600mm vs. 400mm+TC14

[cmc4214]

I am seriously considering purchase of a used 600 f4E lens, or a 400f2.8 plus a TC 1.4. The latter would be more versatile, but I am worried about image quality with the TC.
If anyone has real world experience with this combo, I would like to hear your comments.
I know that there is some image quality loss with TCs, but is it enough to be concerned about?
( I am not a pixel peeper, but I do value image quality)

 

[ARClark]

I am seriously considering purchase of a used 600 f4E lens, or a 400f2.8 plus a TC 1.4. The latter would be more versatile, but I am worried about image quality with the TC.
If anyone has real world experience with this combo, I would like to hear your comments.
I know that there is some image quality loss with TCs, but is it enough to be concerned about?
( I am not a pixel peeper, but I do value image quality)

I am not speaking from first hand experience. I own a 500E and TCs, so I’m generally familiar with the IQ of the E series. But from my readings and various reviews of the two lenses (assuming 400E), IQ would not be the major factor in your decision. Both combos and lenses are so good that I’d decide more on the focal range you shoot most and whether the f2.8 aperture is a priority. If 800mm and longer is important, I’d lean towards the 600, but if having a faster lens and wider field of view, I’d lean towards the 400. In getting the 500E, I split the difference for the lighter weight and easier handholdability of the 500.

 

[cmc4214]

I am not speaking from first hand experience. I own a 500E and TCs, so I’m generally familiar with the IQ of the E series. But from my readings and various reviews of the two lenses (assuming 400E), IQ would not be the major factor in your decision. Both combos and lenses are so good that I’d decide more on the focal range you shoot most and whether the f2.8 aperture is a priority. If 800mm and longer is important, I’d lean towards the 600, but if having a faster lens and wider field of view, I’d lean towards the 400. In getting the 500E, I split the difference for the lighter weight and easier handholdability of the 500.

Thanks, you have answered my question about IQ though what I meant was the 600 f4 alone or the 400 2.8 with a converter (which would be 560mm f4 equivalent)... If IQ wouldn't suffer with the 400+TC I would have a more versatile system for about the same money as the 600 alone.

 

[ARClark]

Thanks, you have answered my question about IQ though what I meant was the 600 f4 alone or the 400 2.8 with a converter (which would be 560mm f4 equivalent)... If IQ wouldn't suffer with the 400+TC I would have a more versatile system for about the same money as the 600 alone.

Agreed. And, if in the future you might want 680mm @ f/5.6 or 800mm @f/8, it’s only a TC away. Just curious what camera you’re using and what you shoot. I usually shoot small birds so I’m often using a 1.4x TC with my 500E for 700mm @ f/5.6 or the 800 f/6.3 PF, both on my Z8 and Z9.

 

[cmc4214]

Agreed. And, if in the future you might want 680mm @ f/5.6 or 800mm @f/8, it’s only a TC away. Just curious what camera you’re using and what you shoot. I usually shoot small birds so I’m often using a 1.4x TC with my 500E for 700mm @ f/5.6 or the 800 f/6.3 PF, both on my Z8 and Z9.

I have a D500 I'm using with a Tamron 150-600 G2, often in the woods where the f6.3 just isn't enough, and focus is very slow in the shade. I like to shoot any wildlife, mostly deer because there are so many around here (S.W. Pa.)

 

[Rjdane2]

I have the 600 f4 but seriously considering trading for a 400 2.8. The 600 is an amazing wildlife and birding lens but I take so many photos of my kids sports and now night games are killing me having to use only a 70-200.

If I was strictly shooting wildlife I would go with the 600 because I use it 90% with the tc at 800mm. I have been using it alot this year tho at f4 600 for foxes in the woods in low light.

 

[Marcelo_R]

I am seriously considering purchase of a used 600 f4E lens, or a 400f2.8 plus a TC 1.4. The latter would be more versatile, but I am worried about image quality with the TC.
If anyone has real world experience with this combo, I would like to hear your comments.
I know that there is some image quality loss with TCs, but is it enough to be concerned about?
( I am not a pixel peeper, but I do value image quality)

If you were using a Z8-Z9, the 400FL + TC14 combo wouldn't suffer from loss of focusing points (besides the obvious loss of light). And barely (if any) loss of IQ would be noticed.

But you are using a reflex body, so I'd consider the loss of focusing points above the IQ, and would take the 600/4 FL instead. No doubt.

I remember always what I've read somewhere (maybe from Steve): if you are buying a lens planning on attaching a TC for reach, you are buying a shorter lens than what you should (or somthing like that).

 

[mdirvin]

I am seriously considering purchase of a used 600 f4E lens, or a 400f2.8 plus a TC 1.4. The latter would be more versatile, but I am worried about image quality with the TC.
If anyone has real world experience with this combo, I would like to hear your comments.
I know that there is some image quality loss with TCs, but is it enough to be concerned about?
( I am not a pixel peeper, but I do value image quality)

I previously had both lens at the same time using each with and without the TC 1.4. I could not see any difference with image quality, although I have to admit I am not a pixel peeper. Any combination was excellent as far as I could see. My 400 was purchased in around 2007, one of the earlier if not the first VR versions. My 600 was in approximately 2011, then later I sold and purchased an FL version maybe 2019 mainly for the smaller lighter weight. Be aware these are big, heavy lens not like the present TC versions now available. I think the 400 was 11 pounds. It was heavier than the 600 f4.

