Best system for Video AF with Bird/Eye ID

[MarkG]

Hello, folks.

I'm getting more into video lately (mostly reels for Instagram) and testing two systems that I have used for a long time for stills:

1. Sony a1/a6700 + 200-600 or 100-400 (with TC14)
2. OMDS OM-1mk2 + 300F4 Pro

In both cases the settings for C-AF are adjusted to recommended ones, based on numerous YT videos and field reports.

I find that either system is far from perfect. The Sony a1, surprisingly, is slow to squire initial focus in video, but then seems to stick to the bird reasonably well, but not as well as in stills. The a6700 +1.4x+100-400GM is super slow to acquire the focus initially.

OM is faster to acquire the focus initially, but shifts around quite a lot, despite the head/eye indicator boxes being on the bird the whole time. Why it decides to shift to background, for example, while seemingly having a positive Bird ID is unclear. It's just does not appear "sticky".

Question: is Nikon or Canon's AF any better for VIDEO? For example Z6iii or Z8 + 180-600 or 100-400. Or R5 (mk1 or mk2) +100-500.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts/comments

 

[ricardo00]

Hello, folks.

I'm getting more into video lately (mostly reels for Instagram) and testing two systems that I have used for a long time for stills:

1. Sony a1/a6700 + 200-600 or 100-400 (with TC14)
2. OMDS OM-1mk2 + 300F4 Pro

In both cases the settings for C-AF are adjusted to recommended ones, based on numerous YT videos and field reports.

I find that either system is far from perfect. The Sony a1, surprisingly, is slow to squire initial focus in video, but then seems to stick to the bird reasonably well, but not as well as in stills. The a6700 +1.4x+100-400GM is super slow to acquire the focus initially.

OM is faster to acquire the focus initially, but shifts around quite a lot, despite the head/eye indicator boxes being on the bird the whole time. Why it decides to shift to background, for example, while seemingly having a positive Bird ID is unclear. It's just does not appear "sticky".

Question: is Nikon or Canon's AF any better for VIDEO? For example Z6iii or Z8 + 180-600 or 100-400. Or R5 (mk1 or mk2) +100-500.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts/comments

I too would love to hear a comparison. I am a Nikon shooter and got the Z8 to do more video. It is slower to focus in video than for single pics (maybe my settings?) but stays on the bird/animals pretty well. Contemplate switching to the OM system but few people who use it seem to do video. I went on a photographic safari with an OM professional and he gave me some "vague" answer and never did any video on our trip. So not sure what the deal is with OM system and video. Have seen lots of great video with Sony.
Some of my videos with the Nikon system are on my Flickr site if interested. For example:

https://flic.kr/p/2pL39Dv

 

[Nimi]

Hello, folks.

I'm getting more into video lately (mostly reels for Instagram) and testing two systems that I have used for a long time for stills:

1. Sony a1/a6700 + 200-600 or 100-400 (with TC14)
2. OMDS OM-1mk2 + 300F4 Pro

In both cases the settings for C-AF are adjusted to recommended ones, based on numerous YT videos and field reports.

I find that either system is far from perfect. The Sony a1, surprisingly, is slow to squire initial focus in video, but then seems to stick to the bird reasonably well, but not as well as in stills. The a6700 +1.4x+100-400GM is super slow to acquire the focus initially.

OM is faster to acquire the focus initially, but shifts around quite a lot, despite the head/eye indicator boxes being on the bird the whole time. Why it decides to shift to background, for example, while seemingly having a positive Bird ID is unclear. It's just does not appear "sticky".

Question: is Nikon or Canon's AF any better for VIDEO? For example Z6iii or Z8 + 180-600 or 100-400. Or R5 (mk1 or mk2) +100-500.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts/comments

This nut hasn't been cracked yet, but every new top camera from Canon, Sony and Nikon advance it. Currently, the R5ii is probably the best hybrid on the market. Look for the next Sony A1mkii or A7Siv to surpass it when they are out.

Forget Olympus for anything video, they simply don't know how. If you're okay with an MFT and have a preference for it, Lumix has great bodies.

