I may eventually do something along those lines once I get more comfortable and familiar with the cameras.
Opinion of the Sony alpha 1 from a lifelong Nikon shooter
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I switched from Canon to Nikon and the learning curve was very managable. When I tried Sony, granted it was an A7R II, it was totally lost.
Sign me up Or at least hold a space for me.
Will do
At this point, I'm already pretty comfortable with the cameras, but there are lots of little nuances to still explore and experiment with before I can put out any kind of material.
The challenge may be that a number of people want to evaluate the camera but don't own it yet. Perhaps Sony would provider loaners or rentals once they hear what you are doing. Or they may steal this idea and do it themself.Will do
At this point, I'm already pretty comfortable with the cameras, but there are lots of little nuances to still explore and experiment with before I can put out any kind of material.
Demodave
Active member
Mark Galer and Mark Smith both have excellent videos on the A1, A9, and A9II. I've watched both and have come up with my own personal settings. Still adding and subtracting custom options as you can make the camera fit your own usage.
Patiently waiting for Steve to publish what works for him!
Patiently waiting for Steve to publish what works for him!
There are some wonderful YouTube channels that shorten the learning curve. I never read the owners manual.
Also check out Patrick Murphy-Racey on YouTube. I’ve watched the others but I’ve learned more from PMR.
Not sure who you are asking but for me not likely. Nikon would have to blow the a1 out of the water which isn’t likely happening with the Z9. I suspect Steve would as that’s perfect of his business.
My interest in a training course is to help be evaluate if the camera is for me. Training videos are great if you already have the camera and can plan with it.
Maljo
Well-known member
I am waiting, hoping the Z9 is at least as good as the R5,R3,A1. If not I will migrate also.
Mommacat
Active member
Thank you Steve, SLNS, and everyone for your responses! I've been culling through thousands of images still trying to determine how I should proceed. I guess I was hoping to have a more clear decision/revelation about this like I did with the D500 (my first "real" camera). On the first day I took out the D500 rental, I was in love. I'm just not getting that same feeling with the A1 and I do understand I'm outnumbered here. Also, I'm having to balance the whole cost issue. I know you only live once, you can't take your money with you, but it's just not that simple for me. I have to be careful and know that if I do spend that kind of money, I'm going to need to live with that decision for years. Just stating my situation and please know I also understand for folks who feel differently, I'm happy for them and a bit envious.
Steve, as always, your images are gorgeous (even at those high ISOs
). And thank you for sharing specifics about which AF modes you used. I wish more folks would do that. I also like your approach of using the "appropriate" AF mode and if Eye AF kicks in great, but if it doesn't hopefully you'll still get the shot.
My personal hit rate with Zone in low contrast situations was similar to Wide so in the end in non-low contrast BIF situations (e.g. Purple Martins flying around in a clear sky), I used Wide over Zone. Unfortunately, with low contrast BIF situations (e.g. raptors flying in front of busy backgrounds or skimming above water), neither Wide nor Zone worked as well as the D500's Group in both acquisition and staying locked on. For songbirds, I personally found I had to use Tracking Small/Large and in the end would likely need to use that for large birds in low contrast situations. For me having to use Tracking Small/Large is very similar to the D500's Group AF mode, so ... that's a lot of money for what seems like similar tech or "magic" as some call it (excluding all of the other benefits of the A1/R5 outside of AF). Lastly, I will again say that when the Eye AF kicks in, it is "magic" and I personally found I got more keepers (e.g. simple things like songbirds moving all around while eating at a feeder; much more difficult on my D500).
Note: perhaps I missed it, but in Mark Smith's latest video, he demoed the AF mode he used for BIF on a BAEA, but it would have been helpful if he stated which mode he used.
Reviewing pics - perhaps you're right that somewhere along the line I would get used to reviewing pics via the LCD or EVF, but as I said, I found it almost impossible so not sure I would ever get used to it. For example, even after thinking I had nailed focus in a very difficult situation with Small Spot, because I was unable to review in the field, I found when I looked at the pictures on the computer, I in fact did NOT nail focus. And because I used BBAF, the following pictures were also not tack sharp.