 

[Dionigi Colombo]

I have owned and used simultaneously 400FL and 600FL, (I still have the 400 FL) the loss of quality with the Tc14 is almost imperceptible
If your use is deer and the like without a doubt 400, which is my favorite lens, you have the advantage of f/2.8 and being active animals especially at first and last light of day 1 stop brighter makes a difference

 

[bcgFollower]

I'm using the 400 FL for 2 years new (the last year on a 45MP Z8) with the TC-14eiii and TC-20eiii. I am pixel peeper and sharpness is absolutely no issue with either TC.
In my experience the TC's mainly cause two things (apart from the apparent loss of light):
1) bokeh is not as "clean" as with the bare lens but still on an excellent level (absolutely no issue I think).
2) slightly slower autofocus acquisition (probably due to the loss of light). For me this is also not really a problem as the lens is still fast enough.

In conclusion, your decision should be based on what you shoot and not on worrying about sharpness (as has been written here before).

 

[KurtH]

not on worrying about sharpness (as has been written here before).

Who doesn't worry about sharpness?

To me, the decision would come down to where I spend most of my time, focal length-wise. Both lens choices will give you superb pictures, but 400-560 and 600-840 are two distinct ranges. It would be an easy decision for me as I live predominantly in the 600+ range. Where do you spend most of your time?

 

[Tim Karels]

Who doesn't worry about sharpness?

To me, the decision would come down to where I spend most of my time, focal length-wise. Both lens choices will give you superb pictures, but 400-560 and 600-840 are two distinct ranges. It would be an easy decision for me as I live predominantly in the 600+ range. Where do you spend most of your time?

I think this is similar to what Steve as said in some of his videos. Get the lens with the focal life that you use most of the time before using a TC. If you spend most of your time at 600mm, get the 600 prime rather than a 400 2.8 with a TC constantly attached.

 

[ARClark]

I have a D500 I'm using with a Tamron 150-600 G2, often in the woods where the f6.3 just isn't enough, and focus is very slow in the shade. I like to shoot any wildlife, mostly deer because there are so many around here (S.W. Pa.)

I can see the 400 f/2.8 vs 600 f/4 being excellent for your situation, both for the low light and for the wider field of view with your DX format camera.

 

[cmc4214]

Many thanks to all who replied, you have given me the info I was looking for. I think I am going to get the 400 and the TC 1.4, I could probably afford the 600 next year IF I don't think the 400+ TC is good enough

 

[Dinusaur]

I am seriously considering purchase of a used 600 f4E lens, or a 400f2.8 plus a TC 1.4. The latter would be more versatile, but I am worried about image quality with the TC.
If anyone has real world experience with this combo, I would like to hear your comments.
I know that there is some image quality loss with TCs, but is it enough to be concerned about?
( I am not a pixel peeper, but I do value image quality)

I went through the same thought process before I purchased the 400 TC last year. I prefer hand-holding a lens and not use a tripod. 400 is lighter and smaller (portability) than the 600tc, these two factors were considered in my final decision making process. Quality wise I didn't notice any difference when internal tc is engaged versus when it is not. These days I often attach an external 1.4x tc and turn the internal tc off if a subject (e.g. Osprey) comes close and if the subject goes farther away, I then engage the internal tc to get to 744. Again, I haven't noticed any decrease in quality or focus performance. By the way I have used external 2x tc as well with no noticeable degradation in quality or focus performance. 400tc is an amazingly versatile lens.

 

[fcotterill]

Although there's are penalties using a TC, these are minimized using the 400 f2.8E FL. The caveats are to respect subject distance, minimize cropping images and be vigilant for atmospherics (And see recent Thom Hogan's commentary and also these BCG threads about TCs, and 'reach' etc).

This applies particularly to TC14 III on the 400E, but the TC2 III also pairs well, provided subjects are at realistic distances and one minimizes cropping.

All factors considered the 400 f2.8E FL Nikkor is a stunning lens, although heavy at 3.8kg. This I know very well from carry my rig off a shoulder strap over 2017-2022 on most daily walks, although used a monopod or tripod when possible. It was paired primarily with a D850 or D5. I shared some results here.

 

[bcgFollower]

Who doesn't worry about sharpness?

Those who bought a good super telephoto lens (like for example the 400 FL) and optionally pair it with the 1.4x or 2x TC.

Seriously, I worried about lens sharpness when I had the Tamron 150-600 on a 45 MP Z7 or when I paired my 500 PF with a 2x TC (where diffraction destroys sharpness). But once I moved to the big primes (or PFs with appropriate TCs), sharpness degradations due to lens quality just became an absolute non-issue (and I am picky guy!). Now atmospherics etc. are the biggest enemies ..

 

[mdirvin]

These days I often attach an external 1.4x tc and turn the internal tc off if a subject (e.g. Osprey) comes close and if the subject goes farther away, I then engage the internal tc to get to 744.

Now that is a little trick I hadn't even thought about. I'll have to give it a try...