Buying into Z system

[rshean]

I’ve decided to replace my aging D750 and jump into the mirrorless camera world. Is the Z6 II worth buying new or would a used Z6 at around $800 less be a better buy? This will be a back up wildlife camera (to a D850) and used in event/portraiture work. Everything points to a marginal increase in AF capabilities out of the box, but I am wondering if firmware updates could maximize the two on board processors.

Thank you for your time and sorry for yet another question about the new Z cameras

 

[DavidT]

I would buy the Z6II. I prefer a gripped camera. Frankly I am considering selling my Z6 simply for the grip.

 

[Steve]

Based on my experience with both cameras, I'd get the Z6ii. AF is better, but overall response is better too. Plus, I have a feeling future firmware updates will not add features to older cameras (this is typical with Nikon), so the next really cool Z series mirrorless feature that comes via firmware may only be available in the new / current Z cameras.

 

[Thern]

Based on my experience with both cameras, I'd get the Z6ii. AF is better, but overall response is better too. Plus, I have a feeling future firmware updates will not add features to older cameras (this is typical with Nikon), so the next really cool Z series mirrorless feature that comes via firmware may only be available in the new / current Z cameras.

I’m really wondering wether that’s really important for event/portraiture?
Don’t get me wrong I do agree with you but on the other hand I also still see (even pro-) shooters using D800/D810’s for fashion and portraiture.
Correct me if I’m wrong but IQ of both Zeds is identical so it boils down to features and sure the nextgen is better there but is it really worth the money?
The old Zed is slower but that’s imo not that important for portraiture or event photography.
Leaves us with the backup for the D850 for wildlife.
I’m inclined to state neither nor is good for that purpose.
Completely different animals in resolution, AF, speed and handling.

 

[EricBowles]

I think you are looking at the right decision. The Z6 is a terrific step for events, portraits, etc. While it's not bad for wildlife, the strength is for the other areas. The Z6 is okay for wildlife - actually very good for everything but smaller subjects with fast action. The catch as Steve points out is the Z6ii has a second processor, and historically those cameras have provided major steps forward in AF speed. If you want the camera that is better for wildlife - it's the Z6ii.

If you don't get the Z6ii now and choose the cost savings with the Z6, you probably want to think about your next move. You will be looking for a better wildlife camera to replace either the D850 or Z6 - probably in a couple of years. At that point to you upgrade the D850 and keep the Z6, or replace the Z6?

The Z6ii does provide a better platform for firmware improvements, and is a very solid camera. If that's your choice, the next camera upgrade is a replacement for your D850 in 2+ years. At that point you could stay with a DSLR or move to another mirrorless. I suspect the AF speed of the Z6ii will give your D850 competition as your primary camera - and the Z6ii is better for everything else (other than action wildlife) except when high resolution is needed.

 

[Steve]

I’m really wondering wether that’s really important for event/portraiture?
Don’t get me wrong I do agree with you but on the other hand I also still see (even pro-) shooters using D800/D810’s for fashion and portraiture.
Correct me if I’m wrong but IQ of both Zeds is identical so it boils down to features and sure the nextgen is better there but is it really worth the money?
The old Zed is slower but that’s imo not that important for portraiture or event photography.
Leaves us with the backup for the D850 for wildlife.
I’m inclined to state neither nor is good for that purpose.
Completely different animals in resolution, AF, speed and handling.

For events / portraits, maybe not. However, things like eye AF are improved (or seem like it) on the Z6ii and I do think that may be useful. Plus, if Nikon finds ways to improve it, and if they follow their historical pattern, any updates for that feature will likely be limited to current models.

For wildlife, I think it depends on if it's just a backup that sits in the bag or one that gets a second lens. In my admittedly limited experience with the Z6ii, it sure seems better at general wildlife to me and even seems to be able to handle some action now. And I do agree - it's no D850 either way, but it can get the job done as a backup I think.

 

[Thern]

For events / portraits, maybe not. However, things like eye AF are improved (or seem like it) on the Z6ii and I do think that may be useful. Plus, if Nikon finds ways to improve it, and if they follow their historical pattern, any updates for that feature will likely be limited to current models.

For wildlife, I think it depends on if it's just a backup that sits in the bag or one that gets a second lens. In my admittedly limited experience with the Z6ii, it sure seems better at general wildlife to me and even seems to be able to handle some action now. And I do agree - it's no D850 either way, but it can get the job done as a backup I think.