ISO - noisy views -
Thank you all, and Steve, again for listening. I do hope this decision is more clear cut for all of you than it has been for me! What is now also adding to the "angst" is it sounds like the June announcement by Nikon will not be for the Z9 so we will continue in the "vapor" world. Makes you wonder if you should just jump ship, but I was really hoping for that kind of money I would be singing its praises and not longing for a Sony body with my gorgeous Nikon lenses.
Steve, as always, your images are gorgeous (even at those high ISOs
). And thank you for sharing specifics about which AF modes you used. I wish more folks would do that. I also like your approach of using the "appropriate" AF mode and if Eye AF kicks in great, but if it doesn't hopefully you'll still get the shot. My personal hit rate with Zone in low contrast situations was similar to Wide so in the end in non-low contrast BIF situations (e.g. Purple Martins flying around in a clear sky), I used Wide over Zone. Unfortunately, with low contrast BIF situations (e.g. raptors flying in front of busy backgrounds or skimming above water), neither Wide nor Zone worked as well as the D500's Group in both acquisition and staying locked on. For songbirds, I personally found I had to use Tracking Small/Large and in the end would likely need to use that for large birds in low contrast situations. For me having to use Tracking Small/Large is very similar to the D500's Group AF mode, so ... that's a lot of money for what seems like similar tech or "magic" as some call it (excluding all of the other benefits of the A1/R5 outside of AF). Lastly, I will again say that when the Eye AF kicks in, it is "magic" and I personally found I got more keepers (e.g. simple things like songbirds moving all around while eating at a feeder; much more difficult on my D500).
Note: perhaps I missed it, but in Mark Smith's latest video, he demoed the AF mode he used for BIF on a BAEA, but it would have been helpful if he stated which mode he used.
Reviewing pics - perhaps you're right that somewhere along the line I would get used to reviewing pics via the LCD or EVF, but as I said, I found it almost impossible so not sure I would ever get used to it. For example, even after thinking I had nailed focus in a very difficult situation with Small Spot, because I was unable to review in the field, I found when I looked at the pictures on the computer, I in fact did NOT nail focus. And because I used BBAF, the following pictures were also not tack sharp.
ISO - noisy views -
- I couldn't afford to rent for 3 weeks, but even after using the A1 rentals with the 1-4/2-6 (with/without the 1.4x) for 9 days in various lighting conditions, I guess I'm still trying to determine if some of my "pains" are due to coming from a 20 mp crop-sensor camera vs 50 mp FF vs. dslr to mirrorless? Note re how long I've used mirrorless or watched youtube or read recommended setup blogs: as I mentioned, I've rented several Sony mirrorless cameras over the past 5 years, usually each for a week and I too have watched many of the youtubers mentioned on this thread. And I've also read and re-read several recommendations about setup for bird photography.
- as far as Topaz DeNoise goes, initially I really liked the results, but I actually found that it softened the images too much for my taste (e.g. lost fine feather detail in flying birds views) even when setting the noise removal very low, so I rarely use it now. I prefer my Nikon files with a bit of noise vs. ones processed with Topaz.
- even after reviewing more of the views, the high ISO flight shots (1600) with minimal cropping, are just not usable. Right at this moment, it seems like the A1 images I took can be beautiful in good lighting, but not so much in poor or bad lighting and for $6,500 I was hoping for better ISO performance out of the camera than my D500 (again, perhaps a 20 mp thing vs 50, I don't know).
Thank you all, and Steve, again for listening. I do hope this decision is more clear cut for all of you than it has been for me! What is now also adding to the "angst" is it sounds like the June announcement by Nikon will not be for the Z9 so we will continue in the "vapor" world. Makes you wonder if you should just jump ship, but I was really hoping for that kind of money I would be singing its praises and not longing for a Sony body with my gorgeous Nikon lenses.
