500mm PF and Nikon Z6ii

[sh1209]

After switching the focus mode on the lens and keeping my hand off the focus ring, I'm 99% sure this was the issue. The sign image was taken at 1/250th at 150 yards handheld, the cleaner bottle was taken at 1/500th 30ft, the concrete lion was at 1/500th 100ft, the art signature 1/500th 30ft and the stone at 1/320th 30ft all handheld. Its a drastic difference from what I've experienced the last few days and certainly a sigh of relief.

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[ChrisM]

Good to hear that solved it! I never changed the default position of that switch.

 

[sh1209]

Good to hear that solved it! I never changed the default position of that switch.

I think I would probably be OK leaving it in that position as long as I keep my hand away from the focus ring but it’s very sensitive to say the least even the slightest touch overrides Focus. I’ll leave it in the other position for now but perhaps it would be helpful in some situations. One thing for damn sure it has certainly caused a boatload of grief the last few days lol. I didn’t know if whether I had forgotten how to use my damn camera or was losing my mind LOL.

 

[Marco74]

I’m happy that you Solve the problem.
I have the Lenscoat to protect the lens so my switch are well protected it is quite challenging to change them, so I generally keep the AF switch on A / M position. I change it only when necessary.

 

[Ralph]

I think I would probably be OK leaving it in that position as long as I keep my hand away from the focus ring but it’s very sensitive to say the least even the slightest touch overrides Focus. I’ll leave it in the other position for now but perhaps it would be helpful in some situations. One thing for damn sure it has certainly caused a boatload of grief the last few days lol. I didn’t know if whether I had forgotten how to use my damn camera or was losing my mind LOL.

Glad to hear you figured it out. The A/M setting would be perfectly fine. You just have to turn the ring considerably more than the M/F setting In order to have it switch to manual.

 

[ssheipel]

One of the takeaways from one of Steve's books that has stuck with me is that I spent a long time thinking shutter speeds such as 1/500 were 'fast'; He has specific ranges for various scenarios (of course I don't remember those; old memory here) but I now when hand holding (almost always) am rarely below 1/1200 (and much higher for BIF or very active beasts) and will push the ISO (eg auto ISO, and I'm lucky I've got the D6) before slowing the shutter. Good luck!

 

[sh1209]

One of the takeaways from one of Steve's books that has stuck with me is that I spent a long time thinking shutter speeds such as 1/500 were 'fast'; He has specific ranges for various scenarios (of course I don't remember those; old memory here) but I now when hand holding (almost always) am rarely below 1/1200 (and much higher for BIF or very active beasts) and will push the ISO (eg auto ISO, and I'm lucky I've got the D6) before slowing the shutter. Good luck!

I’ve heard him say that before regarding the shutter speed but my question is, how do you clean that up in post. Even at 6400 iso in my z6, z7 and the d850 I had prior to these bodies the images were just about unusable at 6400 and above. I use Lightroom and photoshop and no matter how you approach removing the noise you really start losing detail well before the noise is corrected. I realize some noise is fine especially if you don’t get an image but especially with the d850 the images were terrible at 6400 or at least to me anyhow.

 

[ssheipel]

I’ve heard him say that before regarding the shutter speed but my question is, how do you clean that up in post. Even at 6400 iso in my z6, z7 and the d850 I had prior to these bodies the images were just about unusable at 6400 and above. I use Lightroom and photoshop and no matter how you approach removing the noise you really start losing detail well before the noise is corrected. I realize some noise is fine especially if you don’t get an image but especially with the d850 the images were terrible at 6400 or at least to me anyhow.

That answer may rest in the third party noise and sharpening tools....

 

[sh1209]

That answer may rest in the third party noise and sharpening tools....

I’ve never tried anything other than photoshop and Lightroom. I do have luminar 4 but haven’t tried it in images with a large amount of noise.

 

[Marco74]

That answer may rest in the third party noise and sharpening tools....

