Burnt out Skies , How Infuriating ! Can you help me solve this problem?

If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).

Consider this! You have spent a considerable amount of money to travel to a location, where you can photograph puffins in flight.
In comes a bird on a landing approach, it flares out to land and its bill is stacked full of sand eels. You have tracked it on the way in.
You let rip with a small burst, your timing is immaculate . The resulting image of the bird is sharp and well exposed even down to the
sand ells eyes. However, the flipin sky is BURNED OUT how infuriating! Sometime I will take an image PERFECT SKY other times where
has the flipin sky gone. I don't understand why! This is definitely a weakness of mine! Please can you help me?:rolleyes:
 
Consider this! You have spent a considerable amount of money to travel to a location, where you can photograph puffins in flight.
In comes a bird on a landing approach, it flares out to land and its bill is stacked full of sand eels. You have tracked it on the way in.
You let rip with a small burst, your timing is immaculate . The resulting image of the bird is sharp and well exposed even down to the
sand ells eyes. However, the flipin sky is BURNED OUT how infuriating! Sometime I will take an image PERFECT SKY other times where
has the flipin sky gone. I don't understand why! This is definitely a weakness of mine! Please can you help me?:rolleyes:
It would help to see specific photos where you've had this problem but it typically results from a bird with bright feathers that's relatively small in the frame and flies in front of a dark background.

Whether matrix or center weighted metering the camera looks at a fairly large region to all of the frame and tries to find a decent exposure for all of what it sees. If a brightly feathered bird is relatively small in the frame and it flies in front of a darker background the metering will be overly influenced by that dark background and since all uncompensated metering works on the assumption that the world is 18% gray it will brighten up the image. But if in fact that background really should be much darker than 18% gray AND your main subject (the Puffin) has areas of bright feathers, those brighter areas will tend to get blown out. The same bird up against the sky will likely be exposed fine or could even be under exposed because again the relatively large sky/cloud area can be much brighter than 18% gray and the camera will often be influenced to darken everything accordingly.

Matrix metering usually does a much better job in these kinds of situations than a pure center weighted metering approach but extreme situations like a smaller white subject (or small portions that are white) against a very dark background or smaller black subjects against a bright background are difficult for auto metering. Spot metering just on a neutral tone area can work but that is tough with action shots and generally not the way to go.

The larger your subject is in the frame the less the exposure will be influenced by the background. IOW, matrix metering tends to do a better job with frame filling portraits than more distant shots though Puffins are somewhat tough subjects because they're largely dark with some very bright areas. Something like a nearly frame filling Great Blue Heron is much easier from a metering standpoint as it's mostly neutral tones. Wedding day photos with a white dress next to a black tux in harsh mid day light are a classic example of tough metering and Puffins are a bit like that, but they move a lot faster :)

There's a few ways to deal with it:

- The easy but crude approach is if you check histograms or image review blinky's in the field and see that you're overexposing bright areas, you can dial in some negative exposure compensation as in -.3 to -.7 stops or sometimes more. That can give you more margin to save highlights but in more neutral conditions where either the birds are much larger in the frame or the backgrounds aren't so dark that will tend to under expose images though that can often be easier to fix in post with modern high dynamic range sensors but it's not ideal from an IQ and noise standpoint to just blindly dial in exposure comp. Ideally you'd compensate for each changing scene as needed.

- A more sophisticated approach when you see shooting conditions where the subjects could be big or small in the frame and the backgrounds could vary from neutral to very dark or very bright is to run full manual exposure mode with manual ISO setting and pre-meter the scene to get a good exposure. This is one place where spot metering or at least a couple of test shots can help you dial in the correct manual exposure for the given light. This works great if the light doesn't change too much but if the light does change a lot (e.g clouds coming and going or sunrise, sunset times) then you should re-meter and reset your manual settings (often just an ISO adjustment) to account for the changing light. But with the camera set to full manual with a good exposure it doesn't matter if your puffins are frame filling or tiny or in front of dark rocks or just out on midtown green grass, as long as the light is steady each shot will be exposed the same.

