Best Nikon Longer Lens Combination - Help Please

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Hello All,

This is my first post but I have been following the website site for 18 months plus and the forum from launch. Steve, very glad you are ok and I have found your books x 3 [so far] excellent

I have been building my Nikon kit and now have two bodies, D500 [which I love] and recently a D850 [still learning] after trading in a D7100 last October. I have been able to buy the following lenses used; 24-70 2.8 VR, 70-200 2.8 VRII, 300 2.8 VRII, 200-500 5.6 VR and will add 16-35 VR f/4 at some point. I also own T/C 1.4 II and T/C 2.0 III. My interest is focused on wildlife [mammals more than birds] but when visiting anywhere / on holiday the camera is attached to my hand so need the shorter lenses.

Ok, to my question out of the following five lenses how would you all range these in order of priority 1,2 3 to cover all of my needs?

Nikon 300 PF f/4
Nikon 500 PF f/5.6
Nikon 200-400 f/4 VRII
Nikon 300 f/2.8
Nikon 200-500 f/5.6

Lastly how does everyone feel about using T/C or should I just crop for the best IQ

Hope you can help with your views?

Andy [aka Nobby]
 
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Patrick,

Thank you for your reply, I am starting to think about trading in the 200-500 f/5.6 to put towards a 500 5.6 PF and not sure if i should let the 300 2.8 VR II go and replace with a 300 f/4 PF

As to T/C I am starting to believe that cropping is better and maybe I don't need these to protect IQ
 
The 300mm F2.8 is in a different league than the F4 PF, the 2.8 has no noticeable image degradation from TC 1.4/1.7 use, but it does have some weight to it. With TC use it can become any of those lenses, other than having the 200 on the short end.

I'd put the 300 F2.8 and 500mm PF on the same image quality level, everything else is just second or third rate to be honest. If I could have both I would.
 
I either own or have owned all of the lenses you listed. The 300 2.8 is the best of the lot with the 500 PF a close second. IQ of the 200-500 is just as good as the 200-400 VR2 and it's lighter. The only ones I'd put a TC on are the 300 PF and 300 2.8. I've done a bit of testing and on any of the others cropping results are just as good as using the TC. One exception is that I've not tried a TC on the 500 PF.
 
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I'd say you already have quite a good kit with the 300mm f/2.8 being the superstar of the bunch. Unless you struggle with the size and weight (e.g. travel or long hikes) with the 300mm f/2.8 I don't see a lot of reason to pick up a 300mm f/4. Don't get me wrong the 300mm f/4 is a stellar lens but the 300mm f/2.8 is a bit better in every department except size and weight. The 200-500mm might be a good addition to your kit if you find yourself needing the flexibility of a zoom which is a definite possibility with larger mammals.

I really loved my 200-400mm f/4 assuming I could work at close distances, for instance working from blinds or working approachable larger mammals but when focused at longer distances the lens just didn't deliver and it really didn't take teleconverters well. But for close in work it was stellar and again very flexible from a composition standpoint.

I personally use a 1.4x teleconverter quite a bit but as posted above it's best to save it for use on your highest quality prime lenses although the TC-14 iii works pretty well on the newest 70-200mm f/2.8 E-FL lens (which isn't on your list). The 300mm f/2.8 is the only lens on your current list where I'd consider using a 2x TC and then I'd want the TC-20 iii as it's noticeably better than Nikon's older 2x teleconverters, if you do pick up a 300mm PF lens it also takes a TC-14 iii very nicely.

Personally I think your current kit is quite good for larger mammal work with the 300mm f/2.8 being the go-to of the kit for that kind of work. If your current kit doesn't fill all your needs the big question is what's lacking? Is it the weight of the larger lenses or overall kit? If so, a 300mm PF or 500mm PF might be a nice addition. If it's flexibility in framing your shots then the 200-500mm or 200-400mm (if you can work from reasonably short distances) might be a good choice. If it's 'reach' then think about a 600mm lens or at least a 500mm f/4 lens that will take a TC well. But overall it sounds like you've got a great large mammal kit with support for landscapes and other photo uses (e.g. human portraits).
 