I agree. For a problem normally there are more than one solution and in my limited experience, this solutions are called plugin or other software.
Depending on the type of photo, I tray a different approach to remove the noise. The last step is the selective mask that I usually try to avoid for a faster method.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I think I may have figured out what’s going on. I’ve been doing some handheld shots in the house this morning from 25 to 30 feet even all the way down to 1/125th and getting good results. I’m not used to a lens that has the three selections for auto focus because my 200-500 lens only has manual and auto focus. I turned my focus peaking on and I think what’s happening is I’m grabbing the lens with the focus ring and causing it to go out of focus manually. I have had it in the center position M/A and even the slightest touch overrides the autofocus. I’ve read the paperwork that came with the lens and I really don’t understand why it has this third mode, it doesn’t seem to be logical or at least from what I’m used to. But I think this is in fact what’s going on I’m going to mess with it some more today and post some pictures later but I’m hoping I have found the culprit.

The dealer I bought my 500pf from is a pro photographer and instructor in Idaho Falls, Idaho. He suggests to people, and used me as a model in a class years ago, to shoot the way I do when hand holding. I also put the Hejnar replacement foot that @Steve recommended on the 5http://www.hejnarphotostore.com/product-p/h129..htm it is not only more secure but it is longer and arca swiss ready. I use a target rifle hold and I rest the lens tripod foot in the palm of my hand ... I do not grip the foot but just rest it there. With my elbow tucked into my side under the lens I am in target rifle mode and it is very stable yet as in shooting a shotgun with your foot that is under the arm supporting the lens forward and pointed at your target with your other foot pulled back you are ready to pan with birds in flight. This gives me a more stable platform with less muscle twitch and at the same time helps keep your hand and fingers away from the focus rings. Many lenses have this same issue.

 

[sh1209]

The dealer I bought my 500pf from is a pro photographer and instructor in Idaho Falls, Idaho. He suggests to people, and used me as a model in a class years ago, to shoot the way I do when hand holding. I also put the Hejnar replacement foot that @Steve recommended on the 5http://www.hejnarphotostore.com/product-p/h129..htm it is not only more secure but it is longer and arca swiss ready. I use a target rifle hold and I rest the lens tripod foot in the palm of my hand ... I do not grip the foot but just rest it there. With my elbow tucked into my side under the lens I am in target rifle mode and it is very stable yet as in shooting a shotgun with your foot that is under the arm supporting the lens forward and pointed at your target with your other foot pulled back you are ready to pan with birds in flight. This gives me a more stable platform with less muscle twitch and at the same time helps keep your hand and fingers away from the focus rings. Many lenses have this same issue.

Certainly need to get some more practice with it. I did just purchase a Kirk replacement foot which is super nice compared to the one that comes on the lens. Some of the Z lenses are pretty touchy with the focus ring as well but in the center position on this 500 PF it is super sensitive to the touch. I’m going to leave it in the forward position which requires more movement of the ring and also try to stay away from the ring and with this new foot it should be much easier. I’m still not sure about the monopod situation with the lens because I’ve always left the VR on with the 200 to 500 but I’m not sure what the lighter lens if I should leave the VR on while on a monopod or not. i’m going to continue to practice with it as much as I can but I certainly like the lens so far. For someone that has two screwed up elbows it’s certainly wonderful to have a longer lens I can hold comfortably now.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I’ve never tried anything other than photoshop and Lightroom. I do have luminar 4 but haven’t tried it in images with a large amount of noise.

I have Steves video series on noise reduction in camera and in post using LR and PS. I as also have Topaz denoise AI but have only used it very few times as I can almost always do any noise reduction I want in LR and Topaz denoise AI yields huge files. Disclaimer different people have different tolerances for "noise" I have been know to add grain into some B&W processed images. Here are a couple of examples of hand held shots while out testing the 500 pf on my new D6. Images opened in Nikon View NX-i and converted to jpg there for comaprison in LR but then the raw processed with LR only. Both Manual with auto iso Cooper's hawk was 1/1600 sec f/7.1 ISO 3600 +1 EV (low light with brighter sky behind the bird). The Great Blue Heron was in combo shade and sunshine shot through streamside vegetation at 1/3200 Sec f/7.1, ISO 7200 0EV (I was looking for a BIF opportunity to test the camera and lens combo on ... did not get one hence the high shutter speed ... but I ended up with a higher ISO test for LR.

