Z9 Teaser Trailer Just Dropped in Australia

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Darwin

Well-known member
Supporting Member
I like his sentiment, but I have my doubts about the Z9 being better than the a1 or even the r3. History is just not on his side with that statement. Nikon has consistently been behind and now is a distant third in AF performance compared to the a1 and R3/5/6. I hope he's right since I'm planning to buy a Z9 - I'd like it to perform at that level - however, I think it's more likely to be at a9ii level. Again, I hope I'm wrong and I'm sure he has more sources at Nikon than I do (since I have, you know, none).
I see no logical reason why Z9 AF wouldn’t be as capable or even surpass that of the Sony A1. It isn’t a hardware issue. Even the lower end Z7ii and Z6ii have the hardware capability to match that of Sony; it’s just a matter of programming. Perhaps the delay in the Z9 has been centered around the software. The hardware had been in place for a long time, perhaps the last several months have been perfecting the software, more specifically the auto focus system.
 

Steve

Admin
Staff member
Supporting Member
I see no logical reason why Z9 AF wouldn’t be as capable or even surpass that of the Sony A1. It isn’t a hardware issue. Even the lower end Z7ii and Z6ii have the hardware capability to match that of Sony; it’s just a matter of programming. Perhaps the delay in the Z9 has been centered around the software. The hardware had been in place for a long time, perhaps the last several months have been perfecting the software, more specifically the auto focus system.
As I say, I hope that's correct. Thankfully we'll know soon :)
 

Marcus Slade

Active member
Supporting Member
I see no logical reason why Z9 AF wouldn’t be as capable or even surpass that of the Sony A1. It isn’t a hardware issue. Even the lower end Z7ii and Z6ii have the hardware capability to match that of Sony; it’s just a matter of programming. Perhaps the delay in the Z9 has been centered around the software. The hardware had been in place for a long time, perhaps the last several months have been perfecting the software, more specifically the auto focus system.
One has to think that the Z9's AF performance would put it in the "100 metre final" so to speak with the other "Canony" contenders but whether it will finish first remains to be seen. And, even if it does, how long will that last before someone else ups their game. Suffice it to say, it needs to be here soon and it needs to be extremely viable. Fingers continue to be crossed.
 

arbitrage

Well-known member
I'm just glad we have Steve who can eventually give us the lowdown on how the Z9 AF compares to the A1, A9II and R5. Usually I would do this myself but I don't think I will be able to justify a $9K CAD Z9 purchase just to satisfy my curiosity. Of course I have kept my 500PF around just in case the temptation is too strong ;)

Will the Z9 match the A1? For AF I strongly doubt it. For customization and ease of use I can guarantee it won't (I mean just lacking a 3rd wheel and having to push an ISO button drops it below all the current Canon and Sony bodies).
Will it have some features that are better than an A1? Guaranteed because that dual-tilt screen is exactly what I'd want if I had a choice. Also I'm a big fan of top plate LCD screens that Sony doesn't have. I'm sure there will be a few other things also. Whether those will be of importance remains to be seen.
 
If they can beat the a1 I’ll be impressed and welcome such a camera to the market. The a1 is the king of the hill right now and while new cameras have come out such as the R3 they fall short of knocking it off the hill. I think many under estimate just what it will take to best the a1.
IMO, the R6, R5, & R3 have better AF than Sony A1 in its current firmware form, but have ordinary sensors. (Yet to be seen for R3 as it comes with a BSI sensor). But yeah, traditionally, Canon sensors have performed badly in terms of colour noise & ISO performance.

If not the best AF, the A1 AF is still top class nonetheless & coupled with thier usual sensor performance, the A1 is a better choice for me.

So if Tom thinks Z9 will be better than A1, that's great to know.

Z9 is expected to come with a new non-Sony sensor... so several things to look forward to.

I hope they price it no more than Sony A1.
 