The more you read, the more you think about new kit, very happy with the 300 2.8 on it own but IQ has not always been great when used with the 1.4 II TC and never with the 2.0 III TC [more than likely my technique on my Gitzo monopod as I don't own a tripod]

The 500 f/5.6 PF looks interesting but I will need to trade in the 200-500 f/5.6 to cover some of the cost and start saving

The thinking on the longer lens is driven by a booked Masai Mari safari in October held over from last year and more than likely going to be moved back again

Very happy with my D500, D850, 24-70 2.8 , 70-200 2.8

Thank you all for sharing your views
 
The thinking on the longer lens is driven by a booked Masai Mari safari in October held over from last year and more than likely going to be moved back again
I'd keep a telephoto zoom lens in the kit for safari work from a vehicle as subject sizes and working distances can vary quite a bit and the zoom is very handy for that.
 
Which lenses for Africa is a regular topic. One not only has to consider image quality but performance with a TC(s) and not least ergonomics. The latter includes flying.

Thom Hogan also has some guidelines on aspects of travel etc mainly Botswana which is similar in many aspects.

Some of us in African savannas hike to find subjects, as much as/more than from a vehicle. So more reach is often important unless one is relying on stealth for close ups etc. I carry either a 800mm rig [400 f2.8E+TC2] with a D850, or a 500 PF with TC14 as backup to be lighter. And I try have 2 rigs (70-200 f2.8E or 300 PF on one camera with longer telephoto on the other). On longer trips I also have a 18-35 G and 58 1.4G, and a Micro-Nikkor at least, sometimes more UWIde options for landscapes. Packing depends on where and how and for how long.... When feasible, I plan to upgrade/expand the latter to a Z 14-30 f4S and 24-105 S.

As to which focal lengths, model etc it is easy to get overwhelmed with the options and also the flood of all-knowing advice. I suggest spend some time on your research. The sites to rely on (besides Steve's) include Brad Hill's, Thom Hogan's and also Photography Life reviews by Nasim Mansurov and technique articles.
300mm is fine for many larger mammal subjects in Africa. The TC's are often vital to extend a telephoto as only one heavy lens is practical to fly and carry. For birds 500mm is often the minimum; 600 is better; 800 even better..... Remember IQ with a respective TC and its lens drops off significantly with subject distance (beyond ~30 usually and 40m at most). However, I've never tested a 800 f5.6E + bespoke TC125 for IQ vs subject distance in the bush (I keep looking for a sponsor for this one!)

When the dust as settled, the 70-200 f2.8E seems to be the best zoom out there with TC14 III, not so good with TC2 III (but it can work in a squeeze). IME my copy TC17II on this lens is useless, but this may well be copy variation, which is reported with Nikon's teleconverters. Oh and the few reports, only Brad Hill actually, also say glowing reports on the new pricey 120-300 f2.8E FL SR.

So yes, another big plus for the 300 f2.8G. It is a superb optic, especially as Nikon optimized its VR II model with the latest TC2 III (read about it in Nasim's reviews on PL) so you have your 600 f5.6. It is also easier to handhold than the heavier rigs, although compared to a 400 f2.8E, the 300 is actually more end heavy (as is the extended 200-500 IMHO). My 300 gave many keepers, and I bought both TC2 and 300 f2.8G used and 2 years later got a decent tradein deal on the lens.

The 300 PF is yet another excellent option, one of the most versatile lens yet made in the history of photography. But it's pushing it at 600 f8, however. I always try to have my 300 PF in the bag. The benefits have been rhapsodized about many times including very good IQ with TC14 III and surprisingly (to me) TC17 II. It also great for closeups of plants and larger insects, herps etc, which can be refined/tightened up with an Ext ring.

It sounds like you are already very well equipped. I often use the 70-200+TC14 III as a backup/alternative, with the 400 for reach and its sui generis is the high TCF and decent IQ with all 3 TCs. But besides big expense it's more 1kg to fly with and deploy above. As we know the D500 with D850 is an unbeatable combination unless one really has to have decent silent-shooting.