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[Ken Miracle]

Certainly need to get some more practice with it. I did just purchase a Kirk replacement foot which is super nice compared to the one that comes on the lens. Some of the Z lenses are pretty touchy with the focus ring as well but in the center position on this 500 PF it is super sensitive to the touch. I’m going to leave it in the forward position which requires more movement of the ring and also try to stay away from the ring and with this new foot it should be much easier. I’m still not sure about the monopod situation with the lens because I’ve always left the VR on with the 200 to 500 but I’m not sure what the lighter lens if I should leave the VR on while on a monopod or not. i’m going to continue to practice with it as much as I can but I certainly like the lens so far. For someone that has two screwed up elbows it’s certainly wonderful to have a longer lens I can hold comfortably now.

I do leave the 500pf in A/M (forward position) the M/A does not really have a purpose for what I use the lens for. I am quite blessed to only have a little injury arthritis in my left thumb. Also lucky to have shot target rifles and shotguns since I was 12 years old until a couple of years ago when I switched to camera only. Blessed that at 72 I can still hand hold my 95.2 ounce Sigma 60-600 sport ... which I find easier to hold steady than the 500 PF (weight forward target rifle stuff) and at this point is my favorite on my D6.

 

[Ken Miracle]

Use the VR sport Setting. Much more consistent than the normal setting. When using the normal setting the single point focus box has a tendency to jump around. Steve has explained this in past post and I have experienced it personally. If you set your picture review settings to show location of the focus point at time of shutter release, that will also help in your analysis. When I reviewed my photos in camera, many times the focusing point was off the mark after experiencing this movement of the focus point while using the normal VR setting. I never had this happen to me when using the Sport setting.

Thanks for the reminder on @Steve recommendation to use sport vr mode on 500pf most of the time !! I had not used my 500pf much for a bit and had forgotten !

 

[sh1209]

I have Steves video series on noise reduction in camera and in post using LR and PS. I as also have Topaz denoise AI but have only used it very few times as I can almost always do any noise reduction I want in LR and Topaz denoise AI yields huge files. Disclaimer different people have different tolerances for "noise" I have been know to add grain into some B&W processed images. Here are a couple of examples of hand held shots while out testing the 500 pf on my new D6. Images opened in Nikon View NX-i and converted to jpg there for comaprison in LR but then the raw processed with LR only. Both Manual with auto iso Cooper's hawk was 1/1600 sec f/7.1 ISO 3600 +1 EV (low light with brighter sky behind the bird). The Great Blue Heron was in combo shade and sunshine shot through streamside vegetation at 1/3200 Sec f/7.1, ISO 7200 0EV (I was looking for a BIF opportunity to test the camera and lens combo on ... did not get one hence the high shutter speed ... but I ended up with a higher ISO test for LR.View attachment 15112View attachment 15113

Beautiful images

 

[Neil H.]

I think composition may be the biggest problem in some of your bird images. If a bird (Passerine) is perfectly side on and the head is turned 2-3 degrees towards you, the tip of the beak, the birds' eye and the side of the bird will probably all be in sharp focus as they will be very close to the same plane (from the teachings of Arthur Morris). It is particularly tough if the bird is facing away (several of your images). Also, if the bird fills the frame you will need to stop down. Try setting a fast shutter and float the iso and see what happens with sharpness.

 

[AJCaiado]

I’ve heard him say that before regarding the shutter speed but my question is, how do you clean that up in post. Even at 6400 iso in my z6, z7 and the d850 I had prior to these bodies the images were just about unusable at 6400 and above. I use Lightroom and photoshop and no matter how you approach removing the noise you really start losing detail well before the noise is corrected. I realize some noise is fine especially if you don’t get an image but especially with the d850 the images were terrible at 6400 or at least to me anyhow.

