frame rates requires a fast processor and fast write speed - both of which support a high frame rate and a buffer that clears quickly.

If you are in a hurry, I'd place your order for a Z9 right away - and you can always defer delivery. An order placed today through a local shop might take 3-4 months, while through a big shop the backlog could be longer. I heard a comment from a friend that their medium sized shop on the west coast had 45 Z9 orders in just the first two hours.

The specs and the Ambassador demos were pretty remarkable. There is a lot of new capability. Probably a tougher assessment is understanding how to use that technology for a given situation. For example, 120 fps with an 11 MB JPEG output is not something you need frequently - but it's also something you probably should need some of the time. The difference between JPEG and RAW is narrowing - and requiring a bit more thoughtful choice. We're largely still operating with the same approach we had 10-15 years ago when a RAW file was needed to overcome the uncertain SOOC images. Video has changed that game, and the cameras can deliver SOOC images that need minor edits or color grading, but are largely ready to publish.
 
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ivor said:
I think its just too early to decide which way to go, so i would wait six months.....see what Steve and other reviewers find, and then make a decision. I switched from a D850 to a Canon R5, and have enjoyed it, but as a wildlife photographer, find the rolling shutter at high speeds an issue, and i shoot constantly at those higher speeds...1/4000 etc. I also tried the Sony a1 , and whilst amazing, missed the more solid feel of the Nikon and Canon systems....I worried about shooting in bad weather with the Sony... it did not feel as rugged.

I have been sad to see Nikon seemingly decline and not produce a mirrorless camera to compare to the other brands mainly in terms of shutter speeds and AF....maybe the Z9 is the return and i will feel happy with one again, much as i did with the D850 untill auto focus technology moved on. For my work which is fast moving action, af performance and fps makes a big difference.....If all the companies are on a level......i think i would rather be with Nikon, the company whos cameras i started with, especially if they develop a nice 600mm pf and 200-600 in the near future.View attachment 26672
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Nice pic. Was this shot on R5 or A1. And the lens. EXIF details please.
 
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wolfphotography721 said:
Hi All, I want to heavily invest in either the Sony A1 or Nikon Z9, I really do not shoot video so I do not care about that part as much. I want a camera that can do all. I shoot a lot of Raw files, please be open minded if you are a Sony or Nikon shooter., or would switch etc . Thank you all
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Neither camera is going to hold you back so it comes down to ecosystem (lenses) and ergonomics (weight, feel in hand etc). I had been shooting Nikon (D500, Z6, 500PF and a bunch of other lenses) and bought into Sony (A9 II and 200-600 then an A1) and after the Z9 rumors I decided to go all in on Sony. Not because I thought the Nikon would be inferior but because I didn't want a gripped body (been there and done that) and I really wanted 600mm instead of 500mm (even though I love the 500PF). I had plans on getting a 600mm f/4 and at the time I liked the Sony offering better then the Nikon F mount.

None of my decisions were based on image quality or what camera body would get more keepers etc because both will do the job (better then the person behind the camera). It really came down to other factors so you'll have to decide what's important for you.

Honestly I really wish I could combine the two offerings because there are things I love about both systems. Although full disclaimer I kept my Z50 and 16-50 so I'm not completely out of the Nikon game :)
 
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sid_19911991 said:
Nice pic. Was this shot on R5 or A1. And the lens. EXIF details please.
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Hi Sid, this image was shot on the R5 with their RF100-500 lens. Shutter speed 1/4000 f7.1. I use auto iso, and to be honest no longer worry particularly about how high that is.... I find the modern cameras together with software enable me to process high iso images just fine.....
 
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I'm a Nikon shooter who hasn't gone to mirrorless yet and am struggling with the same decision. I've been waiting for Nikon to release something in mirrorless that is technically acceptable for what I shoot(almost all wildlife and a lot of BIF) and fully compatible with my existing lenses. Now they've done that. But...

