Auto Shutter Speed - Well Lit / Static

[Don_Logan]

Hello!

This occurred with me in practice the other day and wanted to make sure I was not missing something....

Conditions: daylight with ample lighting: Normally, I shoot Manual with Auto ISO when walking about the park. When taking Macro shots of flowers or other stationary objects, I often battle to select the right shutter speed to keep the ISO down. Once I find where the ISO is down and the exposure meter is centered I take the photo........

^ On accident, I switched to Auto Shutter Speed ( Is still controlled aperture) and it seemed great(!?) Why? Because it kept my ISO all the way down and picked shutter speed itself - often far more than I would have thought needed, and so high that even if I wanted to catch a person/kid in action it would have been more than fine. By doing so it kept everything well in balance. The results were ISO at its lowest and a well metered shot. So what am I missing here? I feel like there is a catch?

I understand that if someone is looking for an artistic shot in some way, they may want to be in control of that. I also understand that I am getting away with this due to great light. The camera might choose a shutter speed far too low in poor light resulting in blurry photos - especially with moving objects. In this situation you would need the ISO go high as to not sacrifice the shot potentially along with a shutter speed higher than the camera thinks you need.

But in bright sun or bright overcast auto shutter seemed to be the ticket for static objects - again unless I am missing something?

Thank you

 

[DRwyoming]

Shooting in Aperture Priority mode where you choose aperture and the camera chooses shutter speed or Shutter Priority mode (the opposite) is fine and perfectly valid. It’s how many of us shot for decades before ISO capabilities of cameras improved so much. The downside side is you yield one of your prime creative controls to the camera’s programming.

I much prefer Manual with auto ISO as I maintain control over the two primary creative controls ( shutter speed to freeze or blur motion and aperture to determine DoF) and within reason let the camera choose ISO. In many modern cameras it’s just not that important to maintain the lowest possible ISO unless your scene and lighting demand every possible bit of dynamic range which is rarely necessary.

Sure no matter what exposure mode you shoot in you’ll want to keep an eye on the three exposure parameters (aperture, shutter speed and ISO) but personally I prefer to set the two that give me the most creative control and can’t really be changed in post and let the camera pick the one that can easily be adjusted in post.

That said if you prefer to run in Aperture or Shutter Priority or full Auto modes there’s no problem with that approach.

 

[Viathelens]

I think it all comes down to what you want to achieve and how you want to achieve it using whatever tools you have. There is no one way to take a shot and exploring the camera tools available to you are important as you then learn what they can do and when you might choose to use them. Like Dave above I shoot in manual and in variable light in auto-ISO and this way I can control either aperture or shutter speed based on my needs and I let the ISO "fall where it may," as the saying goes. I'm not overly concerned with having very low ISOs but more often concerned with can I get a sharp shoot of a subject in motion. Assess the situation and use the best tools for the job.

 

[EricKlees]

For me, I shoot full manual, no Auto ISO. The camera tends to get fooled far to often and easily so I control it all. I have shot full manual now for about 5 years or so. It's even more important now with dual gain sensors like the Z9 and Z8 which have 2 base ISO's of ISO64 and ISO500. So I don't want the camera moving the ISO to say ISO320 or 400 or 640. I want full control and with today's Z lenses with the control ring. It's now like cheating being able to control the ISO on the fly with my left hand thumb.

It is very easy to also set my ISO and change the shutter speed when I have plenty of SS. I can easily jump from 1/2000 to 1/6400 while shooting when I have plenty of SS. On overcast days I have no problem going as high as ISO12,800 if need be.

 

[bleirer]

To me they are just different facets of the same gem, once one understands the underlying principles. Aperture priority, sure, just keep an eye on what shutter speed and iso are doing and what's happening with the blinkies and/or histogram. Same with shutter priority and same with manual with auto iso or just plain manual.

I guess these days I shoot manual with auto iso to start and use EC to control the blinkies, but once I get an idea about the brightness of my scene I often switch to full manual.

I guess I'm saying its all good if you understand it, nothing works if you don't.