Use Topaz Denise. You will be surprised with the outstanding results in noise removal. You have a free trial for 30 days.

 

[Ken Miracle]

@sh1209 Noise reduction .... I use LR almost exclusively for noise reduction after watching @Steve noise reduction video series and LR improvements since he did those. My first step is to in the presence panel I use the texture slider for most of my sharpening needs and very little clarity. In the detail pane I use care with sharpening but with the advent of the masking slider in that pane LR went to a whole new level and I have presets I deveolped to get me started for each camera body and that does all I want in most cases. If I still see noise I want to reduce I have a preset I made for the noise reduction sliders that gets me started or there all in one click it is luminance 24 Detali 86 and color 40 detail 80.

My wife shoots a Z50 and does all her processing including noise reduction inn View NX-i and Nikon Capture NX-D with excellent results.

As I noted I do have Topaz Denoise Ai and it can work well but it can loose detail just like any other method of noise reduction. Why @Steve in his noise reduction video series always recommends doing all you can with you set up angles and camera settings to avoid it ... especially in shadows under wings etc.. Because Topaz Denoise Ai is an added step, can be tricky to get right so you do not loose detail and yields huge files I use it only as a last resort. I just searched my LR catalog and found 2 images that I had saved after using topaz Denoise Ai one is printed and a contest winner the other is a contest winner that was for an on line judging. I use only Light Room 99% of the time and have used @Steve photo shop noise reduction a small hand-full of times but I seldom use photo shop for anything and have not for over a year now.

 

[sh1209]

@sh1209 Noise reduction .... I use LR almost exclusively for noise reduction after watching @Steve noise reduction video series and LR improvements since he did those. My first step is to in the presence panel I use the texture slider for most of my sharpening needs and very little clarity. In the detail pane I use care with sharpening but with the advent of the masking slider in that pane LR went to a whole new level and I have presets I deveolped to get me started for each camera body and that does all I want in most cases. If I still see noise I want to reduce I have a preset I made for the noise reduction sliders that gets me started or there all in one click it is luminance 24 Detali 86 and color 40 detail 80.

My wife shoots a Z50 and does all her processing including noise reduction inn View NX-i and Nikon Capture NX-D with excellent results.

As I noted I do have Topaz Denoise Ai and it can work well but it can loose detail just like any other method of noise reduction. Why @Steve in his noise reduction video series always recommends doing all you can with you set up angles and camera settings to avoid it ... especially in shadows under wings etc.. Because Topaz Denoise Ai is an added step, can be tricky to get right so you do not loose detail and yields huge files I use it only as a last resort. I just searched my LR catalog and found 2 images that I had saved after using topaz Denoise Ai one is printed and a contest winner the other is a contest winner that was for an on line judging. I use only Light Room 99% of the time and have used @Steve photo shop noise reduction a small hand-full of times but I seldom use photo shop for anything and have not for over a year now.

Thanks I really appreciate the info. I will buy his course today and watch it. I’ve used the methods you’re referring to but perhaps watching his video can shed some light in some shortcomings of my approach. I’ve used the noise filter in photoshop some as well and it’s good also. My problem mainly lies with the z7 files as well as my former d850. With those high MP files I’ve had no luck at all cleaning up anything north of 5000iso. I can get a decent image in the z6 file up to 6400iso. Perhaps my approach just needs to be revamped and hopefully I’ll learn some new tricks with his video. You mentioned your wife has a z50. I had one of those a year and sold it. I’ve regretted it ever since lol. That camera and the kit lenses are phenomenal in good light. The afc IMO is as good or even better than the z6. I’ve considered getting another one but have wanted to see if they come out with a d500 replacement.

 

[Ken Miracle]

Thanks I really appreciate the info. I will buy his course today and watch it. I’ve used the methods you’re referring to but perhaps watching his video can shed some light in some shortcomings of my approach. I’ve used the noise filter in photoshop some as well and it’s good also. My problem mainly lies with the z7 files as well as my former d850. With those high MP files I’ve had no luck at all cleaning up anything north of 5000iso. I can get a decent image in the z6 file up to 6400iso. Perhaps my approach just needs to be revamped and hopefully I’ll learn some new tricks with his video. You mentioned your wife has a z50. I had one of those a year and sold it. I’ve regretted it ever since lol. That camera and the kit lenses are phenomenal in good light. The afc IMO is as good or even better than the z6. I’ve considered getting another one but have wanted to see if they come out with a d500 replacement.