 

[MarkG]

I too would love to hear a comparison. I am a Nikon shooter and got the Z8 to do more video. It is slower to focus in video than for single pics (maybe my settings?) but stays on the bird/animals pretty well. Contemplate switching to the OM system but few people who use it seem to do video. I went on a photographic safari with an OM professional and he gave me some "vague" answer and never did any video on our trip. So not sure what the deal is with OM system and video. Have seen lots of great video with Sony.
Some of my videos with the Nikon system are on my Flickr site if interested. For example:

https://flic.kr/p/2pL39Dv

This is actually an excellent performance by AF in video, IMO. Neat video overall! Where was it made?

I would say that OM-1 (mk1 and mk2 that I have right now) have an "OK" Bird Eye AF - both stills and video - but not great. I feel that their algorithms are simply not as advanced/developed as Sony, for example. The biggest issue is AF point wandering around and not "sticking" to the bird very well. In stills this is less of an issue. I use the 25fps e-shutter mode (SH2) and even if some frames are not perfect, you usually can still find usable ones that are perfectly sharp.

In video, this AF wandering is more of an issue because it happens in the middle of action and not that easy to fix in post.

I love just about everything about OM-1 + 300F4 - ergonomics, IS, customization, small size/weight that make it a nice travel camera (or a kayak camera), but the AF is a source of frustration. The video quality is not bad - 4K60 with log profile. Not as good as Sony but not bad at all.

 

[MarkG]

This nut hasn't been cracked yet, but every new top camera from Canon, Sony and Nikon advance it. Currently, the R5ii is probably the best hybrid on the market. Look for the next Sony A1mkii or A7Siv to surpass it when they are out.

Forget Olympus for anything video, they simply don't know how. If you're okay with an MFT and have a preference for it, Lumix has great bodies.

Well, I have to disagree about Olympus and video. It's not that bad. I use OM-1mk2 in 4k60 with 10-bit Log and it grades pretty well and is decently sharp. The overall IS is superb, as well. But yes, Sony, Nikon and Canon (and Panasonic, I suspect) are better video quality-wise. However, for my purposes (Insta reels) even OM-1's 4k60 is good enough. I'd love better AF though.

If a question is asked this way: which system makes initial acquisition the fastest AND sticks to the bird the best? ... then which of the major 3 is better *today*? Canon, unfortunately, fails miserably in lens' department when it comes to long and reasonably light/small. It's the worst of the main 3 IMO, Nikon being first.

 

[ricardo00]

This is actually an excellent performance by AF in video, IMO. Neat video overall! Where was it made?

I would say that OM-1 (mk1 and mk2 that I have right now) have an "OK" Bird Eye AF - both stills and video - but not great. I feel that their algorithms are simply not as advanced/developed as Sony, for example. The biggest issue is AF point wandering around and not "sticking" to the bird very well. In stills this is less of an issue. I use the 25fps e-shutter mode (SH2) and even if some frames are not perfect, you usually can still find usable ones that are perfectly sharp.

In video, this AF wandering is more of an issue because it happens in the middle of action and not that easy to fix in post.

I love just about everything about OM-1 + 300F4 - ergonomics, IS, customization, small size/weight that make it a nice travel camera (or a kayak camera), but the AF is a source of frustration. The video quality is not bad - 4K60 with log profile. Not as good as Sony but not bad at all.

Thanks Mark! This was taken in the Bay Area, California (Stanford campus).

 

[Nimi]

Well, I have to disagree about Olympus and video. It's not that bad. I use OM-1mk2 in 4k60 with 10-bit Log and it grades pretty well and is decently sharp. The overall IS is superb, as well. But yes, Sony, Nikon and Canon (and Panasonic, I suspect) are better video quality-wise. However, for my purposes (Insta reels) even OM-1's 4k60 is good enough. I'd love better AF though.

If a question is asked this way: which system makes initial acquisition the fastest AND sticks to the bird the best? ... then which of the major 3 is better *today*? Canon, unfortunately, fails miserably in lens' department when it comes to long and reasonably light/small. It's the worst of the main 3 IMO, Nikon being first.

I'd say the A1 leads the pack if you rule out Canon due to lens choice. The A9iii is also well regarded, but there isn't much out there on their video capabilities that I could find.

 

[Rudy Pohl]

Hi Mark,

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party, but I thought I'd respond anyway.

As I'm sure we've all heard many times over, every system has its strengths and weaknesses. It's a matter of learning those strengths and weaknesses in whatever system you happen to be using and making the best of it.