So to cut the waffle, get a 300 f2.8G VRII with TC14 III and TC2 III. But if you can afford it, the other option is a 500 PF. This will also deliver very very well. Again, either telephoto will pair very well with your 70-200 f2.8. Never underestimate the 200-500 either - probably the biggest bang for the buck for wildlife, and it is popular across Africa too.

Last but definitely NOT least - etc, Test and AFFT the rigs with each TC on a standard target, then go out and Field Test and Practice, if possible shoot anything out there every day. Enjoy

The more you read, the more you think about new kit, very happy with the 300 2.8 on it own but IQ has not always been great when used with the 1.4 II TC and never with the 2.0 III TC [more than likely my technique on my Gitzo monopod as I don't own a tripod]

The 500 f/5.6 PF looks interesting but I will need to trade in the 200-500 f/5.6 to cover some of the cost and start saving

The thinking on the longer lens is driven by a booked Masai Mari safari in October held over from last year and more than likely going to be moved back again

Very happy with my D500, D850, 24-70 2.8 , 70-200 2.8

Thank you all for sharing your views
 
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The 24-70 for travelling and go anywhere, the 500 for wildlife with the converter. There’s a thread somewhere on these, but I think rather 1.4 is very good. The only 2x I have is the new z version which is excellent by the way.
hope this helps

i used the 200-500 for many photo trips, but it’s a heavy old thing. Hence the 500 prime is preferable.
Speaking of TCs...I’m wondering whether the 2.0 or 1.4 is a better fit for me. I’ll be keeping my 500PF on my D7500 for now and ordered the Z 70-200 for my Z7II and will carry both on outings. Since the 500 is effectively a 750 on the DX that gives me a pretty big gap in focal length although the 70-200 is effectively a 300 in DX mode on the 7II. im wondering whether the 1.4 or 2.0 TC is a better option...one obviously has more reach at the cost of more aperture loss and the 2.0 generally is rated as not quite as good as the 1.4 in IQ but still very good. Just wondering what thoughts y’all might have...I will also have the 24-70/f4 Z mount but for wildlife outings it will not be on t(e body much.
 
I've made 3 trips to Africa/Botswana. I shoot Full frame and take 2 bodies....D5 and D850.

Two lenses cover almost everything for me.....500mm/f4 or 600mm/f4....and my 80-400 AF-S. I use a 1.4 tele on the prime when needed, but not on the 80-400. That 80-400 AF-S is a fantastic lens that doesn't get enough credit, IMHO. I've shot a series of a kingfisher diving under water and coming up....all in focus. And used it for rollers and bee eaters in flight. You can see my images HERE.

I generally throw in a 24-70.....but hardly use it.

Most safaris go out before or at daybreak and stay out as long as they can. So.... slower lenses may struggle during the nice soft light of early morning or late evening...and adding a tele just makes matters worse. AND.....you often need a lot of reach even for big mammals.

All my gear (excluding bean bags, fill, etc) goes in my carry on back pack and fits in the overhead. No wheels on the backpack. I've found anything with wheels is often picked to be gate checked. I also carry a computer bag with card reader, external HD"s, chargers, batteries, computer, and everything I need to back up my images during the trip. If my checked baggage doesn't make it, I'm still ready to shoot.
 
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All my gear (excluding bean bags, fill, etc) goes in my carry on back pack and fits in the overhead. No wheels on the backpack. I've found anything with wheels is often picked to be gate checked. I also carry a computer bag with card reader, external HD"s, chargers, batteries, computer, and everything I need to back up my images during the trip. If my checked baggage doesn't make it, I'm still ready to shoot.

Out of curiosity which backpack do you use?
 
I use the ThinkTank Commuter. The 600m fits in it along one side of the interior. The other side is available for more stuff. I'm 70 yrs old and only 5'3"....so weight of the bag is my problem. The bag will hold more than I want to carry. Hence a body or lens will be in the computer bag to distribute the weight.