Venkatesh VT

Love nature & nature loves you back
IMO, the R6, R5, & R3 have better AF than Sony A1 in its current firmware form, but have ordinary sensors. (Yet to be seen for R3 as it comes with a BSI sensor). But yeah, traditionally, Canon sensors have performed badly in terms of colour noise & ISO performance.

If not the best AF, the A1 AF is still top class nonetheless & coupled with thier usual sensor performance, the A1 is a better choice for me.

So if Tom thinks Z9 will be better than A1, that's great to know.

Z9 is expected to come with a new non-Sony sensor... so several things to look forward to.

I hope they price it no more than Sony A1.
May i know on what basis your opinion was formed about AF of A1 compared to R3,R5 & R6.Did you compare them by shooting side by side ? I am curious since i am planning to buy A1
 

thelordofthelight

Active member
I will be shocked if the R5/6 AF performs better than the A1. As for R3, the real world reviews are yet to come out but i think it should be good. I will be more than happy if the Z9 AF equals the A9II. Sony set a high standard with the A1 in terms of the AF and that's something they were able to do after several years of R&D and it will be very difficult for Nikon to achieve that level of perfection in such a short time, if they do that'd be truly ground breaking (for Nikon and Nikon user base). In terms of the Z9 pricing, remember it is an A1 equivalent with an integrated grip.So technically, Nikon can price it slightly higher than the A1 although i think they wont and the price will be close to or even slightly lower than A1, considering the way Nikon has been pricing their mirrorless lenses.
 
May i know on what basis your opinion was formed about AF of A1 compared to R3,R5 & R6.Did you compare them by shooting side by side ? I am curious since i am planning to buy A1
1) I tested R6/100-400 & A9/200-600.
While R6 tracked swallows in flight in bad light easily even with a busy background, A9/200-600 couldn't. A9 kept focusing on the background.

Canon's AF at the moment is way superior, IMO.

When I say AF, I mean both tracking & initial target acquisition.

Speed of initial target acquisition.
(Amongst the 3)

1st place - Canon R6/100-400 usm ii
2nd - D500 with 500pf
3rd - A9 & 200-600 (wasn't good)

It is important to note that only A1 has a dedicated bird eye tracking. It is a new software that Sony is still trying to improve, while Canon's general purpose animal AF is excellent for bird tracking too. R6 was excellent. So it is more software than stacked sensor readout speed.

A pro YouTuber/photographer also spoke about how he got a swallow in flight shot with A1 & 600 f4 by pre focussing...

IMO, you don't need to do that for Canon as the AI is that clever...

2) All the YouTube reviews indicate that R5/R6/R3 AF is either equal or better than Sony AF.

3) If I were you, I would still pick A1 over Canon, as Canon sensors are not great. Also, Sony AF can get better with firmware updates.

4) Anyway, don't take my word for it. You should definitely try the different bodies before buying them. You should share your experiences after you test them. I would love to know.
 
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abc123brian

Well-known member
May i know on what basis your opinion was formed about AF of A1 compared to R3,R5 & R6.Did you compare them by shooting side by side ? I am curious since i am planning to buy A1
I haven’t done a comparison myself, but if you watch comparison videos and read comparison articles, it seems that there are mixed thoughts on which performs better in AF performance. This leads me to believe that the overall performance is about the same and one performs slightly better in certain situations and the other in different situations. Example is the Canon R5 is said to acquire the eyes of a bird faster and stay on them where the A1 might acquire the body and move to the head. I doubt the difference will be very noticeable in the resulting photo. To counter that, many say the A1 is less likely to jump to the background. so which is really better 🤷‍♂️
 
I haven’t done a comparison myself, but if you watch comparison videos and read comparison articles, it seems that there are mixed thoughts on which performs better in AF performance. This leads me to believe that the overall performance is about the same and one performs slightly better in certain situations and the other in different situations. Example is the Canon R5 is said to acquire the eyes of a bird faster and stay on them where the A1 might acquire the body and move to the head. I doubt the difference will be very noticeable in the resulting photo. To counter that, many say the A1 is less likely to jump to the background. so which is really better 🤷‍♂️
Yeah, it is best to test it yourself & decide on what suits you.
 