I myself have been using the Canon R5 + RF100-500mm for the last 2 years with the RF200-800 added recently. I used a Nikon D500 for wildlife videos (without AF tracking) before that. I shoot about 4-5 times a week and have shot somewhere between 6000 and 7000 videos clips with the R5 under various lighting and weather conditions, all of them wildlife subjects. I have found that as far as AF tracking is concerned, that is, acquiring focus and maintaining focus, both for eye-AF tracking and subject tracking, the R5 with the RF100-500 does a very good job. With the R5 Mark 2 having just come out the R5 is reputedly the best value/deal on the market at the present time.

The RF100-500 is a superb lens with respect to IQ and it's very versatile. I used it for almost everything and I use an inexpensive RF50 f1.8 for all my wide establishing shots.

Rather than me writing a lot more stuff right now which may or may not address your specific questions, if you want to you can have a quick browse of some of my wildlife videos and see if you have any questions based on what you see. Here's my YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/@Rudy.Pohl.Ottawa/videos

Good luck in your search.
Rudy

 

[MarkG]

Thanks Mark! This was taken in the Bay Area, California (Stanford campus).

If you don't mind sharing, which lens?

 

[ricardo00]

If you don't mind sharing, which lens?

Sure, it was with the 800mm PF lens. Have used a variety of lenses for my videos.

 

[MarkG]

Hi Mark,

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party, but I thought I'd respond anyway.

As I'm sure we've all heard many times over, every system has its strengths and weaknesses. It's a matter of learning those strengths and weaknesses in whatever system you happen to be using and making the best of it.

I myself have been using the Canon R5 + RF100-500mm for the last 2 years with the RF200-800 added recently. I used a Nikon D500 for wildlife videos (without AF tracking) before that. I shoot about 4-5 times a week and have shot somewhere between 6000 and 7000 videos clips with the R5 under various lighting and weather conditions, all of them wildlife subjects. I have found that as far as AF tracking is concerned, that is, acquiring focus and maintaining focus, both for eye-AF tracking and subject tracking, the R5 with the RF100-500 does a very good job. With the R5 Mark 2 having just come out the R5 is reputedly the best value/deal on the market at the present time.

The RF100-500 is a superb lens with respect to IQ and it's very versatile. I used it for almost everything and I use an inexpensive RF50 f1.8 for all my wide establishing shots.

Rather than me writing a lot more stuff right now which may or may not address your specific questions, if you want to you can have a quick browse of some of my wildlife videos and see if you have any questions based on what you see. Here's my YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/@Rudy.Pohl.Ottawa/videos

Good luck in your search.
Rudy

Rudy - fantastic videos and narration! I subscribed to your channel to see more as they come out. Love the Grebes, and Snowy Owls! I will be traveling to Winnipeg in February 2025 to photograph snowy and great grey owls for three days. Really looking forward to it. As far as R5/100-500 combination, it seems to have excellent video AF. Looks like it maintains eye contact even in some difficult scenarios, like branches and wire fence. Do you shoot in 4K? If you can share your typical settings, I'd appreciate it. I also have couple of questions about R5.

Does it record in 4k60 or 4k120 in 10-bit Log internally to SD card? It's not obvious to me from the specs. Is it possible to use APS-C mode in video, basically getting a 1.6x tele, while also getting at least 4k60 resolution?

The choices between systems are tough. I used to shoot Canon during my portrait/weddings days, so I'm comfortable with it. The thing that gives me pause for wildlife is relative lack of primes in the 300-800mm range that are light and medium-fast (like Nikon 400 4.5, 600 6.3, Olympus 300 F4 , Sony 300 2.8). By all accounts 100-500 is a superb lens, and fairly light too, but it's not a prime :-(

 

[Rudy Pohl]

Rudy - fantastic videos and narration! I subscribed to your channel to see more as they come out. Love the Grebes, and Snowy Owls! I will be traveling to Winnipeg in February 2025 to photograph snowy and great grey owls for three days. Really looking forward to it. As far as R5/100-500 combination, it seems to have excellent video AF. Looks like it maintains eye contact even in some difficult scenarios, like branches and wire fence. Do you shoot in 4K? If you can share your typical settings, I'd appreciate it. I also have couple of questions about R5.

Does it record in 4k60 or 4k120 in 10-bit Log internally to SD card? It's not obvious to me from the specs. Is it possible to use APS-C mode in video, basically getting a 1.6x tele, while also getting at least 4k60 resolution?