Okay Steve, thanks for the heads up,
To me a backup body sits in the bag untill needed, but that maybe another interpretation of the word ‘backup’.
Anyway nice to read you think the Z6II to be capable to substitute a D850 when needed.
That’s a big step up! I’m going to order one.
Thanks!

 

[Steve]

Okay Steve, thanks for the heads up,
To me a backup body sits in the bag untill needed, but that maybe another interpretation of the word ‘backup’.
Anyway nice to read you think the Z6II to be capable to substitute a D850 when needed.
That’s a big step up! I’m going to order one.
Thanks!

Before you order, I think a Z7ii would be an every better backup / adjunct to a D850. I have a Z6ii and like it, but I think the Z7ii is the camera I'll end up using more.

 

[CharlieR]

I have a Z6 and a D500--I found almost immediately that the Z6 (I got it very soon after its release) was not up to the task for photographing small birds/BIF which is what I mostly photograph. So, I have stuck by my D500 and was hoping that Nikon would come at least close to the Sony's or even the new Canon's (R5/R6) with the release of the Z 6II. I just received one of the initial Z 6II's and I have to say that the AF is sorely lacking--not even up to a D500 yet, much less to the degree that I know the Canon's are at (I have 3 friends shooting with the Canon's--two with R5's and one with an R6). I took the Z 6II out and tried photographing a bluebird on a cattail about 30' away with my 200-500/f5.6 attached--the camera would not focus on the bird (I had it on AF-C, single point focus); I switched to group-AF--marginally better, but the 'hit' rate still far below what I would be getting with my D500. Ducks and geese flying over me and I tried the camera in wide-area AF (birds against an overcast sky) and in group-AF--again, disappointing results with maybe a third of my photos in focus. Meanwhile, the guy with the R6 shows up with the Canon 800mm/f11 attached, and even though he's restricted to f11 in pretty poor light, he's nailing the shots that I'm missing. I'm shooting 1/1000/f7.1 and the camera is struggling. I could not get it to focus on birds in single-point AF that were relatively close--I kept fumbling trying to change the focus mode and losing shots. I'm very disappointed and will be sending the camera back (thank heaven for B&H's return policy); I really thought Nikon would come through with this iteration of the Z cameras--I can't switch systems at this juncture--I'd love to have a mirrorless that performs at least to a D500/D850 level, along with the eye-AF. The whole subject-tracking option is not really designed for anything moving fast--might be good for photographing a slow-moving egret or heron or shorebirds along the beach, but forget about small, relatively fast-moving subjects. I wanted very much for this camera to be a keeper, but in my estimation, Nikon is not there yet.

Charlie
Simpsonville, SC USA

Nikon D500
Nikon Z6

 

[Steve]

I have a Z6 and a D500--I found almost immediately that the Z6 (I got it very soon after its release) was not up to the task for photographing small birds/BIF which is what I mostly photograph. So, I have stuck by my D500 and was hoping that Nikon would come at least close to the Sony's or even the new Canon's (R5/R6) with the release of the Z 6II. I just received one of the initial Z 6II's and I have to say that the AF is sorely lacking--not even up to a D500 yet, much less to the degree that I know the Canon's are at (I have 3 friends shooting with the Canon's--two with R5's and one with an R6). I took the Z 6II out and tried photographing a bluebird on a cattail about 30' away with my 200-500/f5.6 attached--the camera would not focus on the bird (I had it on AF-C, single point focus); I switched to group-AF--marginally better, but the 'hit' rate still far below what I would be getting with my D500. Ducks and geese flying over me and I tried the camera in wide-area AF (birds against an overcast sky) and in group-AF--again, disappointing results with maybe a third of my photos in focus. Meanwhile, the guy with the R6 shows up with the Canon 800mm/f11 attached, and even though he's restricted to f11 in pretty poor light, he's nailing the shots that I'm missing. I'm shooting 1/1000/f7.1 and the camera is struggling. I could not get it to focus on birds in single-point AF that were relatively close--I kept fumbling trying to change the focus mode and losing shots. I'm very disappointed and will be sending the camera back (thank heaven for B&H's return policy); I really thought Nikon would come through with this iteration of the Z cameras--I can't switch systems at this juncture--I'd love to have a mirrorless that performs at least to a D500/D850 level, along with the eye-AF. The whole subject-tracking option is not really designed for anything moving fast--might be good for photographing a slow-moving egret or heron or shorebirds along the beach, but forget about small, relatively fast-moving subjects. I wanted very much for this camera to be a keeper, but in my estimation, Nikon is not there yet.

