Z9 back up camera

[fcotterill]

This old thread has returned just as I realized how challenging it is to use any Nikon Z body other than the Z9. I was perfectly happy with Z6/Z7 (I or IIs) when I was shooting them w/ a D500 for fast wildlife. About a year ago I reluctantly purchased a Z9 (price reluctance) and sold all my other cameras but the Z6II. My Z6II is more of a 2nd camera rather than a back-up, as a back-up implies that this is the camera to be used if the primary fails in the field.

Fortunately there are at least 4 excellent DSLRs, but obviously with the penalties of no Mirrorless features, and they are only feasible as backups to a Z9 with f-mount optics.

At very least a Z6 (Z7) can backup with a Z Telephoto. My Z7 performed very well in so many contexts, until it was in trickier situations with active subjects (ie the D500-D5-D850 zone)...

With the exception of using the Z6II for landscape and macro subjects, it is unused... in fact, it almost seems primitive in comparison to the Z9. Nikon's slow release of a smaller camera with the Z9 button layout has been frustrating. In fact, I'd be fine if they produced a Z6III that has the Z9 configuration w minor improvements. As Karen points out at the beginning of the thread,... the switching of the UI in the heat of the moment is a formula for frustration.

I waited nearly 2 years for some seemingly simple firmware fixes for the Z6 - Z7 lines, namely adding options in the Custom menu for AFMode+AFOn; options for quicker control over eye-animal recognition etc would also have been useful. Eventually I gave up the wait, and ended up with a Used D5.
It proved pointless submitting requests along formal channels within Nikon to prioritize the fixes. The irony remains one is constricted to using only 1 AF mode at any one time.... out of ~10 AF modes...

Last time I checked a Z6/Z7, the menu options still lock out much of the potential to customize the Lens-Fn buttons on the Z telephotos.

It's equally ironic how what has become generally and widely popularized as the Custom Hybrid-Focus setup in the Z9 is nothing new. It's been available since early 2016 in the D5 and D500, with D850 added in 2017

However,... with all of this said, I am not sure I am up to yet another $3000 ++ purchase, thus if Nikon does introduce a smaller Z9/Z8/Z6ii, I will probably be in the "wait and see" mode.

bruce

It's clear Nikon is marching to its own beat in rolling out the Z system for genres entailing action :- Maximize earnings on more expensive "Exotic" products, including the flagship Z9 and higher-priced (including fast) telephotos....then presumably only 18 months later is Nikon poised to kick off sales earning smaller profits on more affordable camera(s) with Z9 technology.

 

[Ken Miracle]

Fortunately there are at least 4 excellent DSLRs, but obviously with the penalties of no Mirrorless features, and they are only feasible as backups to a Z9 with f-mount optics.

At very least a Z6 (Z7) can backup with a Z Telephoto. My Z7 performed very well in so many contexts, until it was in trickier situations with active subjects (ie the D500-D5-D850 zone)...

I waited nearly 2 years for some seemingly simple firmware fixes for the Z6 - Z7 lines, namely adding options in the Custom menu for AFMode+AFOn; options for quicker control over eye-animal recognition etc would also have been useful. Eventually I gave up the wait, and ended up with a Used D5.
It proved pointless submitting requests along formal channels within Nikon to prioritize the fixes. The irony remains one is constricted to using only 1 AF mode at any one time.... out of ~10 AF modes...

Last time I checked a Z6/Z7, the menu options still lock out much of the potential to customize the Lens-Fn buttons on the Z telephotos.

It's equally ironic how what has become generally and widely popularized as the Custom Hybrid-Focus setup in the Z9 is nothing new. It's been available since early 2016 in the D5 and D500, with D850 added in 2017


It's clear Nikon is marching to its own beat in rolling out the Z system for genres entailing action :- Maximize earnings on more expensive "Exotic" products, including the flagship Z9 and higher-priced (including fast) telephotos....then presumably only 18 months later is Nikon poised to kick off sales earning smaller profits on more affordable camera(s) with Z9 technology.