- Another approach if the backgrounds and subject sizes aren't changing too much but the light is changing is to run an auto mode like Manual Exposure/Auto ISO or Aperture or Shutter Priority which will account for changing light levels but then it's up to you to either dial in a constant exposure compensation based on the typical scene if needed or be ready to change exposure comp on the fly as the scene changes, like when the Puffins move from landing on green mid tone grass to landing in front of dark rocks.

But in the end you as the photographer have to pay attention to either the changing scene (e.g. dark backgrounds) or the changing light levels as the camera can track one or the other pretty well depending on which of the above choices you make but it can't automatically adjust for everything as it has no real idea what your intent is or what your subjects and backgrounds are. That can be frustrating when the action is hot and heavy but it's part of mastering field photography skills.

I've used all of the approaches above in various situations and switching back and forth between Manual Exposure/Auto ISO and Manual Exposure/Fixed ISO is really easy on a lot of cameras including the latest crop of pro and semi pro Nikon DSLRs. Similarly dialing in exposure comp is really easy and can generally be done without having to take your eye away from the viewfinder. If this seems daunting, the easiest first step is to get used to checking your histogram or blinkIES (dang spell check won't let me spell that without the caps ;) ) and adjust as needed in the field.
 
Last edited:
Here is the offending image, I had a 300pf on (should have been using 1.4 extender NUMPTY LOL) and to tell the whole truth i was 1.3 stops under exposed. Boy I'm really bearing my soul and exposing all my secrets here aren't I. But you know what I am determined to learn and improve. I'm 66 years old and time is short! And you Know what its really interesting. The special Relationship UK/ USA is in action! (and the rest of the world folks, sorry haha) :unsure:
DSC_9077.jpg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
 
I'd say you are still a tad overexposed but I don't think that will help much. Looks like you've got the dreaded overcast, and I haven't found anything you can do about it, birds against a blank overcast sky when properly exposed for the bird, this is what you get. I know several photogs who refuse to shoot BIF on gray days. On thing that may help is switching to full manual exposure. Your lighting looks constant so once you get the exposure dialed in, you should be able to make the transition from sky BG to land BG seemlessly. In this case, I would set my exposure based on the birds on the ground so that the whites don't clip (blow up). I'm not saying this will fix a blank sky but it might resolve some of your frustration with exposure.
 
Shooting Nikon? Try Highlight Weighted metering. It shows up as ".*" in the metering menu.

"Highlight-weighted metering is a new metering mode that is offered in select Nikon DSLR cameras, in which the camera meters the highlights to ensure that they are properly exposed and not blown out or overexposed. Use highlight-weighted metering to meter highlights when your subject is in motion, and to meter subjects lit by spotlights or colored lighting."
 
Last edited:
In my experience, highlight metering is a little better but not the complete answer for the problems I encounter with BIF in New England. The transition from a sky BG to land BG is just over a stop difference on a sunny day (more like -2 to -3 if the BG is in shade), closer to 2.5-3 stops on a cloudy day. I do shoot highlight weighted matrix (yes, it's based on matrix metering not spot) but it doesn't work as well as Nikon would have you think.
 
IMO the sky is not completely blown out in this picture, and some post processing tweaks, such as dropping highlights and exposure and bringing out shadows and dehazing will help the image a lot. I have used highlight weighted metering before on my d850, can help a lot, and least in not overexposing the sky, but will underexpose the subject somewhat.
 
In my experience, highlight metering is a little better but not the complete answer for the problems I encounter with BIF in New England. The transition from a sky BG to land BG is just over a stop difference on a sunny day (more like -2 to -3 if the BG is in shade), closer to 2.5-3 stops on a cloudy day. I do shoot highlight weighted matrix (yes, it's based on matrix metering not spot) but it doesn't work as well as Nikon would have you think.
It works fine on my D5. I use it all the time. Makes a huge different.
 
IMO the sky is not completely blown out in this picture, and some post processing tweaks, such as dropping highlights and exposure and bringing out shadows and dehazing will help the image a lot. I have used highlight weighted metering before on my d850, can help a lot, and least in not overexposing the sky, but will underexpose the subject somewhat.
Right, but it is much easier to bring up underexposed areas that to bring down overexposed.
 
to tell the whole truth i was 1.3 stops under exposed.
Do you mean to say you had 1.3 stops of negative exposure compensation dialed in? I can't read the original EXIF data but it sure looks like there was a stop or more of positive exposure compensation dialed in at the time the photo was captured. Not only is the bird and sky very bright but the grass is too bright which all suggests the camera was set to plus exposure comp, not negative exposure comp.

