Review of your images by a professional photographer - helpful or not?

If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).

Viathelens

Well-known member
Supporting Member
Marketplace
Hi, I received an email about Frans Lanting having some events in the Santa Cruz & Bay Area. He has a new book to market and the cover shot is beautiful. At one event a photographer can have their work reviewed by him. Has anyone done this type of thing and do you really think it helped you to take your photography up a notch?
 
Hi, I received an email about Frans Lanting having some events in the Santa Cruz & Bay Area. He has a new book to market and the cover shot is beautiful. At one event a photographer can have their work reviewed by him. Has anyone done this type of thing and do you really think it helped you to take your photography up a notch?
I've done portfolio reviews and yes I think they can be very helpful. I think it's best to get a few of these from different photographers as perspectives vary and you can learn different things from different folks.

I would caution that I wouldn't take any feed back as gospel truth, just a perspective as beyond obvious errors, everyone's taste and what represents a moving image is different. So even if portfolio feed back isn't an absolute measure of what's good, excellent or perhaps in need of improvement in your photography it can still be helpful to get ideas on what's working, what jumps out as exceptional(and hence what you might try more of) and where you might try new things or where you might avoid certain repeated shortcomings.

IOW, I recommend portfolio reviews from accomplished photographers or photo editors but I'd go in with a thick skin and listen but also listen to your own inner voice if something just doesn't jive with how you like to shoot and how you see the world.

-Dave
 
Everything DRwyoming said.

I tend to favor a real quality editor over a photographer as we each have our own style to some degree.

I find value in someone like Steve for example who would look at an image and consider technique that would make it better. Not all photographers are educators. Many people try to teach but don't really teach. Steve is a rare exception which is why I hang on every word.

I shoot sports as well and that creates revenue so listening to what an editor/client wants is a big deal. You usually don't have to ask, you can tell what they use most often and frankly if they book you again. It is funny the action shots get picked less than the emotional reaction shots. So you focus more on what the client/editor wants and focus more on the key action moment and not just shooting everything that happens.

For wildlife I think this is similar to sports. The key moment, expression, peak of action is always the best image. I can shoot thousands of images in a day but when going through them it is easy to cut that to hundreds and when applying the editor view cut that to less than a dozen. I will cover a game and shoot 200 plus gigs, submit 50 or so images and less than 4 usually make it to social, print, website.

End of the day it doesn't hurt but be prepared for some brutal feedback. I would highly suggest that you pick just 2 or 3 images that you feel are the best in your portfolio. This way your very best work is what you will receive feedback from. None of the B work that you already know is just ok but nothing special. If you feel that is your B work do you already know why? Do you know why you feel the ones you would show are your best? If so you already have a head start on what to change in your photography.

I shot with the owner of Laguna Seca Ranch early this year and Gene told me that he limits his entire LR catalog to 3K images. His opinion is once he gets a better shot he deletes the shot that isn't as good. For one to have a catalog of 3K images that are A+ would be an achievement that not many people could say they have. I sure don't but I also have a lot more than 3K images in my LR catalog. It made me think of my photography and what am I trying to achieve each time I go out. Now I focus for wildlife to get a shot I don't have or to make a better shot than what I have. Steve mentions this several times in different media that don't pass up a subject just because you have that shot already. Is your shot as good as it possibly could be? I know equipment has made me want to revisit specific subjects or locations.
 
Excellent points about having multiple shots that are basically the same. They water down one's portfolio and present a lot of clutter to get through to find the really excellent images hidden among hundreds/thousands of images.

I'm struggling with that right now. I recently photographed the Kentucky State Capitol. The dome is illuminated by lighting that is constantly changing color. I wanted to show the range of colors from light yellow to dark yellow, light pinks, dark rose, greens and blues. But having 5 images of the dome (in different colors) now seems like clutter! LOL!
 
Hi, I received an email about Frans Lanting having some events in the Santa Cruz & Bay Area. He has a new book to market and the cover shot is beautiful. At one event a photographer can have their work reviewed by him. Has anyone done this type of thing and do you really think it helped you to take your photography up a notch?
I almost always find professional portfolio reviews very helpful and informative, especially when done by someone I admire and trust. I invariably learn something from them, and it’s always nice when I get some positive feedback on my images as well. A good friend of mine is a prominent professional nature and wildlife photographer, whose opinion I respect and trust. We don’t always agree 100% of the time, but our relationship is such that we can discuss our different perspectives openly. More than anyone else, he has helped me grow as a nature photographer and naturalist.

I‘ve also had other, less experienced and knowledgeable photographers critique my images, with mixed results. I always go into such sessions with an open mind however, pick out any helpful suggestions, and just ignore the rest. As Dan mentioned above, be sure not to take any constructive criticism personally. A good reviewer usually finds positive things to say about images, as well as offer helpful things to consider. I would think someone of Franz Lanting’s talent and experience would know how to do this, and that a critique from him would be especially helpful.