I am not sure what you mean by a Custom Hybrid-Focus set up I have read many things called that over time related to the Z9 but do not remember anything called that for DSLRs, just curious about what you mean by that term? I probably missed something along the way

I had D500, D850 and D6 I remember an auto area af mode or some such thing and a 3d mode in the D6 and I think the D850 but also that I found them relatively useless for bird photography. And stuck with single point and group and putting my focus point where I wanted it.

 

[fcotterill]

I am not sure what you mean by a Custom Hybrid-Focus set up I have read many things called that over time related to the Z9

What I sketch below is Hybrid-Focus (at least how I describe it...) versus the Focus Hand-Over setup in the Z9, which differs in one first activates a AFMode on the shutter release and follow up complementary AFmodes on Fn buttons - I don't use HandOver, but I'm old-fashioned and locked into BBAF

but do not remember anything called that for DSLRs, just curious about what you mean by that term?

Basically, Hybrid Focus assigns (in Custom settings) different AF modes to 2 or more controls on the camera. They include the AFmode set to the AFOn button. A common setup on a D500, for example, is Single-Point+AFOn on Pv and d25+AFon on Fn1 with AFOn set to GroupAF

One can go further - add AutoAF+AFon to a Lens-Fn button and so on. If muscle memory works for you, 4 or more AF modes can be setup at one's fingertips. These can be toggled like a playing a musical instrument. I have 4 modes with the Z9: 3D, AutoAF, and a pair of CustomArea Group modes (one is 1*1 CA).

For where and how I photograph mammals and birds in brush and reeds etc, I adopted this strategy with a D500 in late 2016, which changed my wildlife photography; I've continued to lean heavily on this Hybrid-Focus custom setup with a D850 and D5, and it's even better on the D6

I probably missed something along the way

I had D500, D850 and D6 I remember an auto area af mode or some such thing and a 3d mode in the D6 and I think the D850 but also that I found them relatively useless for bird photography. And stuck with single point and group and putting my focus point where I wanted it.

I also use the single-point as a backup on the D6 ( Fn2), with Custom Group Area as the core AFmode, and 3D on Fn1. AutoAF on Lens-Fn. Subject and Eye Detection is enabled for Auto, 3D and Group modes. With the D6, 3D mode is in its own league; so this is the first DSLR with which I've bothered using 3D. I find it often grabs the eye of a bird or mammal, and it is very very quick.

 

[Ken Miracle]

What I sketch below is Hybrid-Focus (at least how I describe it...) versus the Focus Hand-Over setup in the Z9 using a AFMode activated first with the shutter release and complementary AFmodes on Fn buttons - I don't use HandOver, being old-fashioned and locked into BBAF

Basically, this is the custom setup enabled using Custom settings to assign different AF modes to 2 or more controls on the camera, which include the AFmode set to the AFOn button. A common setup on a D500, for example, is Single-Point+AFOn on Pv and d25+AFon on Fn1 with AFOn set to GroupAF

One can go further - add AutoAF+AFon to a Lens-Fn button and so on. If muscle memory works for you, 4 or more AF modes can be setup at one's fingertips. These can be toggled like a playing a musical instrument. I have 4 modes with the Z9: 3D, AutoAF, and a pair of CustomArea Group modes (one is 1*1 CA)

For where and how I photograph mammals and birds in brush and reeds etc, I adopted this strategy with a D500 in late 2016, which changed my wildlife photography; I've continued to lean heavily on this Hybrid-Focus custom setup with a D850 and D5, and it's even better on the D6

I also use the single-point as a backup on the D6, with Custom Group Area as the core AFmode, and 3D on Fn1. AutoAF on Lens-Fn. Subject and Eye Detection is enabled for Auto, 3D and Group modes. With the D6, 3D mode is in its own league; so this is the first DSLR with which I've bothered with 3D. I find it often grabs the eye of a bird or mammal, and it is very very quick.

Thank you now I know what "you" mean by the Hybrid

I was never really happy with the 3D on my D6 for birds. I did use various function buttons to move quickly between AF area modes in my DSLRs but mainly between single point and group.

DSLR use no longer an issue since I sold off all of my f mount gear last year by 5-1-22 when I had the Z9 and Z6II and Z100-400, Z70-200, Z24-120, Z 14-30, Z800 and Z1.4TC, before the prices started the big drop.