I also have the Accelerator backpack, which is slightly bigger! But I've found I can manage with the Commuter and another carry on bag as this lets me divide up the weight better.

The built in waist belt on the ThinkTank backpacks puts the weight mostly on my legs. I can walk a long ways through airports as long as I use the waist belt.

Also, I always wear my photo vest. Not very fashionable, but those 21 pockets can sure hold a lot! LOL!
 
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I felt I'd written enough above ;) Very good you promoted the 80-400 G, and I recall @Callie also use this venerable zoom. I have had mine ~18 months only so it has seen enough of the wilds yet. So far it's been more of a backup to 70-200 f2.8E, but it does deliver on confiding birds. The other important factor is to have redundancy ie not only 2 cameras which work in a pair but one might fail or more likely get damaged at the hand of man; and a lens is that much more vulnerable.

I spent a long time researching this lens, which is a good example of not believing negative reviews etc. But this is one I did buy my 80-400 G new with current serial #. The equivocal feedback from owners of the 80-400 is probably mostly due to copy variation. Mine does well. One of the most versatile that's relatively affordable and ~1.5kg

The D5 is world leading, and Used cameras are becoming affordable, but it's less amenable to cropping (unlike a 45mp image) - one alternative I have for silent-shooting of caracal etc but also lowlight is the D780 built around the Z6 sensor. IQ is excellent even ISO 12800 . But as with the Zeds, the lack of Custom settings for AF-On +AFMode(s) is too often a showstopper with wildlife. Given the prices of these cameras it's inexcusable of Nikon not fix these foibles in Zeds and D780.) This is where the D5 is vastly superior (as are D500 and D850) and rather buy Used.

Carrying a decent assemblage of gear overseas is another topic/probably thread - including bags/packs! Actually I have found BA most lenient, and Ethiopian A'lines are on my s-list after trying to pull a fast one at boarding to charge extra on cabin baggage. Fortunately the waistcoat 'absorbed' the surplus :) The regional flights can be more challenging, particularly into Zambia. Botswana and even DR Congo and Angola have proved easier in my experience. Equally reports I hear and my experience is SA Airllink flying into Kruger NP destinations are also more flexible than SAA (a dodgy carrier)
 
The 300mm F2.8 is in a different league than the F4 PF, the 2.8 has no noticeable image degradation from TC 1.4/1.7 use, but it does have some weight to it. With TC use it can become any of those lenses, other than having the 200 on the short end.

I'd put the 300 F2.8 and 500mm PF on the same image quality level, everything else is just second or third rate to be honest. If I could have both I would.
Great answer to Nobby's thread as my thinking was similar. I was thinking #1 500mm pf 5.6 and the rest all tied at #5.
 
I just purchased the 500 f/5.6 PF last week and have the 300mm f/4 PF on order. The 500mm PF is now my second favorite lens (behind the 70-200 f/2.8). The difference between the 200-500 and the 500 PF is awesome (size, weight, and image quality). So much easier to lug around. I decided to pick up the 300mm PF with the hope of replacing the 200-500mm with the PF combo. I went back and forth on the 300mm f/4 vs the f/2.8. I have used both in the past and the image quality out of each was just about equal. Of course the f/2.8 is nicer but not $3,000 more in reality. I think the biggest gain is that extra stop of light. With that said, I still crave the 300mm f/2.8 of course and it remains on my list even with the 300mm pf purchase.

The fact the Z lenses are growing in numbers and the Z cameras are starting to come into their own, I feel like Nikon will be releasing a 300mm f/2.8 Z in the not so distance future. So as long as I can restrain myself, and am happy with the 300mm PF as a stop gap, I will hold off until that time. I am also waiting on that D500 Z camera to make the jump.
 
