Camera advice on Hummers

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EnjoyPics

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For hummers I have been using AF-C single point for focus and I pan to keep the point on the bird. I have gotten some nice photos. I have a D3300 and Z50 and use a 70-300 lens. For hummers I am not successful using 3D tracking or subject tracking with either camera of those cameras. Would the ability to track increase the number of keepers over panning? Do owners of the D7500 find you get more keepers over the Z6 II? Do you find that you track instead of pan?
 
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Are you trying to photograph the hummers during random encounters as they flit around - or do you set and wait for them to come to a specific location such as a bunch of flowers, bush/plant, or hummer feeder?
 
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I am sitting on my patio and 3 to 15 feet away from blooming plants and 12 feed away from feeder. I take pictures with the birds perched at the feeder or hovering in front of the blooms. I use AF-C single point but it is work to keep the point on the bird either handholding or using a tripod and gimbal. I was wondering if tracking is easier or provides a better picture or more keepers. There is so much talk about some dslr providing good tracking and mirrorless providing inferior tracking. I wondered if I was missing out by relying on panning. Are the results from panning just as good as tracking in my use case? The cameras I have do not track well.
 
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Excuse me for these simple questions about the D7500 or D500, but if you use Group AF or Dynamic area - Will the camera lock onto the target focus point and follow it around in your viewfinder even if it has moved outside of the original perimeter of the dynamic or group areas that existed when the focus point originally locked on? Do the perimeters of these areas move around the viewfinder keeping the focus point in the center of the area? Do you have to do some panning to keep it inside the perimeter of the dynamic or group AF? I did try dynamic with the Z50 and it seemed I had better luck with single point. Maybe I am using subject tracking wrong on the Z50 but the focus point did not seem to lock on to the hummer. It would just drift off the hummer. Was the bird maybe too small in the tracking box so it did not lock on? Do the full frame Z’s do any better tracking a hummer as it flits from bloom to bloom and hovers?
 
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My experience with hummers is to try and capture them when they are hovering and not trying to focus, pan, then shoot. Pick a feeding station they use at a flower/plant or feeder.
My best results has been with using 2-3 small cheap off-camera manual flashes with a flash wireless trigger in camera shoe. Position a flash about 45 deg each side of an known feeding point (flower/feeder). A 3rd flash can be used to brighten the background.

Set 2 subject flash outputs quite low - 1/32 - 1/64 output. Camera shutter-speed at max flash sync speed - typical 1/250 - 1/125. Take test shots to adjust aperture/iso for good subject exposure. Before a hummer arrives pre-focus with single-point focus point or another small focus area mode - doesn't matter much in my experience with this technique - prefocus close to where bird is anticipated. When the hummer hovers or perches to feed focus lock and shoot. The very low flash outputs usually doesn't bother the birds and creates a very quick burst of light to freeze them in flight. Considerably higher image keeper rate. Lots of info on 'net about photographing hummingbirds with flash to freeze them in motion with flash. Another tip is use some kind of tape to temporarily close off all but one feeder port to move the hummers to use just one open port to position them.

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I have been using the central focus point. I half push to illuminate it and immediately full push the shutter button. I do single shot not burst shot. I have not tried burst because I think I may need to reposition the center focal point because the bird moved. I don’t do back button focusing. I can get the wings to look frozen in air because I am using a fast shutter speed for a hovering bird. I am usually at 1/2000 second or above. I did try the cameras flash once. The birds did not return for a couple of days. I think it bothered them. I was close and the flash was very bright.
 
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EnjoyPics said:
I did try the cameras flash once. The birds did not return for a couple of days. I think it bothered them. I was close and the flash was very bright.
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Using high output flash and being too close will scare them away.

The very low off-camera flash outputs I described and being further away with a medium tele lens should work much better.
 