Regardless of the potentially biased information released thus far on the Z9 there's no reason to think it won't be up to par with the A1 if not superior. Nikon is clearly capable and it's a year newer. And whatever difference there are between the two are such nits as to be irrelevant for all practical purposes. So if you're not already heavily invested in one system or the other considering which overall system fits your needs is the thing to think about. For example if you plan to buy a 600mm lens the overall Sony kit is about 3 lbs lighter than a Z9 with existing Nikon 600mm f4E. Also as others have pointed out the A1 is available now versus likely a few months before the Z9 will be in the hands of mere mortals.

Bottom line is that I don't think this is a decision to base on technical aspects of the kit. It's more about which system fits you/your needs better.
 
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I shoot Canon, Nikon and Sony. I've had R5, have A1. Obviously I haven't shot Z9.

What do you shoot? My opinions are mostly off of birds, BIF and really fast/erratic action...basically the top end AF is what is important to me. The 2nd most important thing to me is customizability of the camera.

As far as AF, A1 beats R5, hands down. Especially against complicated backgrounds for initial subject pick up and for tracking a subject from simple background to complicated background. R5 still loves backgrounds (like 1DX cameras before it) too much. A1/R5 Bird Eye AF (BEAF) is about on par. But again R5 will often have the bird and then jump to a background. However, R5 has a bit more robust recognition database for different birds. Initial Z9 videos show BEAF similar to A1/R5. Maybe not as good for BIF but good for non-flight.

For customization A1 beats R5. Not sure how Z9 will be but the new Gray's Livestream has confirmed all the top end D6 customization options so that is good. However, Z9 lacks a 2nd (or 3rd) back button. You are having to use front buttons or joystick to get 2nd AF-ON or AF mode buttons.
 
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Too early to judge Z9 in great depth without independent field testing and also deep menu dives, but as @arbitrage reports we now know Z9 has at least D6 customization scope....

To repeat, RicciTalks video (link below, also cars and more to follow soon ) and Thom Hogan synopsis are the most reliable reports to date. These give some explanations and context, the EVF included with respect to the dual data streaming of stacked sensor and Expeed7 - " blackout free reproduction at 20 fps, and far brighter than any previous mirrorless camera".

There are already at least 2 myths about supposed -ve Z9 features. The sensor has AA filter - Wrong; RAW buffer too small ie fills up too fast at 20 fps. Incorrect generalization, this depends on CFExpress card used (most are too slow and get too hot, says Riccitalks). Smaller Raw files are flaky - who has tested these? Again listen to this Ricci Chera Video - he's been testing the Z9 prototype(s) for 3 months...

But there's much more to consider than the cost of a camera; it is affording a whole new system. This means meeting costs of new lenses and might demand much eefort and delays etc finding key products, especially at a time when so many products are scarce/backordered.
 
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Maybe take this route if possible? I have an A1+200-600 arriving today. I'm going to test it out for an extended period of time and I'll hang on to my Nikon gear. I haven't touched a Sony mirrorless in a number of years and the last time I did.. I wasn't a fan of the ergonomics of the camera at the time. I'm hoping the A1 will be a better fit in the hand. If I feel this isn't the camera for me... I'll sell it and put in the order for the Z9 and wait... and wait... and wait... LOL I'm not brand loyal, I did stick with Canon for 15 years but they hit a wall and I moved on over to Nikon. I figure it (A1) won't take long for me to determine if I love it or hate it, if I love it... hello Sony. If it doesn't work out, I'll consider my $ loss as a rental fee when I sell it. I don't think I'll take a big hit and it's much cheaper than actually renting it from Lensrentals.com ($700 a week).

That's my plan... maybe this would work for you as well? You get to try the A1... determine if it's right for you... and/or move on to the Z9 and give it a shot?

Just my $.02
Hatch
 
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For me it depends on what you are shooting today. It also depends as if you have lenses that you need/want for what your photograph. It also matters if you can use any of your existing glass with either Nikon or Sony. Also what subjects are you shooting? If it is landscape there isn't an advantage to either of the systems. It is fast action where the differences between the two come into play.