Good luck!
 
I've done two workshops with Frans Lanting. One was a trip to the Antarctic Peninsula (co-led by his wife, Chris Eckstrom, and Justin Black). I also did an online workshop about developing a personal vision. I've got another trip with Frans scheduled for next year (to Grand Staircase Escalante, co-led by Justin Black). You can learn a lot from Frans.

In some ways, the online workshop was not what I expected. I thought it would focus on editing images, which meant to me working on images with Lightroom, Photoshop or other image editing software. But Frans comes from a publishing background -- publishing his work in National Geographic and other magazines and in his books. So I found in the workshop, that "editing" meant to Frans picking a set of photos to tell a specific story or serve some specific purpose.

I had taken 5,000+ photos of a loon family on a lake in Minnesota following the family over the summer and fall, from the adult loons incubating eggs in their nest, to loon chicks hatching, to parents feeding the loon chicks and so on. I had narrowed the set down to my favorite 500 images or so with captions and title pages. I mentioned this to Frans at the introductory session of the workshop, where we each brought 5 favorite photos to discuss with Frans and the group. Frans (reasonably) said that 500 photos was "too loony" for him and that he would look at the set when I narrowed it down to 35 photos. I learned a lot in that process (where we narrowed it down to 8-10 photos), including photos that I did not have in the set (a good establishing shot, for example, or any photos of predators). It was a valuable experience, both in one-on-one sessions with Frans and also in larger group sessions.

I've also learned from Frans's video course on bird photography. Finally, he is a Shackelton buff and that was very interesting on a trip to the Antarctic Peninsula.

I've done other trips and workshops with other professionals and have always felt I learned something to improve my own photography, although not always what I expected to learn before the trip or workshop.
 
I've done two workshops with Frans Lanting. One was a trip to the Antarctic Peninsula (co-led by his wife, Chris Eckstrom, and Justin Black). I also did an online workshop about developing a personal vision. I've got another trip with Frans scheduled for next year (to Grand Staircase Escalante, co-led by Justin Black). You can learn a lot from Frans.

In some ways, the online workshop was not what I expected. I thought it would focus on editing images, which meant to me working on images with Lightroom, Photoshop or other image editing software. But Frans comes from a publishing background -- publishing his work in National Geographic and other magazines and in his books. So I found in the workshop, that "editing" meant to Frans picking a set of photos to tell a specific story or serve some specific purpose.

I had taken 5,000+ photos of a loon family on a lake in Minnesota following the family over the summer and fall, from the adult loons incubating eggs in their nest, to loon chicks hatching, to parents feeding the loon chicks and so on. I had narrowed the set down to my favorite 500 images or so with captions and title pages. I mentioned this to Frans at the introductory session of the workshop, where we each brought 5 favorite photos to discuss with Frans and the group. Frans (reasonably) said that 500 photos was "too loony" for him and that he would look at the set when I narrowed it down to 35 photos. I learned a lot in that process (where we narrowed it down to 8-10 photos), including photos that I did not have in the set (a good establishing shot, for example, or any photos of predators). It was a valuable experience, both in one-on-one sessions with Frans and also in larger group sessions.

I've also learned from Frans's video course on bird photography. Finally, he is a Shackelton buff and that was very interesting on a trip to the Antarctic Peninsula.

I've done other trips and workshops with other professionals and have always felt I learned something to improve my own photography, although not always what I expected to learn before the trip or workshop.
WOW! First what an awesome subject to follow for a year. That is a huge time commitment! The experience in editing that down to just 8-10 images that tell a story is more education than most people will ever receive in a lifetime. That type of experience is well worth any money he charges.
 
Excellent points about having multiple shots that are basically the same. They water down one's portfolio and present a lot of clutter to get through to find the really excellent images hidden among hundreds/thousands of images.

I'm struggling with that right now. I recently photographed the Kentucky State Capitol. The dome is illuminated by lighting that is constantly changing color. I wanted to show the range of colors from light yellow to dark yellow, light pinks, dark rose, greens and blues. But having 5 images of the dome (in different colors) now seems like clutter! LOL!
Yes, but were they handheld? :ROFLMAO::cool::devilish:
 
I've done portfolio reviews and yes I think they can be very helpful. I think it's best to get a few of these from different photographers as perspectives vary and you can learn different things from different folks.

I would caution that I wouldn't take any feed back as gospel truth, just a perspective as beyond obvious errors, everyone's taste and what represents a moving image is different. So even if portfolio feed back isn't an absolute measure of what's good, excellent or perhaps in need of improvement in your photography it can still be helpful to get ideas on what's working, what jumps out as exceptional(and hence what you might try more of) and where you might try new things or where you might avoid certain repeated shortcomings.