If you're saying the exposure comp was set to zero (default) and the image came back about 1.3 stops under exposed but then you brightened it for this web image then yeah, that's about what I'd expect in a scene like this with the bright overcast sky dominating the camera's exposure metering and I wouldn't brighten it in post this much.

The other thing to double check is that your camera wasn't set to spot metering. If you happened to spot meter one of the black portions of the Puffin then that would also blow out the whole scene.

Regardless, this is a good example of a scene where the camera's exposure metering will be heavily influenced by the overall scene(using Matrix metering) and not really tailored for your most important subject (the Puffin). It's easy to see a great bird like that in the viewfinder and it grabs all of our attention but to the camera that's taking metering info from the whole scene (again, assuming matrix metering not spot metering which can create its own problems) the bird is a very small part of the overall scene and won't play a huge role in the camera's exposure metering.

In a scene like that if you decided to try the full manual exposure including manually set ISO approach you could start the session by choosing your preferred shutter speed (fast) and aperture (perhaps stopped down a tiny bit from wide open to give yourself some focus margin of error) and then point the camera at an open (unshaded) section of green grass and set the ISO so that the grass is well exposed as green summer grass has pretty close to 18% reflectivity, it's very similar to nature's 18% gray card. Get the grass exposed well in a test shot that is all grass and then take a photo or two that includes some bright highlights like some Puffins on the ground or gulls or whatever is around to double check that white's won't blow out and then lower ISO a bit if they do. That would set you up good to go until the light substantially changed.
 
Last edited:
Getting it right in the camera is the best solution but if you did not here is what I use to salvage the photo in Photoshop. Try using the Paint Bucket tool in Photoshop with blue at 15%. You may have to do it a couple of times. Sometimes not work well if the bird has white on its outer edges. You have to select the bird, reverse the selection and then use the Paint bucket tool.
DSC_9077 Photoshop.jpg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
 
Last edited:
I feel with you. It happened so often to me and it still does ...

Sorry to ask, by no means I want to be smart-alec or intrusive, but when searching the page in my browser it didn't find the word "RAW", so ... Did you shoot this in RAW or JPG ?
If it was RAW, to me the first picture doesn't look too bad because I believe I can still see the blurry border line between water and sky at the horizon. With a RAW I would expect that there is some headroom left for post processing. IMHO the attempt to repair it doens't really look that nice as the blurred borderline between vegetation and water got too harsh compared to the vegetation itself.

I just played around with the JPG quickly a little bit and just by pulling down exposure it was obvious that the sky doesn't seem to be burnt out as some colour was coming back. If an area is really burnt out it usually stays white and you will get a visible borderline when moving the slider.

What do you think about the one below ?

As I said, it was just a quick and dirty try and it is probably miles away from what you can get out of the original file, especially if you got it in RAW. So, IMHO you should be much happier to have gotten this shot rather than being dissapointed about not geeting the setting right i the first place. **** happens...but if you don't wait until it gets hardd you can wipe it off. Since my friend told me about the purpose of exposure compensation I can't remember how often I got it wrong or was too slow to do it in time or just forgot to set it back or ... :giggle:.

Forum-Test_Stevie_0_b4.jpg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
 
P.S. I did this attempt with the software I just started testing and I just know it is very good with soft masks, but I haven't had the time to learn how to use this. So I think there will be more that could be done with the water and the sky without getting this harsh vegetation borderline as in picture 2. But there must be people around here that are lightyears beyond my knowlegde level regaring post processing.
 
Don't overlook the possibility of some manual vignetting (in this sample, done with the Photoshop burn tool). An old darkroom trick from the Jurassic age. I've found it to be of great help with nondescript skies and relatively uninteresting foregrounds, serving to bring the eye to the subject. One can't help but click away at puffins. You got a nice shot here.
Forum-Test_Stevie_0_b4.jpg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
 
Here is the offending image, I had a 300pf on (should have been using 1.4 extender NUMPTY LOL) and to tell the whole truth i was 1.3 stops under exposed. Boy I'm really bearing my soul and exposing all my secrets here aren't I. But you know what I am determined to learn and improve. I'm 66 years old and time is short! And you Know what its really interesting. The special Relationship UK/ USA is in action! (and the rest of the world folks, sorry haha) :unsure:

I downloaded the image and looked at the metadata in Bridge. It shows matrix metering with +1.0 EV exposure compensation. That is at least part of the problem.