 

[EricBowles]

My approach is similar to the others here. I use full manual with a fixed ISO most of the time. If the light or subject location requires a quick change in exposure, I press the ISO button and rotate the front control wheel to invoke Auto ISO. In some locations, I might set up Auto ISO with Exposure Comp in advance to try to anticipate a subject in variable shade rather than full sun.

My reasoning is similar to others - I normally want to control DOF with a clean background and a wide open or near wide open background. This supports a faster shutter speed and lower ISO. My shutter speed is set based on the lens and subject matter - static subjects depend on focal length, VR, and light while moving subjects depend on the subject and it's speed. My ISO is the plug figure that makes the exposure work. Because matrix metering considers the background in setting exposure, Auto ISO may result in an incorrect exposure if the background is light or dark. For a flying subject, a single pass can include everything from bright sky or sun to deep shade - even though the subject is in the same light the entire time. If the light on the subject is the same, the exposure should be the same.

 

[David Berry]

In bright sun or bright overcast auto shutter seemed to be the ticket for static objects – again unless I am missing something?

Don, do I understand the situation correctly?

Don Logan's settings (Z8):

• aperture : manual
• shutter : auto
• ISO : manual
• ± EC : manual

David Berry's settings (R5):

• aperture : manual
• shutter : manual
• ISO : auto
• ± EC : manual

In the way that I have set up my camera, each of the four settings can be altered by rotating a different dedicated dial/ring with no need to press a button first.

… David

 

[AlanB313]

Shooting in Aperture Priority mode where you choose aperture and the camera chooses shutter speed or Shutter Priority mode (the opposite) is fine and perfectly valid. It’s how many of us shot for decades before ISO capabilities of cameras improved so much. The downside side is you yield one of your prime creative controls to the camera’s programming.

I much prefer Manual with auto ISO as I maintain control over the two primary creative controls ( shutter speed to freeze or blur motion and aperture to determine DoF) and within reason let the camera choose ISO. In many modern cameras it’s just not that important to maintain the lowest possible ISO unless your scene and lighting demand every possible bit of dynamic range which is rarely necessary.

Sure no matter what exposure mode you shoot in you’ll want to keep an eye on the three exposure parameters (aperture, shutter speed and ISO) but personally I prefer to set the two that give me the most creative control and can’t really be changed in post and let the camera pick the one that can easily be adjusted in post.

That said if you prefer to run in Aperture or Shutter Priority or full Auto modes there’s no problem with that approach.

I'm mostly using manual with auto iso (with limits) for moving subjects. I watch what happening in the bottom of my viewfinder and if I don't like what the settings are producing, I'll switch to full manual. I watch the histograms.
I've found I can trust what auto iso is doing on my d500 much more than the d7200. The limits need to be lower on the d7200.
Really paying attention to the 3 elements is helping me learn.
I have a button programmed for spot metering when I want the background to not figure into the metering as much, as it does with matrix.
Still learning a lot with the dslrs but looking forward to more advanced features.

 

[DRwyoming]

I have a button programmed for spot metering when I want the background to not figure into the metering as much, as it does with matrix.
Still learning a lot with the dslrs but looking forward to more advanced features.

Spot metering in an auto exposure mode can work great with relatively static subjects as long as you can keep the spot metering area right where you want it. It can cause problems with action subjects if tracking slips and the spot metering slips from say a flying white bird to a dark background.

FWIW the most common way I use spot metering is to quickly set ISO when shooting full manual with manual ISO. I’ll spot meter a neutral toned area or area of known tone in the same light as expected subjects and fix the ISO based on that spot metering check. Then if the light is stable and the subjects appear in the same light I metered I can just shoot away regardless of subject tone, background tone or size of subject in the frame. This doesn’t work as well if the light is changing quickly like when clouds are rolling through but it’s awesome for flying birds in relatively stable light.

For instance it’s often easy to spot meter on green summer grass or the gray wood of a weathered dead tree or wooden fence post. Those are pretty close to neutral tone and make good spot metering targets. Use something like that to set ISO or something brighter or darker and offset the ISO setting accordingly. Then as long as the light is steady and the subjects are lit by that light we can shoot away without worrying about exposure comp for changing subject or background tones.

IOW if the light is changing a lot I shoot in manual with auto ISO and use exposure comp as needed. If the light is stable but the subject or
Background tones are changing a lot I’ll shoot full manual with manual ISO and pre meter off of something with known tonality, this is where I find spot metering most handy.