RockvilleBob

Active member
Supporting Member
I feel the same since Nikon could not get its act together with Z l & ll versions compared to Sony's A9 & A 9 ii & Canons R5 folowed by R3 ( which is sub par compared to A1).
While I would also be very happy if Z9 beats A1 I doubt it seriously & hence getting A1 shortly
I also think Nikon's mature mirrorless cameras with matching tele lenses would be available only by end 2022
Exactly my sentiments. At 76 I do not know how many years I have left to physically schlep cameras out for wildlife photography or for how many more years I will still have interest schlepping gear into wildlife areas. Currently I still have interest and don't mind the schlep. Make hay while the sunshines. So I am refining my foray into mirrorless with the SONY A1 down to selecting memory cards, grip or no grip, ceramic filter or no ceramic filter for the 200-600 SONY lens ( the ceramic filter has proven an expensive but worthwhile addition for kayak photography.) I hope to complete this in the next week and start enjoying my mirrorless adventure.
 

arbitrage

Well-known member
1) I tested R6/100-400 & A9/200-600.
While R6 tracked swallows in flight in bad light easily even with a busy background, A9/200-600 couldn't. A9 kept focusing on the background.

Canon's AF at the moment is way superior, IMO.

When I say AF, I mean both tracking & initial target acquisition.

Speed of initial target acquisition.
(Amongst the 3)

1st place - Canon R6/100-400 usm ii
2nd - D500 with 500pf
3rd - A9 & 200-600 (wasn't good)

It is important to note that only A1 has a dedicated bird eye tracking. It is a new software that Sony is still trying to improve, while Canon's general purpose animal AF is excellent for bird tracking too. R6 was excellent. So it is more software than stacked sensor readout speed.

A pro YouTuber/photographer also spoke about how he got a swallow in flight shot with A1 & 600 f4 by pre focussing...

IMO, you don't need to do that for Canon as the AI is that clever...

2) All the YouTube reviews indicate that R5/R6/R3 AF is either equal or better than Sony AF.

3) If I were you, I would still pick A1 over Canon, as Canon sensors are not great. Also, Sony AF can get better with firmware updates.

4) Anyway, don't take my word for it. You should definitely try the different bodies before buying them. You should share your experiences after you test them. I would love to know.
I know you read my opinion on A1 v R5 AF in the other thread so I won't rehash all of it here.

My issue with R5 AF was difficulty acquiring focus when the bird was close to a complicated background and even more difficult staying on it for more than a few frames if it did pick it up in the first place. The other issue was losing the bird as the bird left an OOF background onto a partially in focus background (including a pebbled beach and long grass).

The A9/A1 have much less issues with those scenarios. They fail in them sometimes but way less so than the R5.

If I was ranking AF systems from the ones I've owned and shot 10,000s of frames on each, I'd go with this order:
1) A1
2) A9/A9II
3) R5
4) D500
5) D850
6) 1DXII
and so on....

Now there are a few footnotes for those rankings...it is never totally clear cut. All the MILC options have issues with going from distant subject to small, grossly OOF subject without help from the user (either MF, aiming at the ground or pre-focus lens setting) compared to the DSLRs on that list. For Bird Eye AF the R5 is slightly better at seeing the bird earlier and at distance over the A1 and the other options don't have Bird Eye-AF. But for AF tracking and acquisition I think the list is accurate to my experience.

All YT reviews don't show the R5/6 better than Sony. Mark Smith had R5 and got rid of it quickly because it was always jumping to the water as his osprey's came down to water level. I concur with that finding as I mentioned earlier. Jan Wagner borrowed an A1 for a couple days having never shot Sony before...he is an excellent photographer but I don't want to put too much faith in someone with almost no experience with a totally new system. But even he said the Sony Eye AF was stickier than the R5 once it got going...same thing I experienced.