I agree the D850 when it needs noise reduction is a bigger challenge than my D4S was or my D500 or now my D6 ... I cleaned my first D6 low light test shot up at 51,200 using just LR and it was a small ornament with a prayer printed on paper shot indoors and was a great test. My wife has only used her kit lens once. She put her Tamron 18-400 on it and has only taken it off to clean her contacts occasionally.

 

[sh1209]

I agree the D850 when it needs noise reduction is a bigger challenge than my D4S was or my D500 or now my D6 ... I cleaned my first D6 low light test shot up at 51,200 using just LR and it was a small ornament with a prayer printed on paper shot indoors and was a great test. My wife has only used her kit lens once. She put her Tamron 18-400 on it and has only taken it off to clean her contacts occasionally.

That’s certainly impressive to be able to clean up a file, even a 20mp file like that with an iso that high. I bet the d6 is awesome for nailing in flight shots.

 

[DripDryMcFleye]

Lately I've been shooting small birds with my 500PF. All hand held. I was having a lot of trouble with the lens focusing on twigs instead of birds. When possible I would adjust focus manually but then press the shutter release and the lens would promptly refocus on the twig. Decided to RTFM. Found out that you have to maintain your half press of shutter while you adjust focus manually or auto takes over again when you shoot.

As the OP has said, I too noticed that I was sometimes rotating the focus ring unintentionally. My solution to that issue was to rotate the lens mount collar so that the foot is at the top of the lens. I put my hand under the foot so that the lens is kind of hanging from my left hand. In other words, I'm using the foot as a hook to hang it on. There are two models of Hejnar replacement foot for this lens. I have the longer one and that's the one I would recommend. With my hand located as described I can still rotate the focus ring quite nicely with my little finger if I want. I have the lens set to M/a (the middle position) and have been getting better results than previously. I am also using sport mode VR lately.

 

[sh1209]

Lately I've been shooting small birds with my 500PF. All hand held. I was having a lot of trouble with the lens focusing on twigs instead of birds. When possible I would adjust focus manually but then press the shutter release and the lens would promptly refocus on the twig. Decided to RTFM. Found out that you have to maintain your half press of shutter while you adjust focus manually or auto takes over again when you shoot.

As the OP has said, I too noticed that I was sometimes rotating the focus ring unintentionally. My solution to that issue was to rotate the lens mount collar so that the foot is at the top of the lens. I put my hand under the foot so that the lens is kind of hanging from my left hand. In other words, I'm using the foot as a hook to hang it on. There are two models of Hejnar replacement foot for this lens. I have the longer one and that's the one I would recommend. With my hand located as described I can still rotate the focus ring quite nicely with my little finger if I want. I have the lens set to M/a (the middle position) and have been getting better results than previously. I am also using sport mode VR lately.

Thanks for the reply. I purchased a Kirk foot for the lens, which makes it much more user friendly. I’m finally starting to get used to the lens but that focusing issue the first few days was extremely frustrating. It still seems that my my 200-500 for whatever reason is lightly more forgiving when handheld but I’ve only had this 500pf for a week. I’m sure with time it will definitely surpass the 200-500.

 

[Ken Miracle]

That’s certainly impressive to be able to clean up a file, even a 20mp file like that with an iso that high. I bet the d6 is awesome for nailing in flight shots.

just for the fun of it here is that first D6 500pf test shot indoors at night ... manual auto iso auto wb natural light f/5.6, 1/1250 I kept pushing the shutter speed up until I hit 51,200 where I had my D6 stopped out in auto ISO ... so okay for the martian landing in the back yard 20.8 mp sensor gave me a 30.96 MB raw file for this shot.

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