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
I had a similar experience as yours. I use a Nikon D850 and 400 2.8 and i really liked the advantages offered by mirrorless mainly the EVF experience, edge to edge AF points and the AF precision. I rented the Z6/ Z7 and was utterly disappointed with the way those cameras worked for photographing action so i bought an A7R4 and a 200-600 lens and loved the R4 but could never succeed with the combo when it came to photographing moving subjects, mainly BIF. Sony service couldn't do much other than saying everything worked as it should but after so many attempts to learn the sony system, I got to know about the AF inconsistencies with the R4/200-600 Combo and honestly thought Sony would come up with some kind of a firmware update or a physical recall but no luck. I then sold off the R4 and bought a used A9 and this time my experience was better but somehow the tracking AF modes never worked for me as i always felt the AF was not 100% precise (missing focus very slightly) so i ended up using the non tracking modes all the time, which was very close to what i was already doing with my D850. I also didn't like the files from the A9 (R4 was much better though). My original plan was to test the Sony R4 and 200-600 and then eventually move to the 600 f4 GM but quickly realized the grass isn't greener on the other side(Sony/Mirrorless tech in general). Also there weren't great benefits in terms of shifting systems as my D850 in Group AF mode worked amazing for action shots. Maybe the A1 is different but at this point in time i do not have the courage to try another brand. So, I m patiently waiting for the Z9 to come up. Maybe it wont be as good as the A1 but even if it is as good or better than the D850/500, that's all i need.
Thank you Steve, SLNS, and everyone for your responses! I've been culling through thousands of images still trying to determine how I should proceed. I guess I was hoping to have a more clear decision/revelation about this like I did with the D500 (my first "real" camera). On the first day I took out the D500 rental, I was in love. I'm just not getting that same feeling with the A1 and I do understand I'm outnumbered here. Also, I'm having to balance the whole cost issue. I know you only live once, you can't take your money with you, but it's just not that simple for me. I have to be careful and know that if I do spend that kind of money, I'm going to need to live with that decision for years. Just stating my situation and please know I also understand for folks who feel differently, I'm happy for them and a bit envious.
Steve, as always, your images are gorgeous (even at those high ISOs
My personal hit rate with Zone in low contrast situations was similar to Wide so in the end in non-low contrast BIF situations (e.g. Purple Martins flying around in a clear sky), I used Wide over Zone. Unfortunately, with low contrast BIF situations (e.g. raptors flying in front of busy backgrounds or skimming above water), neither Wide nor Zone worked as well as the D500's Group in both acquisition and staying locked on. For songbirds, I personally found I had to use Tracking Small/Large and in the end would likely need to use that for large birds in low contrast situations. For me having to use Tracking Small/Large is very similar to the D500's Group AF mode, so ... that's a lot of money for what seems like similar tech or "magic" as some call it (excluding all of the other benefits of the A1/R5 outside of AF). Lastly, I will again say that when the Eye AF kicks in, it is "magic" and I personally found I got more keepers (e.g. simple things like songbirds moving all around while eating at a feeder; much more difficult on my D500).
Note: perhaps I missed it, but in Mark Smith's latest video, he demoed the AF mode he used for BIF on a BAEA, but it would have been helpful if he stated which mode he used.
Reviewing pics - perhaps you're right that somewhere along the line I would get used to reviewing pics via the LCD or EVF, but as I said, I found it almost impossible so not sure I would ever get used to it. For example, even after thinking I had nailed focus in a very difficult situation with Small Spot, because I was unable to review in the field, I found when I looked at the pictures on the computer, I in fact did NOT nail focus. And because I used BBAF, the following pictures were also not tack sharp.
ISO - noisy views -
Oddly, my favorite Sony camera experience (files and usability) was with the A7riv. Talk about gorgeous files! Unfortunately, you really need good lighting, and so I didn't make the switch then.
- I couldn't afford to rent for 3 weeks, but even after using the A1 rentals with the 1-4/2-6 (with/without the 1.4x) for 9 days in various lighting conditions, I guess I'm still trying to determine if some of my "pains" are due to coming from a 20 mp crop-sensor camera vs 50 mp FF vs. dslr to mirrorless? Note re how long I've used mirrorless or watched youtube or read recommended setup blogs: as I mentioned, I've rented several Sony mirrorless cameras over the past 5 years, usually each for a week and I too have watched many of the youtubers mentioned on this thread. And I've also read and re-read several recommendations about setup for bird photography.