As to the R3, I still have an active CPS Platinum membership and therefore can test drive an R3 and RF 600/4 as soon as they are available to test drive from CPS. That gives me a nice 3 day weekend of shooting to see how the R3 compares to the A1, R5, A9 etc. I'll be doing that as soon as I can. Although I may be better off to wait till March when my swallows return as most (all) of my winter subjects are a little too easy for any of these current AF systems and teasing out the nuances is much more difficult. But I'm allowed two test drives of each item so may do one in the winter and another for spring swallows.
 
I know you read my opinion on A1 v R5 AF in the other thread so I won't rehash all of it here.

My issue with R5 AF was difficulty acquiring focus when the bird was close to a complicated background and even more difficult staying on it for more than a few frames if it did pick it up in the first place. The other issue was losing the bird as the bird left an OOF background onto a partially in focus background (including a pebbled beach and long grass).

The A9/A1 have much less issues with those scenarios. They fail in them sometimes but way less so than the R5.

If I was ranking AF systems from the ones I've owned and shot 10,000s of frames on each, I'd go with this order:
1) A1
2) A9/A9II
3) R5
4) D500
5) D850
6) 1DXII
and so on....

Now there are a few footnotes for those rankings...it is never totally clear cut. All the MILC options have issues with going from distant subject to small, grossly OOF subject without help from the user (either MF, aiming at the ground or pre-focus lens setting) compared to the DSLRs on that list. For Bird Eye AF the R5 is slightly better at seeing the bird earlier and at distance over the A1 and the other options don't have Bird Eye-AF. But for AF tracking and acquisition I think the list is accurate to my experience.

All YT reviews don't show the R5/6 better than Sony. Mark Smith had R5 and got rid of it quickly because it was always jumping to the water as his osprey's came down to water level. I concur with that finding as I mentioned earlier. Jan Wagner borrowed an A1 for a couple days having never shot Sony before...he is an excellent photographer but I don't want to put too much faith in someone with almost no experience with a totally new system. But even he said the Sony Eye AF was stickier than the R5 once it got going...same thing I experienced.

As to the R3, I still have an active CPS Platinum membership and therefore can test drive an R3 and RF 600/4 as soon as they are available to test drive from CPS. That gives me a nice 3 day weekend of shooting to see how the R3 compares to the A1, R5, A9 etc. I'll be doing that as soon as I can. Although I may be better off to wait till March when my swallows return as most (all) of my winter subjects are a little too easy for any of these current AF systems and teasing out the nuances is much more difficult. But I'm allowed two test drives of each item so may do one in the winter and another for spring swallows.

It is awesome that you got to use them so extensively. I would love to try Sony A1 a try, even more so as its dynamic range is really good compared to Canon. Meanwhile you should test the R6.
 

Abinoone

Well-known member
Supporting Member
I like his sentiment, but I have my doubts about the Z9 being better than the a1 or even the r3. History is just not on his side with that statement. Nikon has consistently been behind and now is a distant third in AF performance compared to the a1 and R3/5/6. I hope he's right since I'm planning to buy a Z9 - I'd like it to perform at that level - however, I think it's more likely to be at a9ii level. Again, I hope I'm wrong and I'm sure he has more sources at Nikon than I do (since I have, you know, none).
We all hope you're wrong, Steve! It would do my old, old soul some good to see Nikon ahead of the pack again. 🥇
 

GrandNagus50

Active member
Who did you preorder with? BH just says 'coming soon notify when available' How much did you pay?
I apparently have a "relationship" with Precision Camera in Austin, Texas :) . I preordered an Olympus lens from them earlier this year and I was very pleased with their service. So I inquired about preordering the Z9. I paid a $400 deposit and will pay the balance (obviously) when the camera arrives in their store. Mike's Camera in California takes preorders, as well, and I am sure there are other smaller stores or store chains that do this. I have learned that for these big, limited releases B & H is about the worst place to order (except maybe Amazon). I love B & H, but they just get so many orders that you can end up way in the back of the queue and a long wait.
 