And if everything is changing fast: light levels, subject tones and background tones then either method works as I’ll either be changing ISO on the fly a lot or changing exposure comp a lot. No real easy answer when everything is changing but that’s one place where the WYSIWYG viewfinder and real time histogram in mirrorless cameras is super handy.

 

[AlanB313]

Spot metering in an auto exposure mode can work great with relatively static subjects as long as you can keep the spot metering area right where you want it. It can cause problems with action subjects if tracking slips and the spot metering slips from say a flying white bird to a dark background.

FWIW the most common way I use spot metering is to quickly set ISO when shooting full manual with manual ISO. I’ll spot meter a neutral toned area or area of known tone in the same light as expected subjects and fix the ISO based on that spot metering check. Then if the light is stable and the subjects appear in the same light I metered I can just shoot away regardless of subject tone, background tone or size of subject in the frame. This doesn’t work as well if the light is changing quickly like when clouds are rolling through but it’s awesome for flying birds in relatively stable light.

For instance it’s often easy to spot meter on green summer grass or the gray wood of a weathered dead tree or wooden fence post. Those are pretty close to neutral tone and make good spot metering targets. Use something like that to set ISO or something brighter or darker and offset the ISO setting accordingly. Then as long as the light is steady and the subjects are lit by that light we can shoot away without worrying about exposure comp for changing subject or background tones.

IOW if the light is changing a lot I shoot in manual with auto ISO and use exposure comp as needed. If the light is stable but the subject or
Background tones are changing a lot I’ll shoot full manual with manual ISO and pre meter off of something with known tonality, this is where I find spot metering most handy.

And if everything is changing fast: light levels, subject tones and background tones then either method works as I’ll either be changing ISO on the fly a lot or changing exposure comp a lot. No real easy answer when everything is changing but that’s one place where the WYSIWYG viewfinder and real time histogram in mirrorless cameras is super handy.

There's a lot to unpack here, thanks! I'm using spot metering like you mentioned to check for the right iso, but didn't think of immediately changing to that level and fixing it there. I'm also using exp compensation the way you mentioned.

I'm starting to feel more in control in terms of getting the results I'm after which feels great. But I have a lot to learn and I'm having fun doing it.

A real-time histogram sounds great. I have to look at the back of my camera.
Thanks again!

 

[bleirer]

There's a lot to unpack here, thanks! I'm using spot metering like you mentioned to check for the right iso, but didn't think of immediately changing to that level and fixing it there. I'm also using exp compensation the way you mentioned.

I'm starting to feel more in control in terms of getting the results I'm after which feels great. But I have a lot to learn and I'm having fun doing it.

A real-time histogram sounds great. I have to look at the back of my camera.
Thanks again!

I believe your camera has blinkies? Needs a test shot though.

 

[AlanB313]

I believe your camera has blinkies? Needs a test shot though.

Thanks, I'll try on both of my cameras, d500 and d7200. Trying to not blow out highlights is something I was very aware of on my last trip. There were lots of white or light colored flowers on difficult backgrounds. I had mixed success. I'll try to post a few soon.

 

[Don_Logan]

Sorry for the delayed response, I had have been on the run the past week.

This thread was started not as a question of "general rule of thumb" what to use, but only in bright situations with static (or moving I suppose) images.

Also, this was with my Q3, however I do not think it makes any difference since we are just talking fundamentals here (?).....

In very bright sunlight, with Auto shutter, the ISO would stay pegged at 100, I could control the aperture to my liking and the camera would choose shutter. With bright light, this seemed to work well. Why? Because 1) Camera would keep the ISO as low as it thought it could go 2) I can still pick my DOF 3) the camera could instantly pick my shutter, which due to the abundance of light was always 1/500 or more, making it work for all situations including walking humans.

The question was, am I missing something? I think the answer is no.

---

In poor lit situations the above can be thrown out the window. The camera will bring the shutter speed down wayyy too much causing blur. You would want control of the shutter in those cases (70% of the time for me) and let the camera pick the iso. For most situations I am manual + Auto ISO

Thank you for the replies.