- as far as Topaz DeNoise goes, initially I really liked the results, but I actually found that it softened the images too much for my taste (e.g. lost fine feather detail in flying birds views) even when setting the noise removal very low, so I rarely use it now. I prefer my Nikon files with a bit of noise vs. ones processed with Topaz.
- even after reviewing more of the views, the high ISO flight shots (1600) with minimal cropping, are just not usable. Right at this moment, it seems like the A1 images I took can be beautiful in good lighting, but not so much in poor or bad lighting and for $6,500 I was hoping for better ISO performance out of the camera than my D500 (again, perhaps a 20 mp thing vs 50, I don't know).
Thank you all, and Steve, again for listening. I do hope this decision is more clear cut for all of you than it has been for me! What is now also adding to the "angst" is it sounds like the June announcement by Nikon will not be for the Z9 so we will continue in the "vapor" world. Makes you wonder if you should just jump ship, but I was really hoping for that kind of money I would be singing its praises and not longing for a Sony body with my gorgeous Nikon lenses.
Mommacat
Active member
Thank you, lordofthelight for sharing your experience! I too am just not seeing enough "magic" to spend that kind of money. I know some folks want the "Z9" to be AS GOOD as the A1/R5, but I agree with you, if Nikon can produce a mirrorless that is as good as the D850/D500 or a bit better, I would be thrilled! Perhaps the bird eye AF is better on the R5, but like Steve mentioned for the A1, it's best not to rely on it. And as I found, the Nikon Group AF Mode on D850/D500 is incredible. I remember when folks thought it was "magical" and quite honestly for a lot of the low contrast BIF I do, it still is magical. Also, if it is almost as good, then I can use all of the amazing light-weight top-of-the-line PF glass that produces images that are gorgeous out of the camera.
Problem is like you, I also want/need:
Problem is like you, I also want/need:
- more FPS, EVF, edge to edge AF points, ability to more easily do video, etc.
- better ISO performance than my D500, but I'm not seeing it with the A1.
- silent or at least quieter shooting - I really dislike disturbing the birds, especially little skittish songbirds
- more reach (which is why I purchased the 500mm PF) - don't get me started on how many birders with a camera get waaaay to close and what's worse is when they don't pick up on the clues of a bird letting them know they have gotten too close even when the bird is clearly alarming or even worse leaves eggs/chicks alone in a nest for minutes at a time exposed to damage by predators/sun/heat! Unfortunately, now I have this beautiful lens that I need to decide to keep and continue to hope Nikon will deliver or send it back, so I have that "cash" to jump ship.
I am in the same leaky row boat. Though I am have a dual system, Nikon for non-action and Sony for action.
I jumped ship and went for the A1, get it Tuesday. It was a ghastly hard decision for me because of my two PF lenses. I had a sneaky feeling that even if Nikon's Z9 was all it was supposed to be and actually became available this fall, that it would be months before I would be able to get it given how long I had to wait for the 500PF. I went for a bird in the hand because I do feel the A1 has enough workable features to make it worthwhile. No camera is perfect. That said, I'm keeping my D500, my 300 PF, and 1.4x and 1.7x teleconverters. One has to have a backup camera, right???
I agree with you. I bet you will end up like me and want to move more into the a1 camp once you use it.I jumped ship and went for the A1, get it Tuesday. It was a ghastly hard decision for me because of my two PF lenses. I had a sneaky feeling that even if Nikon's Z9 was all it was supposed to be and actually became available this fall, that it would be months before I would be able to get it given how long I had to wait for the 500PF. I went for a bird in the hand because I do feel the A1 has enough workable features to make it worthwhile. No camera is perfect. That said, I'm keeping my D500, my 300 PF, and 1.4x and 1.7x teleconverters. One has to have a backup camera, right???
are you or will you be 100% Sony? No crumbs of Nikon?
Currently I have Sony and Nikon. If the Sony does well for Astro photography I won’t have any reason to keep the Nikon gear and will switch over to Sony 100%. So far for action and macro I’ve liked the a1 better.
Please keep us informed.