dtibbals

Well-known member
Supporting Member
I apparently have a "relationship" with Precision Camera in Austin, Texas :) . I preordered an Olympus lens from them earlier this year and I was very pleased with their service. So I inquired about preordering the Z9. I paid a $400 deposit and will pay the balance (obviously) when the camera arrives in their store. Mike's Camera in California takes preorders, as well, and I am sure there are other smaller stores or store chains that do this. I have learned that for these big, limited releases B & H is about the worst place to order (except maybe Amazon). I love B & H, but they just get so many orders that you can end up way in the back of the queue and a long wait.
I have been to Precision Camera many times and been to dinner with the owner. It is an amazing store with great people!
 

FB101

Well-known member
Supporting Member
I have been feeling all day like something was missing... and then I realized what it was. Teaser #2 didn’t come today... I guess teaser #2 really was that page with the blank squares for future videos.

i guess Nikon is taking tantric marketing to a whole new level (you know, when foreplay is stretched out forever and you never get to climax) 😁

And yes, I know, Tantra is not Japanese but they are mastering the art nonetheless.
 

Darwin

Well-known member
Supporting Member
I have been feeling all day like something was missing... and then I realized what it was. Teaser #2 didn’t come today... I guess teaser #2 really was that page with the blank squares for future videos.

i guess Nikon is taking tantric marketing to a whole new level (you know, when foreplay is stretched out forever and you never get to climax) 😁

And yes, I know, Tantra is not Japanese but they are mastering the art nonetheless.
I waited all day, very disappointing that they don’t just release what they have. Even if they give a date a few months off just show us what it is.
 

RockvilleBob

Active member
Supporting Member
I have been feeling all day like something was missing... and then I realized what it was. Teaser #2 didn’t come today... I guess teaser #2 really was that page with the blank squares for future videos.

i guess Nikon is taking tantric marketing to a whole new level (you know, when foreplay is stretched out forever and you never get to climax) 😁

And yes, I know, Tantra is not Japanese but they are mastering the art nonetheless.
If there was something worthwhile and pacesetting to announce - why delay when loyal customers are leaving?
I just recall the ZII pre-announcement sizzle that yielded a couple of duds when it come to fast action autofocus performance.
 

FB101

Well-known member
Supporting Member
I don’t really have a dog in that hunt anymore, I went with the A1 a month ago and although it’s not “perfect” it’s better for wildlife than the D500, D850 I also own and the Z9 I can’t own.
There were many factors that got me to try Sony but Nikon”s lack of transparency and communication was top of that list.

i sure hope the Z9 is a stunning camera. I actually think it will be. In the meantime, although not the second coming of the messiah some want it to be, the A1 is the best camera for shooting wildlife money can buy today, and I have tried them all (except the R3).
 

dtibbals

Well-known member
Supporting Member
I don’t really have a dog in that hunt anymore, I went with the A1 a month ago and although it’s not “perfect” it’s better for wildlife than the D500, D850 I also own and the Z9 I can’t own.
There were many factors that got me to try Sony but Nikon”s lack of transparency and communication was top of that list.

i sure hope the Z9 is a stunning camera. I actually think it will be. In the meantime, although not the second coming of the messiah some want it to be, the A1 is the best camera for shooting wildlife money can buy today, and I have tried them all (except the R3).
I’m with you. Waiting for my Sony 600f4 to come in. Once it’s hear switching is highly unlikely. Oh and the Sony 70-200f2.8 MKII is being announced on Oct 13th! I can’t wait!! I’ve held off buying one since the rumor is there is an updated one coming.
 

thelordofthelight

Active member
Back to the Z9 topic, here's another leak of a teaser LoL..New card door lock, some interesting video specs like 2hrs of 8K shooting...
 
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