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My best success with hummers has been to set the camera on a tripod and pre-focus on the feeder and wait for them to approach. They tend to come zooming up to the feeder, stop and hover 18"-2' away for a second or two, then dart in and drink. They then zoom backward again for the same distance and hover again for a second or two before darting in to feed. My Nikkor 200-500mm lens cannot focus fast enough to capture these guys during that very brief period that they hover if I had not pre-focused close to that spot beforehand. If memory serves I was mostly using Dynamic 9 with both my D7500 and Z6. I did a lot of work experimenting with hummers during spring and summer of 2020. I had equal success with both cameras. Since then I've replaced the Z6 with a Z6II and sold the D7500. I look forward to trying the Z6II with different focus modes this coming spring and summer.

This one with the Z6

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This one with the D7500

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Never used the 500mm PF, although by all accounts it’s better than the 200-500mm, and apparently faster focusing as well. I bought the 200-500 mm before the 500mm PF was introduced and at more than twice the price I haven’t been able to justify purchasing the 500mm PF.
 
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NA4M said:
My experience with hummers is to try and capture them when they are hovering and not trying to focus, pan, then shoot. Pick a feeding station they use at a flower/plant or feeder.
My best results has been with using 2-3 small cheap off-camera manual flashes with a flash wireless trigger in camera shoe. Position a flash about 45 deg each side of an known feeding point (flower/feeder). A 3rd flash can be used to brighten the background.

Set 2 subject flash outputs quite low - 1/32 - 1/64 output. Camera shutter-speed at max flash sync speed - typical 1/250 - 1/125. Take test shots to adjust aperture/iso for good subject exposure. Before a hummer arrives pre-focus with single-point focus point or another small focus area mode - doesn't matter much in my experience with this technique - prefocus close to where bird is anticipated. When the hummer hovers or perches to feed focus lock and shoot. The very low flash outputs usually doesn't bother the birds and creates a very quick burst of light to freeze them in flight. Considerably higher image keeper rate. Lots of info on 'net about photographing hummingbirds with flash to freeze them in motion with flash. Another tip is use some kind of tape to temporarily close off all but one feeder port to move the hummers to use just one open port to position them.

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Good info. I have multiple flashes with triggers and have been lazy in using them. This would be a great application for them and easy to set up. When our hummers come back (in TX) I’m going to do it!!
 
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Rassie said:
... My best success with hummers has been to set the camera on a tripod and pre-focus on the feeder and wait for them to approach. They tend to come zooming up to the feeder, stop and hover 18"-2' away for a second or two, then dart in and drink. They then zoom backward again for the same distance and hover again for a second or two before darting in to feed.
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Quite right.

This is how I shoot hummingbirds.

Have camera on a tripod and use remote to trip the shutter. Prefocus and trip shutter when hummer is near flower. No need to be looking through the camera. I shoot in manual mode. Use shutter speeds about 1/3200-1/5000. You can adjust to taste for the amount of wing blur you want. I shoot between f5 and f8 depending on light. I use Auto ISO....and don't worry about noise. NR software is so good these days I can eliminate most noise while retaining fine feather details. My Hummer galleries are HERE. Click on an image, then click the "i" button on the left. You will then see all exposure, camera and lens data. You can then use the right arrow to click through other images and see the metadata data for each image.

All the Costa Rica hummers were shot in natural light, my preferred way to photograph them.
 
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Butlerkid said:
Quite right.

This is how I shoot hummingbirds.

Have camera on a tripod and use remote to trip the shutter. Prefocus and trip shutter when hummer is near flower. No need to be looking through the camera. I shoot in manual mode. Use shutter speeds about 1/3200-1/5000. You can adjust to taste for the amount of wing blur you want. I shoot between f5 and f8 depending on light. I use Auto ISO....and don't worry about noise. NR software is so good these days I can eliminate most noise while retaining fine feather details. My Hummer galleries are HERE. Click on an image, then click the "i" button on the left. You will then see all exposure, camera and lens data. You can then use the right arrow to click through other images and see the metadata data for each image.

All the Costa Rica hummers were shot in natural light, my preferred way to photograph them.
Click to expand...
Karen, those are stunning hummingbird images from Costa Rica. Where does one go to capture those?
 
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For hummers I have had great success using Group AF with the D500 and D850 cameras. Group AF with the D750 was a complete bust. The dedicated autofocus processor with the D5, D500, D850 cameras make Group AF much more viable. Pre-focusing is important along with patience with these fast moving birds.
 
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