Might be, but pretty devoted to the D500 and 300PF combo and I need to have a backup camera and am about out of $$$$S. LOL
Oh just wait lol
Garfield
Well-known member
I jumped ship and went for the A1, get it Tuesday. It was a ghastly hard decision for me because of my two PF lenses. I had a sneaky feeling that even if Nikon's Z9 was all it was supposed to be and actually became available this fall, that it would be months before I would be able to get it given how long I had to wait for the 500PF. I went for a bird in the hand because I do feel the A1 has enough workable features to make it worthwhile. No camera is perfect. That said, I'm keeping my D500, my 300 PF, and 1.4x and 1.7x teleconverters. One has to have a backup camera, right???
I think you're going to have fun. For me, the a1 has opened doors of opportunity that were only partially open to me when shooting Nikon, though I didn't fully appreciate it at the time. Moving to the a1 has been a truly refreshing experience, more so than I originally thought it would be. That said, I'm not convinced the a1's IQ is quite as good as Nikon D850/Z7 images, but the ability of the a1 to "capture the moment" more easily and in a wider range of challenging situations than any current Nikon camera, and in particular the excellent internal video functionality of the a1, was enough to convince me to jump ship. Selling off the 500PF was hard, but I won't have any problem re-acquiring one down the road once again if it's the right thing to do. It does help not being a "collector"...I find life is simpler keeping only what I use and transferring the stuff I don't use to an owner that appreciates it more.
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This afternoon I packed up the Z7II, 500 PF, FTZ adapter, Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro, a couple of miscellaneous lenses, and other accessories for Nikon to ship to Roberts to sell.I think you're going to have fun. For me, the a1 has opened doors of opportunity that were only partially open to me when shooting Nikon, though I didn't fully appreciate it at the time. Moving to the a1 has been a truly refreshing experience, more so than I originally thought it would be. That said, I'm not convinced the a1's IQ is quite as good as Nikon D850/Z7 images, but the ability of the a1 to "capture the moment" more easily and in a wider range of challenging situations than any current Nikon camera, and in particular the excellent internal video functionality of the a1, was enough to convince me to jump ship. Selling off the 500PF was hard, but I won't have any problem re-acquiring one down the road once again if it's the right thing to do. It does help not being a "collector"...I find life is simpler keeping only what I use and transferring the stuff I don't use to an owner that appreciates it more.
Already have a quote and though it isn't particularly generous, it's better than KEH and it will certainly go toward the Sony A1 and the lenses to go with it. I'm with you, no point in keeping it if you're not gonna use it. Am keeping D500, 300 PF, teleconverters as backup gear. No way am I taking a trip for photography without two cameras. LOL
Wonderful report and images. The image of the red winged blackbird is stunning.
I'm hosting a webinar on Nikonians with Arthur Morris on June 15th. Artie is a former Canon Explorer of Light and just published a book on the R5. He's been using the Sony A1 and raves about it. But it was interesting - he indicated the prior Sony cameras were not at the same level and there was a big difference between the A1 and anything else. He describes the A9ii and A7rIV as "over-promised" compared to the A1.
We're in the midst of a transition to truly new and advanced cameras. The A1 is the first step, but the upcoming Canon R3 and Nikon Z9 will be competitive and push the envelope. I thinks it's not realistic to compare a Z7II, A7rIV, or R5 to a flagship action camera like the A1, R3, or Z9.
It will be interesting over the next few years as we see advances in software and processing across all leading camera manufacturers.
I'm hosting a webinar on Nikonians with Arthur Morris on June 15th. Artie is a former Canon Explorer of Light and just published a book on the R5. He's been using the Sony A1 and raves about it. But it was interesting - he indicated the prior Sony cameras were not at the same level and there was a big difference between the A1 and anything else. He describes the A9ii and A7rIV as "over-promised" compared to the A1.
We're in the midst of a transition to truly new and advanced cameras. The A1 is the first step, but the upcoming Canon R3 and Nikon Z9 will be competitive and push the envelope. I thinks it's not realistic to compare a Z7II, A7rIV, or R5 to a flagship action camera like the A1, R3, or Z9.
It will be interesting over the next few years as we see advances in software and processing across all leading camera manufacturers.