I used BBF for about a year in my DSLR days but just never liked my thumb tied up and preferred front button focus so what I was used to.

As the Z9 and it's various firmware has progressed I now use a version of "Hybrid" ... I am set up for both hand off and not.

My basic set up actually utilizes what I think of as a hybrid version of BBF

I have a7 focus point persistence on auto to help facilitate hand off from one AF Area mode to another. I have animal subject detection on.

I have my buttons for AF-Area Mode and AF set to:

Shutter half press wide-area AF C1 sized to 5x3.

AF/ON button to AFArea mode 3D + AF-ON

Fn1 button to AFArea mode single point + AF-ON

Fn2 button to AFArea mode to AF Area Mode + AF-ON

For birds in flight it varies from my experience I evaluate the bird, background, distance etc. and select which AF-area mode I will start with and change as needed while I am shooting.

Many times I will use shutter release button focus wide area AF C1 5x3 only.

Other times I start with C1 5x3 and when in focus hand off to 3D or AF Area mode both work quite well but I use 3D for more precision and auto area for situations of erratic flight or multiple birds where I want to change from one bird to the another.

After FW 3.01 and now with FW 3.1 .... I now frequently go directly to 3D or AF Area mode + AF directly by pushing the button I have set.

I seldom use single point AF on BIF but will if I want precision on some large birds and animal detection off.

 

[JamesFarrell]

This old thread has returned just as I realized how challenging it is to use any Nikon Z body other than the Z9. I was perfectly happy with Z6/Z7 (I or IIs) when I was shooting them w/ a D500 for fast wildlife. About a year ago I reluctantly purchased a Z9 (price reluctance) and sold all my other cameras but the Z6II. My Z6II is more of a 2nd camera rather than a back-up, as a back-up implies that this is the camera to be used if the primary fails in the field.
With the exception of using the Z6II for landscape and macro subjects, it is unused... in fact, it almost seems primitive in comparison to the Z9. Nikon's slow release of a smaller camera with the Z9 button layout has been frustrating. In fact, I'd be fine if they produced a Z6III that has the Z9 configuration w minor improvements. As Karen points out at the beginning of the thread,... the switching of the UI in the heat of the moment is a formula for frustration.
However,... with all of this said, I am not sure I am up to yet another $3000 ++ purchase, thus if Nikon does introduce a smaller Z9/Z8/Z6ii, I will probably be in the "wait and see" mode.

bruce

Hi Bruce ( and others): Well I have now proven that in post #22 of this thread that I ‘lied‘ when I stated unequivocally in February that I would not buy a second Z9 and would use a Z7-II as a backup and just live with button & layout differences and the resultant muscle memory confusion. Fast forward to the end of March following a week-long photo tour on the Pacific coast of Vancouver Island. Like you Bruce, I unwillingly just found myself in lens changing ‘Hell’ constantly, never having what I wanted mounted to my Z9, all the while my Z7-II, my backup or second body, sat unused except for the occasional landscape op.

Arrived back home and decided to crunch the numbers to see if I could justify (emotionally) a second Z9. I recalled times in the past when I had multiple identical bodies. It was so much more enjoyable and efficient not having to expend my limited mental energy trying to recall how to use what is in my hand at the moment. So, a leap of faith or whatever, I sold my Z7-II and some other stuff and bought another new Z9. The net cost in the end was under $2,900 after selling stuff. I look forward to more Canada photo shoots this year with a Z 400/4.5 and a Z 70-200/2.8 both at the ready on a Z9. Of course there will be times when some lens changing happens, mostly to add my Z TC1.4 to one of the aforementioned lenses. And the Z9-400/4.5+TC14 at DX gets my field of view to 840 at f/6.3. Have used that combo a lot locally and find it to be very good, albeit at less resolution than full FX. My so-called, poor-man’s 840 PF.

Bruce: I would be surprised if a Z8, if there is one, will have enough similarities to a Z9 that a Z8 would be a vast improvement of your Z6-II and give you the same 'feel' (operationally) as a Z9. And so that might not solve the current issue you have with two very different cameras even after spending $3,000 plus for a Z8 and waiting for God knows how long to get one. I may get this wrong in the end; we'll see. What I suspect might happen is that when a Z8 comes out, if the masses perceive it as being similar in capbilities to a Z9, you’ll see a flood of Z9s hit the used market at lower prices. That might be an opportunity for you to snag a second Z9, if that's your ultimate goal.

