Quoting and advice question

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JoelKlein

JoelKlein

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Hi guys, I can use some help with quoting and executing this job, since I’m not experience in these type of projects.

A developer firm wants outside pictures of all their projects/buildings. Its over 18 different locations but all in the same county.

Photos will be used for big wall prints in their offices.

How do you price it?
What’s needed to get the job done?

I assume it’s not just slapping on a 14-24 on a tripod @f/13 and shoot. Maybe it is? I have never done this for this kind of customer. I want to make the client happy, so I can get more of those AF-S jobs… (I’m planning to trademark ‘AF-S jobs’ lol..)

Do I wait for the sun to be in the perfect position? That would take a month to complete.

Any ideas is appreciated 🙏
 
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Interesting angles and lighting are good…but beyond that the wide angle on a tripod and make sure horizon is straight and maybe a little fixing the parallax in post as well. Can’t help with pricing though.
 
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JoelKlein said:
Hi guys, I can use some help with quoting and executing this job, since I’m not experience in these type of projects.

A developer firm wants outside pictures of all their projects/buildings. Its over 18 different locations but all in the same county.

Photos will be used for big wall prints in their offices.

How do you price it?
What’s needed to get the job done?

I assume it’s not just slapping on a 14-24 on a tripod @f/13 and shoot. Maybe it is? I have never done this for this kind of customer. I want to make the client happy, so I can get more of those AF-S jobs… (I’m planning to trademark ‘AF-S jobs’ lol..)

Do I wait for the sun to be in the perfect position? That would take a month to complete.

Any ideas is appreciated 🙏
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Tilt-shift lens, either Nikon or Canon. Sun in your back. I think Google Earth will give you an approximate shadow depending on date and time of day. You need some shadows to give it depth.
 
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I would price by the hour at a rate that is reasonable plus any travel cost. I guess as for time it depends on their deadline and what kind of pictures do they want? Would they be happy with whatever the weather is for the day or do they want more drama with early or late light, night time, multiple times of day so they have night and perfect light for the property. Will you have to do a lot of editing to get them perfect? All of this adds up to time and travel location cost. If I have to time things based on weather and light this could require multiple days of shooting and the entire project could take months to get all of the timing to work out. So that is a big factor as to how will that impact other projects. Typically I would price my time at $300 an hour plus expenses. At a minimum I would think 6 hours per building. At that rate it would be for internal use, if used for online media or marketing materials I would want an additional flat fee for those rights. Typically a few thousand for all rights for all buildings would be something someone would pay.
 
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Lighting! Discuss with them shots taken in the blue hour ......lights on in the buildings, but still blue sky. Sunrise or sunet, depending on the direction of the buildings. Study architectural images and be a quick learner to learn what kind of images make an impact.

What is their budget?
 
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JoelKlein said:
Hi guys, I can use some help with quoting and executing this job, since I’m not experience in these type of projects.

A developer firm wants outside pictures of all their projects/buildings. Its over 18 different locations but all in the same county.

Photos will be used for big wall prints in their offices.

How do you price it?
What’s needed to get the job done?

I assume it’s not just slapping on a 14-24 on a tripod @f/13 and shoot. Maybe it is? I have never done this for this kind of customer. I want to make the client happy, so I can get more of those AF-S jobs… (I’m planning to trademark ‘AF-S jobs’ lol..)

Do I wait for the sun to be in the perfect position? That would take a month to complete.

Any ideas is appreciated 🙏
Click to expand...
Do you have any idea of what their budget is, or what they paid on past projects? You might be miles apart on expectations, or the sky could be the limit. These days I would expect clients to be more frugal since there is the attitude among a lot of folks that "everyone has a camera, how hard could it be". And do they have a vision of what they want for an end product?

--Ken
 
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JoelKlein said:
Thank you all, good food for thought.
I don’t own a TS lens, and those buildings aren’t above 5-6 stories high.
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In the absence of a TS, be extra cautios to get the camera level. The fix in post requires Adobe to guess what the perspective would have been, and level camera helps tremendously. Especially true for 24mm and wider.
 
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FWIW - Adobe PS/LR Geometry panel allows one to draw lines that should be horizontal or vertical. It tends to be very accurate. When I do architectural photography I sometimes need to use it.
 
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Butlerkid said:
FWIW - Adobe PS/LR Geometry panel allows one to draw lines that should be horizontal or vertical. It tends to be very accurate. When I do architectural photography I sometimes need to use it.
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It works great on the sides, top and bottom, but sometimes distorts or ignors windows and doors. Especially wide.
 
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Nimi said:
It works great on the sides, top and bottom, but sometimes distorts or ignors windows and doors. Especially wide.
Click to expand...

A times I might need to draw a different line if there remains a distinct distortion, but at least IMHE that is only about 1% of time.
 
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I've been in the creative fields my whole career, so I know how difficult it is to put a price tag on the unknown. I can give you a few suggestions that might help:

1) First, I'd have a serious heart-to-heart discussion with the client to determine their level of expectation and how much those expectations are worth to them. Will they be happy with simply good, representative images of their projects, or do they want award-winning, spectacular images with dramatic lighting and a perfect environment? Any nighttime shots? Golden hour? You might gather some examples from online architectural sources to show the client the difference between "good" and "spectacular." Will reshoots be necessary if there is something they don't like, or will they be happy with merely "good?" This is the process I've adopted when designing a logo for a client. I explain that I can give them something really nice, a couple of ideas that are more than adequate, for a reasonable budget. On the other hand, if they want an earth-shaking, incredibly complicated design that must go through several committees, internal "experts" and multiple revisions, and several different approaches, that is a much different budget. If the client is reasonable, they will appreciate your honesty and hopefully give you some realistic guidance.