IOW, I recommend portfolio reviews from accomplished photographers or photo editors but I'd go in with a thick skin and listen but also listen to your own inner voice if something just doesn't jive with how you like to shoot and how you see the world.
I think they can prove very helpful and I don't have much to add to the great advice about. The only thing is to reenforce the idea of picking the right pro - I'd only take advice from someone who's work I admire.

Thanks to all for your comments. I've done over 30 workshop/tours with many professionals, including Steve, and have learned a lot from that. I think an outside review of my work from someone with Frans experience might be good so nice to hear that this type of thing has been helpful for others.
 
Good read, thanks all. A different leve for surel, but I try to learn by listening to the critique of my shots here:

Very true. One of the ways I got better was to post images for critique way back when. Really makes a difference.
 
Good read, thanks all. A different leve for surel, but I try to learn by listening to the critique of my shots here:

The key is to realize that the responder is taking a big chance in responding. Many people ask for feedback but then take the comments personally and respond by attacking the reviewer. You REALLY need to have an open mind and WANT TO IMPROVE. Responders are trying to help - not tear you down. Getting defensive over honest feedback helps no one.
 
Very true. One of the ways I got better was to post images for critique way back when. Really makes a difference.

While posting an image anywhere can provide valuable feedback it may not always provide enough feedback to help someone "up their game," as the saying goes. I do think as a photographer's skill progresses they need more critical feedback from more experienced photographers, such as the one I mentioned, that might help them to realize their full potential, at least that is what I hope might happen. The critique section here and on other sites is good for people just starting out. The problem with any critique site is people often just say "great," when it's really not, and they fail to notice even the smallest problem, such as large areas of blown-out highlights. There is a big difference between someone liking a shot and a shot being critically effective, good technique and good composition and all of the other elements needed for a sound shot. I think people are afraid to be really critical on forums because no one wants to hurt someone's feelings or get that person mad at them so often there is little true critique that takes place.
 
While posting an image anywhere can provide valuable feedback it may not always provide enough feedback to help someone "up their game," as the saying goes. I do think as a photographer's skill progresses they need more critical feedback from more experienced photographers, such as the one I mentioned, that might help them to realize their full potential, at least that is what I hope might happen. The critique section here and on other sites is good for people just starting out. The problem with any critique site is people often just say "great," when it's really not, and they fail to notice even the smallest problem, such as large areas of blown-out highlights. There is a big difference between someone liking a shot and a shot being critically effective, good technique and good composition and all of the other elements needed for a sound shot. I think people are afraid to be really critical on forums because no one wants to hurt someone's feelings or get that person mad at them so often there is little true critique that takes place.
Very true.

The thing with posting in critique forums, it that it's more of a cumulative effect. You won't get a comprehensive, professional review for each image, but lots of mini reviews for a wider variety of shots that all help elevate your images.
 
I suspect this is also a bit of a buyer beware situation. I can see getting a lot of valuable advice, whether you want to hear it or not, but I can also see somebody taking a kid glove approach when doing a paid critique as a lot of photographers would not want to get a bad reputation. I saw something similar to this when a relative paid for a photographer from a "national magazine" to meet with an older relative who was into photography. Given the comments that were shared with me, I suspect that the "pro" was looking for easy money and was plying on their prior work to get it. This is obviously quite a different experience than with somebody like Frans Lanting, but I do see a lot of folks hanging out their shingle offering workshops and wonder why folks pay what they do given the credentials and photographic experience offered.

--Ken
 
Had my own experience with this last winter while there for 4 months. Our camera club had a contest and I had a wildlife picture I wanted to enter and two of the top people in the club, recommended that I submit two other pictures. Gave me reasons as to why they wouldn’t enter the picture I preferred. I did and they were well received. The next month we had two professionals for our program. After the meeting, I was visiting with the two of them. They offered to give me some advice and they took a look at 6-8 of my pictures, and guess what they said? Without knowing, they selected the picture that I was encouraged not to enter and provided their rationale for selecting that as my best picture! I smiled and told them my experience and they encouraged me to get other reputable input, but don’t hesitate making the final decision!
 
Last edited:
On some photo trips i have had the leader, a well known pro, provide image critique. Images are rough so processing is not a major part of the critique. Often he suggests ways to improve the image
 
Had my own experience with this last winter while there for 4 months. Our camera club had a contest and I had a wildlife picture I wanted to enter and two of the top people in the club, recommended that I submit two other pictures. Gave me reasons as to why they wouldn’t enter the picture I preferred. I did and they were well received. The next month we had two professionals for our program. After the meeting, I was visiting with the two of them. They offered to give me some advice and they took a look at 6-8 of my pictures, and guess what they said? Without knowing, they selected the picture that I was encouraged not to enter and provided their rationale for selecting that as my best picture! I smiled and told them my experience and they encouraged me to get other reputable input, but don’t hesitate making the final decision!
It reminds me a bit of getting a second opinion from a medical professional. If you do not like what you hear should you get a third opinion? In your situation, one could ask if the folks that liked your images were not good judges, or were the professionals and the two photographers the ones who were not good judges?