I have thought about the lack of a small-ish camera for impromptu snaps. I think I’ll just use an iPhone 14 Pro or 15 Pro when it comes out later this year ( hopefully with better battery life and USB-C) as my XR is getting long in the tooth. The iPhone is awesome for 4K video.

Late Edit Note: I guess I am fortunate in that I have not had any lockup issues with my two Z9s. Perhaps it’s due to the fact that their serial numbers show they are from very recent ‘production batches’. My first Z9 arrived in mid September last year and the second one in late March. And the latest FW seems very stable, at least in my opinion.

 

[Ken Miracle]

Hi Bruce ( and others): Well I have now proven that in post #22 of this thread that I ‘lied‘ when I stated unequivocally in February that I would not buy a second Z9 and would use a Z7-II as a backup and just live with button & layout differences and the resultant muscle memory confusion. Fast forward to the end of March following a week-long photo tour on the Pacific coast of Vancouver Island. Like you Bruce, I unwilling just found myself in lens changing ‘Hell’ constantly, never having what I wanted mounted to my Z9, all the while my Z7-II, my backup or second body, sat unused except for the occasional landscape op.

Arrived back home and decided to crunch the numbers to see if I could justify (emotionally) a second Z9. I recalled times in the past when I had multiple identical bodies. It was so much more enjoyable and efficient not having to expend my limited mental energy trying to recall how to use what is in my hand at the moment. So, a leap of faith or whatever, I sold my Z7-II and some other stuff and bought another new Z9. The net cost in the end was under $2,900 after selling stuff. I look forward to more Canada photo shoots this year with a Z 400/4.5 and a Z 70-200/2.8 both at the ready on a Z9. Of course there will be times when some lens changing happens, mostly to add my Z TC1.4 to one of the aforementioned lenses. And the Z9-400/4.5+TC14 at DX gets my field of view to 840 at f/6.3. Have used that combo a lot locally and find it to be very good, albeit at less resolution than full FX. My so-called, poor-man’s 840 PF.

Bruce: I would be surprised if a Z8, if there is one, will have enough similarities to a Z9 that a Z8 would be a vast improvement of your Z6-II. That might not solve the current issue you have with two very different cameras even after spending $3,000 plus for a Z8 and waiting for God knows how long to get one. What I suspect might happen is that when a Z8 comes out you’ll see a flood of Z9s hit the used market at lower prices. That might be an opportunity for you For you to have a second Z9.

I have thought about the lack of a small-ish camera for impromptu snaps. I think I’ll just use an iPhone 14 Pro or 15 Pro when it comes out later this year ( hopefully with better battery life and USB-C) as my XR is getting long in the tooth. The iPhone is awesome for 4K video.

Late Edit Note: I guess I am fortunate in that I have not had any lockup issues with my two Z9s. Perhaps it’s due to the fact that their serial numbers show they are from very recent ‘production batches’. My first Z9 arrived in mid September last year and the second one in late March. And the latest FW seems very stable, at least in my opinio.

I was not a photographer when I spent time on Vancouver Island ... my dad and my step mother who lived in Courtenay-Comax on the bay both died about 15 years ago. I visited there several times and he took us over the the Pacific Coast a few times. I also worked for a company that had a yacht that cruised the inlets and straights between the mainland and the island but we never ventured to the Pacific side. My passport has expired but I may need to renew and go back with a camera.

 

[Roy]

I examined the other Z cameras and none are a suitable backup to my Z9. Do I really need another Z body, no. I have the D500 and still use it, but seldom. Since the D500 is darn near worthless (pricewise) I'll keep the D500 camera, it's fantastic. Selling the D - G lenses is not selling, it's giving them away.

I'm keeping my old G lenses for that reason.
I bought a Z6 and Z7ii but they both irritate me next to the Z9 - so i've sold the Z7ii.
Still have D850 D500 and D5 bodies but they are too different to the Z9 to use as backups - it messes up my mind switching.
Just hope the Z8 is Z9 like or i'll have to get another Z9 ...