Charlie
Simpsonville, SC USA

Nikon D500
Nikon Z6

I've had some limited luck with the Z6ii for BIF work, but we're talking seagulls - and not frame-filling ones either. Based on my admittedly limited experience with it, I wouldn't recommend it for small, fast BIF work (other than pre-focus scenarios). I am surprised that it had a hard time focusing on the stationary bluebird - my Z6ii grabs onto most targets without complaint and seems very accurate too. However, you do have to keep in mind that mirrorless cameras are currently limited to horizontal line sensors only. So, unless there are enough vertical lines for them to focus on, the camera will struggle in even the best conditions. Still, that doesn't sound like the case based on your description. To me, it seems like they are still a solid generation or so behind Sony (I can't speak to Canon). My a9ii nets so many sharp BIF shots it's ridiculous (in a good way).

 

[rshean]

These are all great points, thank you everyone! I went ahead and put in a pre-order on the Z6ii. I probably should have clarified what I mean about a back up camera. When I'm staked out in a blind with my 600mm on the D850, from time to time something interesting will pop up inside of the 600mm minimum focus distance so I like to have a 300mm pf or 105mm macro attached to a body. Anything to pass time on long sits! The Z7ii sounds tempting, even if only for opening up cropping opportunities with all those megapixels, but for events and headshots 24mp files are just a lot easier to wade through at the end of the day

 

[Deleted member 115]

I just checked pricing on Z6 vs Z6II, I would never lose sleep over that small of a price difference for the newer tech.

 

[EricBowles]

I have a Z6 and a D500--I found almost immediately that the Z6 (I got it very soon after its release) was not up to the task for photographing small birds/BIF which is what I mostly photograph. So, I have stuck by my D500 and was hoping that Nikon would come at least close to the Sony's or even the new Canon's (R5/R6) with the release of the Z 6II. I just received one of the initial Z 6II's and I have to say that the AF is sorely lacking--not even up to a D500 yet, much less to the degree that I know the Canon's are at (I have 3 friends shooting with the Canon's--two with R5's and one with an R6). I took the Z 6II out and tried photographing a bluebird on a cattail about 30' away with my 200-500/f5.6 attached--the camera would not focus on the bird (I had it on AF-C, single point focus); I switched to group-AF--marginally better, but the 'hit' rate still far below what I would be getting with my D500. Ducks and geese flying over me and I tried the camera in wide-area AF (birds against an overcast sky) and in group-AF--again, disappointing results with maybe a third of my photos in focus. Meanwhile, the guy with the R6 shows up with the Canon 800mm/f11 attached, and even though he's restricted to f11 in pretty poor light, he's nailing the shots that I'm missing. I'm shooting 1/1000/f7.1 and the camera is struggling. I could not get it to focus on birds in single-point AF that were relatively close--I kept fumbling trying to change the focus mode and losing shots. I'm very disappointed and will be sending the camera back (thank heaven for B&H's return policy); I really thought Nikon would come through with this iteration of the Z cameras--I can't switch systems at this juncture--I'd love to have a mirrorless that performs at least to a D500/D850 level, along with the eye-AF. The whole subject-tracking option is not really designed for anything moving fast--might be good for photographing a slow-moving egret or heron or shorebirds along the beach, but forget about small, relatively fast-moving subjects. I wanted very much for this camera to be a keeper, but in my estimation, Nikon is not there yet.

Charlie
Simpsonville, SC USA

Nikon D500
Nikon Z6

Hi Charlie

I really think there is something going on with your settings and technique. The Z cameras do an excellent job of focus accuracy - it's speed that's the issue. But the AF modes and even technique are different compared to your D500, and if you are using the same modes and settings, the camera is not being optimized.

I've been able to photograph thousands of shorebirds with the Z6, and the Z6ii AF is significantly faster. Songbirds are harder, but the AF accuracy of the Z6 is excellent for perched birds. The weak point is fast moving small birds which is challenging. For large wading birds, there are two types of "tracking". I'm normally panning to follow a moving bird, so I keep the AF point or group of points (Wide Small or Large) on the subject. If you can follow the bird, it does a pretty good job. The other type of tracking is focusing on the subject and having the camera follow the subject as it moves through a stationary frame. This is important for video, and less important for stills. This technique is different, and requires different settings that take some practice. The key is the subject needs to be in sharp focus to start, and relatively large in the frame. It's not going to be very good with sudden unpredictable movement - like a bird taking off, but rather an animal or person walking or trotting through the frame.

 

[Pistnbroke]

Get another D850. You know it makes sense.