I never really liked contests since they more or less revolve around popularity, and its byproduct - winners and losers. I do like constructive criticism, even if it is blunt, because that helps me think about my images in a different perspective, and hopefully popularity is not in that equation to any great degree.

--Ken
 
My experience regarding portfolio review is that the senior photographer usually does not know in depth the
person he is talking to. As a result, he tends to limit himself in comments to avoid being misunderstood and to appear presumptuous and offended.

For example, I have posted several times in the Nature photography critique section here in the blog, and only a few of you have clearly and transparently commented on my photos.
On the other hand, when asked, I always tend to comment constructively on my opinion. As well as, if I accompany people who are less "expert" than me to photograph, I almost always give them the best place to take the shot while remaining on the sidelines.
For my part fortunately, I have some friends who are much better photographers than me and who help me improve by highlighting the mistakes I have made.
Another way to improve photographically is to study the photos of other outstanding photographers we respect as our dear Steve.
 
I don't have a problem with entering competitions, I always get accepted and often win awards. Since I have traveled with many professional photographers, for both wildlife and landscape, I have had the benefit of their knowledge. I have judged photo competitions, too, and this can be tricky to do as one does not want to stifle the excitement of photography. I think I am at a point in my journey where someone like Frans, a well-published and expert photographer, could be beneficial in helping me to be a better photographer but don't know yet if I'll get to his event. It's good to know that some people have had a good experience with a portfolio review; I do know it's not without its hazards. Being good at critique depends on the person and I'm ok with whatever their approach may be as I generally take it all in and process it for awhile, then spit out what does not work for me or what I don't think is helpful. Thanks for all the comments, obviously the subject of critique is of interest to others, too.
 
Steve did mini-critiques for those of us in his Costa Rica workshop. I found this extremely helpful. He was very specific but also focused on fundamentals. One result was that I know have an extra voice in my ear as I am setting up my picture, and also when I review images post shoot. Especially: IS THE EYE SHARP? I MEAN, REALLY SHARP? and FILL UP THE VIEWFINDER WITH YOUR SUBJECT.
 
Something I have noticed is that images posted online that have issues are seldom critiqued as people don't like to criticize or maybe they lack the knowledge. One of the key benefits of a workshop is have ones images reviewed by others in the group and the group leaders. Classes provided by community colleges or adult education programs are another option.

When I started out doing underwater photography I had at most one good image out of 36 from a roll of film. I took a class with Cathy Church who has been teaching UW photography for 50 years. The class did 4 dives each day with 2-3 rolls of film per dive and it was developed each night and we would review the results each morning. My good image rate went up to more than 30 per roll of film. It would be even easier now with digital cameras but the process would be the same.

A workshop with a good instructor (evaluate their work beforehand) and a reasonable number of participants is money well spent.
 
Take a look at some of the ideas from Brooks Jensen as well. He has a series of podcasts and articles and often touches on what makes a great image. Dave Middleton and Amy Gulick are also excellent story tellers. Amy comes from a wedding background, but today shoots nature stills and video. The common thread in her work is her ability to tell a story that conveys an emotion.

Frans Lanting's perspective on narrowing the images to tell a story is an important perspective. There are lots of ways to tell a story, but the common thread is it takes a set of images. You'll have one or two superstar images. But more important are the other images that provide details, context , and interesting perspectives in support of the story. Look at your images and start to think about sets of images and stories with 10-20 images - of which 3-5 are selected by the editor. Or better still - be your own editor and select the 5 images that tell a story. It's hard.

Some portfolio reviews can be very good. You can guide the review how you want, and should pick reviewers that can give you what you need. There is a big difference between a gallery owner specializing in nature photography (individual superstar images) and an editor specializing in nature photography (sets of images that tell an important story). If you have a specific genre that is your interest, look at the best photographers and teachers for that genre - not a generic reviewer.

I was with top pro (equal to Frans) at a photo conference. He provided more than a dozen portfolio reviews of 20 images per photographer. His standard was the standard he uses for his own work - ruthless critique to separate the chafe from the stars. He told me he saw just two star images out of 240+ images. The real education was most of the photographers - even some who had done well in competitions - were not tough enough on their own images and in many cases, did not know what it took to make a great image. Usually it is little details that make or break the image - a head position, a shadow, the elevation of the camera in relation to the subject, etc.
 
Back
Top