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All,

Amazing sharing on my first post with such great advice, never thought this would gain so many replies, thank you

The 300 2.8 VRII is going nowhere and will work well with low light either end of the day on safari. My 70-200 2.8 VR II is fantastic and was always making the trip. I have the two TC's 1.4 II / 2.0 III and will need to practice more on both lenses to firm up my views of TC either way. The 24-70 2.8 VR will also visit Africa

I have taken the 200-400 f/4 off the list leaving the 500 5.6 PF on the next long wish lens list and will more than likely have to trade the 200-500 f/5.6 in as I start the saving plan. It may be a while before this comes together.

As to a backpack I currently own the mindshift backlight 26L which I would highly recommend to everyone and is overhead locker friendly

In additional to Steve, I will further read advice from Brad Hill, Thom Hogan and Photography Life

Thank you all

Nobby
 
My first addition would be the 500mm PF followed by the 80-400mm zoom lens. I often found the 200-500mm to be too long at 200mm in many situations and that I would more often grab the 80-400mm lens. I have a 70-200mm f/2.8 but use it 100% of the time for landscape photography and an f/4 version would work equally well.

At least for me the 200-400mm lens required using at least a monopod if not a tripod with a gimbal mount. It also provides an image magnification that is best suited to medium to large animals. I prefer the 80-400mm as I often want the 80-200mm view angles, same problem as with the 200-500mm when I owned that lens.

I could be very happy 90% of the time photographing wildlife with only the 500mm PF, the 80-400mm, and the 200mm micro lens. The other 10% is when I use the 600mm f/4 lens. The 500mm PF and 80-400mm zoom are a perfect combo for use on boats when photographing animals at sea or along the shore.

I use my two teleconverters with the 600mm f/4 lens and did so with the 500mm f/4 telephoto as well. A 500mm f/4 with the two teleconverters is a great setup providing 500mm f/4, 700mm f/5.6, and 1000mm f/8. With the 600mm I very rarely use the TC-20 teleconverter.
 
I agree with most of what was told so far. The 300 f2.8 is the best of the bunch, but it is heavy and doesn't have the reach (I need / sweet spot 500 mm).
Having the 200-500 mm I went for the 300 PF. I love it, it is very compact, versatile (great for macro and some landscape work as well).
But I keep finding myself wanting the 500 PF (mainly to reduce weight / 1 kg lighter than the Zoom) and it's better weather sealed (safari use). On the other hand, it's expensive and you do lose the flexibility of zooming (safari in mind). Which ever way you go, there is always a trade-off to make...

I personally try to get closer to the critter as opposed to using a TC (which I do not own at the moment). But at times, getting closer is not an option, so I am contemplating getting the TC 14iii.
 
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thank you both, 500 f/5.6 PF is firmly on the list pending saving the funds, so many lenses but this feels like the one

As to both of the T/C's 1.4 II / 2.0 III that I already own, but don't really use, I need to spend more time using them both with the 70-200 2.8 VRII and 300 2.8 VRII to see if they win me round. Lots of reviews share that they work well, just need to find the balance, maybe I need to stop down to find the IQ i am chasing.

Thanks again
 
thank you both, 500 f/5.6 PF is firmly on the list pending saving the funds, so many lenses but this feels like the one

As to both of the T/C's 1.4 II / 2.0 III that I already own, but don't really use, I need to spend more time using them both with the 70-200 2.8 VRII and 300 2.8 VRII to see if they win me round. Lots of reviews share that they work well, just need to find the balance, maybe I need to stop down to find the IQ i am chasing.

Thanks again
TC’s almost always benefit from stopping down a little.
 
thank you both, 500 f/5.6 PF is firmly on the list pending saving the funds, so many lenses but this feels like the one

As to both of the T/C's 1.4 II / 2.0 III that I already own, but don't really use, I need to spend more time using them both with the 70-200 2.8 VRII and 300 2.8 VRII to see if they win me round. Lots of reviews share that they work well, just need to find the balance, maybe I need to stop down to find the IQ i am chasing.

Thanks again
Mine hasn’t been off my D7500 since it arrived...and it is so much more hand holdable than my Tamron 150-600G2 is..the Tamron is going up for sale.
 
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