2) On a big project like this, start by breaking it down into individual components. Let's assume 18 locations. Treat each as a single assignment, including travel time and expenses, difficulties you will encounter, and of course shooting time. Some locations will probably be easier than others. Calculate the total time and expenses for each location based on a reasonable hourly rate, then add them all together.

3) I always give the client a range (i.e., "$2000 to $2500"). Don't lock yourself into a specific dollar amount. I never bill the minimum, and I never bill the maximum unless something unforeseen occurs. The client seems to find this palatable.

4) Before presenting a final estimate range, consider the intangibles strictly from your point of view. How much is it worth to you? How badly do you need the income? What do you think the client can live with? Is the job (and client) going to be fun or a pain in the behind? If I sense that a project will be enjoyable and and the client is reasonable, I can live with a lower figure. For example, maybe a job is worth $5000, but I can live with $4000 to ensure that I get the work. On the other hand, if you think it will turn into a nightmare, price the job higher with a considerable PITA fee included. You might not get the job in that case, but that might not be a bad thing if it avoids undue stress and sleepless nights.

5) Put your estimate, the parameters of the project, and what you will provide in writing and get the client to agree to it and sign it. Not only will that help protect you if the client should decide not to pay, it will avoid unreasonable demands from the client that were not part of the original agreement. Spell out that additional requests or requirements beyond the original agreement will incur additional costs, to be negotiated with the client. In other words, CYA.

6) Those of use in the creative pursuits are notorious for under-pricing our work. Were I not guilty of this, I would have a bigger bank account. Your client, being a developer, will be well aware of how business agreements and contracts work. They would never begin a construction project without all details, estimated costs and disclaimers clearly detailed. Good clients recognize and respect the value of our time and talents. Bad clients assume we are some kind of creative weirdos and we do this all strictly for fun. Make sure you know what kind of client you are dealing with!

Not being an architectural photographer, I will leave the technical advice to the experts. Good luck!
 
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On fee, using my last architectural assignment (2021) as an example, I broke it into three components: on-site which for me was $5,000 per day; post-processing, which was $200/final image; and travel expenses, actual. Other expenses such as assistant and equipment rental were on me. Standard usage contract. Asking around Dallas, daily rate ranges from $2,000 to 10,000.

Interior lights require lighting, no way around that.
 
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DJinVT said:
If you have access, a Drone at 50-100ft could get you some nice angles and long shadows, especially during golden hour.
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I do, Mavic Pro Zoom. With FAA Part 107 commercial license. But I can’t look at the drone picture anymore. The Z30 gives better image quality….
 
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Ideally one would provide a quote for mounted wall prints based on square inches and labor. Selling a $800 wall print is better than selling your time and letting someone else make the profit. This also gets around licensing as ideally your contract with this firm should be limited in terms of duration and usage. A commercial photographer that creates images for use in a corporation's annual report is not happy if the company starts to use it for print ads and a calendar and trade show posters other business purposes.

Important to think of how to be specific about the work product that you are producing and detail it out. Easy to specify that you own the original files and will produce the prints at a price per square inch and based on specified dry mount methods and media.

This is where a 24mm tilt shift lens is worth renting and use it with the appropriate adapter for your camera. This will save you many hours in post processing and help insure you make a profit on you time and equipment used.

Good idea to bring them examples of similar photos created by others to get a good idea what they are looking for as you have no work of your own.
 
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I haven’t done architectural work for any clients so take this with a grain of salt. I would encourage some meetings with the client to understand exactly what they want and then determine if you and your equipment can produce what they are looking for and/or explain to them exactly what you are prepared and capable of delivering. I’ve done work (non photography) for clients and the secret to success is both parties understanding exactly what will be delivered. It can be rewarding both financially and personally but if it goes sour because of some miscommunication it can be a nightmare. Have a solid contract outlining all the details you have discussed with them so there are no misunderstandings later.

Jeff
 
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JoelKlein said:
Hi guys, I can use some help with quoting and executing this job, since I’m not experience in these type of projects.

A developer firm wants outside pictures of all their projects/buildings. Its over 18 different locations but all in the same county.

Photos will be used for big wall prints in their offices.

How do you price it?
What’s needed to get the job done?

I assume it’s not just slapping on a 14-24 on a tripod @f/13 and shoot. Maybe it is? I have never done this for this kind of customer. I want to make the client happy, so I can get more of those AF-S jobs… (I’m planning to trademark ‘AF-S jobs’ lol..)

Do I wait for the sun to be in the perfect position? That would take a month to complete.

Any ideas is appreciated 🙏
Click to expand...
Simple, what i would do,

take the job and sub it out to a real professional in that field, what ever the quote just add a margin, push the contractor down 10% add 15% to the customer, you get 25% while your home watching Bold and the Beautiful LOL.

Outsourcing is very popular but not often spoken about.

I used to do shoots because i loved doing them, but i slowly outsourced everything to the point where i only get out of bed for a shoot if the surfs up LOL

Only an opinion
 
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