Regards,

Bill
Plus1.jpg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
 
Once again an outstanding response I tell you what ladies and gentlemen you really are a set of what the Londoners would call Diamond Geezers ( A slang term for someone you think is superb). I have studied what everybody had written and i am most grateful for all your efforts thank you very much indeed,I really appreciate it! Here's how it is, Iv'e got the gear ( D850/ D500 and quite an array of lenses, some of them very expensive). I haven't gone to the extremes f4/500, but I've got just about everything else and its time to get serious. EXPOSURE has has been the bain of my photography life and is the main reason for being inconsistent. Here's the plan, I'm going today to buy a Gray Card and I will carry
it in a backpack when ever I'm out with my camera and if there is ever a time i haven't got it i can use DRwyoming's trick with green grass. I will also learn to use the compensation button intelligently, I am now going to practise until the correct exposure is the norm. I went onto Youtube and watched a presentation about Nikons highlight metering is seems it exposes the highlights and leaves the subject underexposed? The only way I could see that being useful is if the photographer was using it in combination with the compensation button. Thanks for everything and until the next time see ya !
 
You could also consider making a duplicate layer and processing it a couple of stops darker. You could then brush in the parts you wanty darker using a layer mask. There is typically more data to recover in the highlights than in the shadows, unless the white is totally blown out so working from there might be better than pulling up the shadows where you may generate more noise. I will re-read Steve’s book about the Nikon Metering systems to learn about highlight weighted metering.
 
Here's the plan, I'm going today to buy a Gray Card and I will carry
it in a backpack when ever I'm out with my camera and if there is ever a time i haven't got it i can use DRwyoming's trick with green grass. I will also learn to use the compensation button intelligently, I am now going to practise until the correct exposure is the norm. I went onto Youtube and watched a presentation about Nikons highlight metering is seems it exposes the highlights and leaves the subject underexposed? The only way I could see that being useful is if the photographer was using it in combination with the compensation button.

There is something else you can do that may be more helpful if you are out there in a certain spot. Use "Blinkies" !
@Steve has given very good background info on blinkies in an article and a video in April 2019 and it is certainly worth looking at.
Especially in situations that you may have had with the above picture it can help a lot. Once you reached your spot Just spend a couple of quick dummy shots with different levels of exposure compensation and take a look at these blinkies. That will allow you to judge what is the best compromise if you have to cover a big dynamic range. After learning this from @Steve I used it when making advertising photos of my house (white house, very bright sunlight with white clouds combined with lots of dark vegetation) and it worked really fine. Now I am doing it almost everytime I run in situation with a risk of overexposure and burning out. By the way, it can hit you also from the opposite side, if you are photographing a bird with small areas of white feathers in a dark environment, where you tend to loose the details in thw white feathers due to burning out. And - like @Capturingtheunseen.com mentioned earlier - it is easier to pull up underexposed areas in your picture than recovering overexposed areas by pushing them down. The only danger here is that you might run into noise problems occasionally in dim light conditions.
 
I will also learn to use the compensation button intelligently, I am now going to practise until the correct exposure is the norm.
Good plan. One good policy is to always return any exposure compensation to zero after you dial some in for a particular scene. A lot of folks get excited, dial in some exposure comp for something and then forget they'd done that point the camera at a totally different scene and everything is way off. When in doubt the default setting of zero compensation is the way to go, just try to create a habit of spinning that comp dial back to zero after you've finished shooting that particular scene. A related good habit to develop is checking all your settings, but in particular your exposure comp every time you pick up or unpack your camera gear at the start of a shooting day.

From the sound of it in this thread you didn't intentionally have +1 stop of exposure comp dialed in for the Puffin but that's the main reason it came back blown out. All the stuff I posted in that first thread are secondary at best to simply starting with a good non-compensated exposure.
 
Back
Top