The choices between systems are tough. I used to shoot Canon during my portrait/weddings days, so I'm comfortable with it. The thing that gives me pause for wildlife is relative lack of primes in the 300-800mm range that are light and medium-fast (like Nikon 400 4.5, 600 6.3, Olympus 300 F4 , Sony 300 2.8). By all accounts 100-500 is a superb lens, and fairly light too, but it's not a prime :-(

Hi Mark, thanks for your kind words. My wife and I really love those Grebes too! Cool news about your upcoming trip to Winnipeg for Snowies and Great Greys, wishing you a great time and lots of sightings.

Yes I shoot exclusively in 4K. I use 4K 30p Fine which is down-sampled from the 8.2K sensor and produces fabulous results. I also shoot in 4K 60p crop mode (my most often used format) because it's down-sampled from the 5.1K center of the sensor giving great IQ but also a 1.6 crop aa a bonus extending the effective reach. And I also the 4K 120p format for doing slow motion and super-slow motion. The slow motion is 1/4 regular speed but at times depending on your quality you slow this down even to 1/6 and 1/8 regular speed for awesome effect.

Please feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Take care,
Rudy

 

[Calson]

Nikon provides synchro VR with some of its lenses as is the case with some Olympus lenses where the stabilization of the camera is combined with that of the lens.
For Nikon it is these lenses:
• NIKKOR Z 28-400mm f/4-8 VR
• NIKKOR Z 70-200mm f/2.8 VR S
• NIKKOR Z 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 VR S
• NIKKOR Z 400mm f/2.8 TC VR S
• NIKKOR Z 400mm f/4.5 VR S
• NIKKOR Z 600mm f/4 TC VR S
• NIKKOR Z 600mm f/6.3 VR S
• NIKKOR Z 800mm f/6.3 VR S
• NIKKOR Z MC 105mm f/2.8 VR S

Hand held video is quite good even with longer focal length lenses.

 

[Alistair]

I can't really comment on the other systems but have use the Z9 a lot for video. For close in stuff with birds flitting around branches or running about on sand, I consider it to be excellent, finds and sticks to an eye like glue. For more challenging stuff (i.e. handheld, long lenses, erratic subject, changing busy backgrounds, subject small in frame etc. etc.) then that is a rather subjective depending upon your experience and expectations. But you can judge for yourself from this video which is completely unedited footage straight from the camera of a tern I was following with my camera while standing on a beach, 800mm lens. The causes of it losing the subject was mostly due to jerky handholding on my part and letting the subject get too near to the edge of the frame. The camera was at fault once or twice due to busy background. Note I have the video AF speed set to slow.

 

[MarkG]

I can't really comment on the other systems but have use the Z9 a lot for video. For close in stuff with birds flitting around branches or running about on sand, I consider it to be excellent, finds and sticks to an eye like glue. For more challenging stuff (i.e. handheld, long lenses, erratic subject, changing busy backgrounds, subject small in frame etc. etc.) then that is a rather subjective depending upon your experience and expectations. But you can judge for yourself from this video which is completely unedited footage straight from the camera of a tern I was following with my camera while standing on a beach, 800mm lens. The causes of it losing the subject was mostly due to jerky handholding on my part and letting the subject get too near to the edge of the frame. The camera was at fault once or twice due to busy background. Note I have the video AF speed set to slow.

This is really good tracking IMO. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Alistair]

This is really good tracking IMO. Thanks for sharing!

You are welcome. I am don't have time ATM to upload more to YT but have put some in a Google Drive folder if you are interested in further analysis. I will delete them after a few days to free up space but feel free to download any you want. I have supplied these to show what I feel is the weakest scenario for the system - white birds transitioning over patches of white water. Also when the bird has its back to the camera, or adopting shapes the AI does not recognise. This will usually cause the video AF to lose the subject, although it does pick it up again quickly. These are all 4k/60 in 10 bit NLOG straight out of camera with no processing so they are low contrast and washed out but show clearly enough the AF situation. All use the AF-F mode with auto area and slow speed (uses the full sensor to find subjects, continually focusing but slowly to give "cinematic" transitions).

Video Samples - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[Anjin San]

Realistically…Sony and Nikon gear will be better based on the situation. I know little about Canon or Olympus…but have not read anything saying they were superior. My best recommendation would be that switching systems is inherently expensive in both $$, learning g the new menu system, and muscle memory…so only switch if you are convinced of a significant advantage to doing so.