My path has been unique as in I swapped systems and invested in the now and future. I sold my D850's, D500, Z6 and the glass to go with them from 14-24-500PF. I wanted to add a 600F4 to my kit and take my photography to a new level. I had planned on buying a D6 and then the a1 was launched. I decided to buy the a1 along with the 200-600 to test out Sony before I further invested in Nikon. I was so impressed I bought a macro and then after that amazing experience I decided to move to Sony and began the migration.

The af capabilities along with mirrorless advantages led me to Sony as being the best choice. Nikon by this point had announced the Z9 with no details but I still moved to Sony with no regrets. Part of this was around the 600. I didn't want to buy an F mount and be stuck with adapters knowing the Z mount is the future. Sony had the native glass, I could get it now and unlike the Z9 I knew what the a1 could do and knowing Sony will continue to evolve the a1 and other bodies it made sense to make the change. Now had I already had a Nikon 600 I would have sat and waited. I have no regrets and am enjoying my gear now, with Nikon it will likely be awhile before most can get their hands on a Z9, who knows when the 600 will be released let alone available. I saw this as years from now vs Sony I can have it now. By the time the Nikon gear is out I suspect there will be a Gen2 or Gen3 a1 in the market.

There isn't a right or wrong answer as to what you use. It really comes down to your finances, your commitment to a system and which one works best for you now and tomorrow. For me it was clearly Sony.
 
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Ricci's Z-9 video is quite good. A couple of points we had guessed were confirmed.

In his testing, only the ProGrade Cobalt and Delkin Black CFExpress cards achieved the peak speeds for 20+ fps shooting and 8k video. If you are using any other card, you probably will want to add one or the other of these cards for a Z9. He did not mention it, but be sure your reader is a fast reader with a fast cable. These new cards are faster and do not overheat. Other cards did have issues with overheating.

The current FTZ adapter will mount, but there is not enough room for your fingers to use the vertical grip because of the tripod mount on the FTZ. The new FTZ moves the mount and the motor it contains to the FTZ barrel, and solves that problem. Z9 owners will want to use the new FTZii.

RAW file options are all 14 bit - no 12 bit. 14 bit options are lossless compressed, high efficiency * (which is near the same as lossless), and high efficiency (which is similar to 12 bit compressed). It sounds like there is minimal penalty with high efficiency * if you are shooting at high frame rates.

The EVF is 3 times brighter but the same resolution. That's probably a good tradeoff - especially with the fast readout. I find EVF brightness is much more important than resolution because I can zoom through the EVF as needed. Nikon RAW files have a 100% embedded JPEG so magnification is very effective.

As Ricci went through the AF mode screens, there are a number of new AF-Area options including 3 Dynamic modes and 3D mode. Subject recognition includes selectable options for people, vehicles, and animals or an Auto mode. Ricci tested the subject with a large number of animals at the zoo and Eye AF worked well for most of them. I expect low contrast dark eyes without a defined iris will present the most common challenges. It will be subject specific for animals. For example, the Canon R5/6 focused on turtle eyes but not snake eyes at a captive reptile shoot I ran several months ago. The AI for focus is evolving.

By the way, in the Nikon US panel discussion, Mark Cruz said with a very fast CFExpress card (like Prograde Cobalt or Delkin Black) He fired off a 20 fps RAW 14 bit lossless burst for over 15 seconds and the buffer never filled. So a 20 frame buffer is really for situations where you are using Backup mode or a slow card.
 