Unless you’re only interested in video…need to evaluate the whole system and capabilities for both skills and video…vs budget and all of the other factors.

 

[MarkG]

You are welcome. I am don't have time ATM to upload more to YT but have put some in a Google Drive folder if you are interested in further analysis. I will delete them after a few days to free up space but feel free to download any you want. I have supplied these to show what I feel is the weakest scenario for the system - white birds transitioning over patches of white water. Also when the bird has its back to the camera, or adopting shapes the AI does not recognise. This will usually cause the video AF to lose the subject, although it does pick it up again quickly. These are all 4k/60 in 10 bit NLOG straight out of camera with no processing so they are low contrast and washed out but show clearly enough the AF situation. All use the AF-F mode with auto area and slow speed (uses the full sensor to find subjects, continually focusing but slowly to give "cinematic" transitions).

Video Samples - Google Drive

drive.google.com

Thank you very much for the G-drive upload... these samples show that the Bird ID and tracking in video are quite good. The camera seems to regain focus quickly, after losing it.

 

[Alistair]

Thank you very much for the G-drive upload... these samples show that the Bird ID and tracking in video are quite good. The camera seems to regain focus quickly, after losing it.

You are welcome. It is far from perfect but some nice footage is possible with editing. Though I would expect the latest Canon R5 to be better with the benefit of nearly 3 more years development. If you are not familiar with Peanut Chu, check out his YT channel as he makes some very nice content using the Z9.

 

[Rudy Pohl]

You are welcome. It is far from perfect but some nice footage is possible with editing. Though I would expect the latest Canon R5 to be better with the benefit of nearly 3 more years development. If you are not familiar with Peanut Chu, check out his YT channel as he makes some very nice content using the Z9.

Hi Alistair,

I just had a look at Peanut Chu's youTube channel. His work is really quite incredible! I couldn't get over his Short-eared Owl video! Wow!!!!
Thanks for the recommendation.
Rudy

 

[Alistair]

Hi Alistair,

I just had a look at Peanut Chu's youTube channel. His work is really quite incredible! I couldn't get over his Short-eared Owl video! Wow!!!!
Thanks for the recommendation.
Rudy

You are very welcome, I am glad you liked them. Interestingly, the opening clips of his Owl videos do show up some problems I have also experienced with the Z9 video AF. Also it can be seen in Peanut's Skimmer videos. You notice AF is lost for a few frames as the subject turns or adopts positions the camera has to "rethink". It is only for a few frames but it is there. I think Peanut is using 4k/120 which is subsampled and therefore lacks ultimate crispness and this masks the effect a little. On the other hand 4k/60 in these cameras is oversampled and incredibly crisp and shows the problem a little more clearly. That said, YT compression degrades the footage quality and FB destroys it so it is probably a non-issue for these applications.
I expect these problems will be resolved in later camera bodies. Perhaps Canon has already solved them in the R1 and/or R5ii, I don't know.

 

[Rudy Pohl]

You are very welcome, I am glad you liked them. Interestingly, the opening clips of his Owl videos do show up some problems I have also experienced with the Z9 video AF. Also it can be seen in Peanut's Skimmer videos. You notice AF is lost for a few frames as the subject turns or adopts positions the camera has to "rethink". It is only for a few frames but it is there. I think Peanut is using 4k/120 which is subsampled and therefore lacks ultimate crispness and this masks the effect a little. On the other hand 4k/60 in these cameras is oversampled and incredibly crisp and shows the problem a little more clearly. That said, YT compression degrades the footage quality and FB destroys it so it is probably a non-issue for these applications.
I expect these problems will be resolved in later camera bodies. Perhaps Canon has already solved them in the R1 and/or R5ii, I don't know.

Hi Alistair,
I must say that despite these extremely minor and infrequent losses of focus the AF system performance in these Z9 videos is exceptional in my opinion. Keep in mind that we rarely if ever see continuous flight sequences this long in professional wildlife productions such as National Geographic or Nature documentaries. Editors would not only cut these defective sections out, but they would also cut them to shorten them to keep the story moving along. I work with the Canon R5 with its 4-year old AF technology which has this problem often enough during a filming session. If it wasn't for the ability, and the creative necessity, of cutting up the longer clips into shorter sections I'd be up the creek without a paddle, as I think would most other wildlife filmmakers, especially those pros who use manual focus only.
Rudy