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Either are excellent solutions. One may work better for you, but only you can determine that by working with both systems for a while. If you have an investment in either Nikon or Sony glass, that may be a key factor
 
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EricBowles said:
As Ricci went through the AF mode screens, there are a number of new AF-Area options including 3 Dynamic modes and 3D mode. Subject recognition includes selectable options for people, vehicles, and animals or an Auto mode. Ricci tested the subject with a large number of animals at the zoo and Eye AF worked well for most of them. I expect low contrast dark eyes without a defined iris will present the most common challenges. It will be subject specific for animals. For example, the Canon R5/6 focused on turtle eyes but not snake eyes at a captive reptile shoot I ran several months ago. The AI for focus is evolving.
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A1 had no problem in tracking the eyes of this black puppy today though i was shooting against light & it was very cloudy too
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Venkatesh VT said:
A1 had no problem in tracking the eyes of this black puppy today though i was shooting against light & it was very cloudy tooView attachment 26683
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Dogs are usually pretty easy with any camera - I was getting 100% with my Z6. Dark snakes with a dark eye were tough for the Canon R5/6. This kind of thing is animal and subject specific. It might work perfectly for one animal but with different coloring, hair length, or eye coloring, you have something different.

I'm hearing the Z9 was finding the side of the eye with a silhouette on Joe McNally's shoot. He said he did not miss a frame out of the entire shoot.
 
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wolfphotography721 said:
Hi All, I want to heavily invest in either the Sony A1 or Nikon Z9, I really do not shoot video so I do not care about that part as much. I want a camera that can do all. I shoot a lot of Raw files, please be open minded if you are a Sony or Nikon shooter., or would switch etc . Thank you all
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Do you have a camera now?

If yes, then maybe wait till we get past the Z9 previews.

If no, then I'd seriously consider a Sony or Canon as a great camera in hand now is better than the potential of a great camera many months down the road.
 
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One of the things that keeps amazing me, like in the picture below, is not that the A1 finds the eye - it's the fact that my AF mode was Zone - which means that the camera was looking in an area that represented probably half of the sensor area for an eye, found it amongst this busy background and never let go of it despite all those distracting seeds and branches it could have latched on instead.

Just to be clear, I would normally use the small flex spot and put it on the eye to get started and tell the camera where to look - in this series of shots (and I have hundreds in focus), I just wanted to see how far I could challenge the AI so I did not give the camera any hint.
The first time I pressed AF-on, the camera did not find the eye (latched on the beak) but the second time it nailed it and once it found it, it was like glue and the weirdest thing is that it didn't lose the eye when the bird turned to look the other way.

I am sure the Z9 will do the same, if not on the first release, through updates. The computational capabilities in those newer bodies are insane. And again, that's worse case scenario - normally if I put the small spot on the eye the detection is near instantaneous (even before I hit AF-on)



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To answer the initial post - I don't know that anybody needs to choose between A1 or Z9 - I think one needs to choose between being in a Sony system or a Nikon system. The factors to consider being cost, already owned lenses, lens roadmap and timeline, 3rd party lenses, ergonomics, weight, color science etc...
My only caveat is that there are a handful of things about the Z9 that just need to be clarified. Making sure the lossy compression is useable without major artifacts and clarifying the buffer sizes when using a fast card being two key ones I would say (but I can't imagine Nikon would mess those 2 up after getting so many other things right).

If I had to choose today, without having already made the jump to Sony, Nikon made it almost impossible to switch anymore - which I am sure was their goal and they hit it square on the head (assuming you can spare the next 6 months waiting of course).

But now that I have switched and the financial pain is behind me... the Z9 doesn't show me enough for me to rush back to Nikon. I don't use 30fps but if I need, I can get it in Raw which the Z9 cannot. Even with the grip, he A1 is much lighter and I can take the grip off for half the weight compared to the Z9. And Nikon missed the boat by not having more customizable AF-on buttons in the back or a control wheel, and as importantly, I really love that 200-600 more and more while the 600 f:4GM is a dream lens (and Nikon has nothing like either of those available today) - all things that are not enough of an incentive to decide to spend more on an A1 over a Z9 if you have Nikon glass but that are enough for making the appeal of going back to Nikon very limited.
 
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