Canon R5ii & R1 : Orders being taken.

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David Berry

David Berry

🇦🇺 Australia 🦘
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Canon R5ii
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Guts Swanepoel (Pangolin):
  • "I think they [Canon] may have started to listen to us finally about what we, as photographers, need."
  • "My favourite feature is the pre-capture which is in both cameras. Sadly, the R3 and the older R5 will never have it; it remains a hardware issue, not just a software update."


Jan Wegener (Early Bird Show):
  • "Let's look at the R1 first — Canon's new flagship sports camera."
And there's the rub? The R1 is designed for photojournalists; the R5ii is the better choice for enthusiast-level wildlife photographers?
 
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Pre-ordered an R5 Mk2, not sure I won't cancel though--but may as well stick around to be able to have it in-hand and test it when it is delivered. I've been generally pleased with R5 complementing my Z9 and Z8, but R5 has a lot of annoying issues too so perhaps I thought R5 Mk2 would be a marked improvement (no pun intended :)).
 
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Awesome! Some R5 issues I can mention to check for (if possible): BIF tracking "stalling" so that I cannot track the bird reliably, sometimes (also BIF) with the 100-500 lens to be precise, I have a blurred bird in the sky and tap focus (either of the three modes I have configured) and absolutely no joy, it just refuses to focus. Focusing through obstacles, actually Nikon Z8/9 finds the eye now with the latest firmware but R5 struggles. Once R5 found the subject though, I get a better result than with the Nikons. However, it requires some post-processing to get right. Love the Canon colours though, something easily natural about them.
 
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Foxy…

I suspect that the R5ii will draw roughly level with the Z8's wildlife photo performance (no idea on video performance).

Guts Swanepoel (Pangolin) on the R5ii:
  • Suddenly the high megapixel camera (R5ii) has most of the advantages of the R3.
… David

Foxy, maybe I'll start an R5 + RF 100-500 BIF thread for us to explore the issues you raised in post #5. (Don't want to divert this thread.)​
 
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They both look amazing, especially if you're in the Canon universe and are happy with the RF selection. Probably won't cause Sony and Nikon users to switch.
 
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Coming solely from a still perspective (I didn't even read the video specs and wouldn't understand them fully if I did) I'd say both the R1 and R5II are very boring releases. I can't believe these are 4 and 5 year flagship and near flagship replacements in 2024.

I'll speak more towards the R5II as the R1 seems to have nothing special above the R5II for a bird photographer (other than the 40FPS and OLED 9mp EVF).

If one is devoted to the Canon ecosystem for whatever reason then I feel the R5II would be a camera to upgrade to from the R5 just because of the stacked sensor alone. Add to that an extra 10FPS and being able to select 5, 10, 15, 20 instead of being force fed 20FPS only on the R5 in ES.

Other than that though the R5II is just catching up. The ES scan speed matches the 2017 A9 at 1/160 (6.3s)...well short of the A1 1/260 and Z8/Z9 1/270. That should be fine for most bird photography but we can surely understand why they kept the MS. There is pre-capture but it is JPEG only so nothing groundbreaking there .Precapture is Raw with no container so a nice feature...I haven't read yet if it still uses the clunky container file that has to be extracted with Canon crap software or actually can just save the files normally like A9III and Nikon cameras??

I don't know what else there is to really talk about the R5?? It likely has a nicer EVF than the A1 and Z8/Z9 as even the outgoing R5 has a nicer EVF than those two cameras....at least for just the image it produces....but I'm fairly certain even though it has the stacked sensor it will still have a more jarring transition from actively firing a burst to letting off the shutter and back to a real time feed. This is based with my time with the R3's stacked sensor which still had this jarring transition...something the A1 and A9III keep to a bare minimum and the Z8/Z9 have basically eliminated with the dual-feed feature.

Has the bird AF been improved? Who knows? All the articles I've read talk about new sports AF features but nothing about bird/animal stuff. R5 BEAF is still better than A1 and Z8/Z9 IMHO for static birds but not as good as the others for BIF. Maybe they've improved it....we shall have to wait and see. My friend will be buying an R5II I think (unless she uses this as an excuse to move to Nikon or Sony) so I will hope to try the R5II sometime this fall.
 
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Cameron T said:
Honestly, as far as it goes, I'm not super impressed with either. Good for Canon users, but I feel no desire to jump ship.
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Yeah, for stills photography I can’t see any reason anyone would switch to Canon because of these two cameras. They may be good enough to hold onto their current customers but I’m sure they are going to lose some bird photographers to Nikon/Sony after this ho hum release after 4-5 years of waiting and nothing exciting in the lens department for birds.
 
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David Berry said:
Foxy…

I suspect that the R5ii will draw roughly level with the Z8's wildlife photo performance (no idea on video performance).

Guts Swanepoel (Pangolin) on the R5ii:
  • Suddenly the high megapixel camera (R5ii) has most of the advantages of the R3.
… David

Foxy, maybe I'll start an R5 + RF 100-500 BIF thread for us to explore the issues you raised in post #5. (Don't want to divert this thread.)​
Click to expand...
Thanks David, I think a non-partisan thread on R5/II with Nikon parallels would be of value.
 
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arbitrage said:
Yeah, for stills photography I can’t see any reason anyone would switch to Canon because of these two cameras. They may be good enough to hold onto their current customers but I’m sure they are going to lose some bird photographers to Nikon/Sony after this ho hum release after 4-5 years of waiting and nothing exciting in the lens department for birds.
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Even for video, nikon has had 8k for a while now, and Canon is just catching up (I'm not sure if Sony has 8k, but I'm not a video guy either).

The lenses are definitely a larger issue, and imo where nikon has the biggest advantage. Body wise it's hard to go wrong anywhere, and everyone leaps ahead with a new release in some way.
 
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When was the last time, since all three big OEMs went mirrorless, a camera body was a valid reason to switch? Heck, even between the F4 and EOS 1 there was no reason. I wouldn't measure the sucess of a camera body by that metric, let alone its quality and sophistication.
 
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I feel like there are times for more niche cameras (something like the a7c series, or the retro style cameras like fuji/zf/zfc) when people use it to switch. In the more mainline bodies, I'm not sure. The d500 would have been one of those points for a crop body dslr I believe, but probably still didn't convert a ton of people.
 
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Cameron T said:
Even for video, nikon has had 8k for a while now, and Canon is just catching up (I'm not sure if Sony has 8k, but I'm not a video guy either).

The lenses are definitely a larger issue, and imo where nikon has the biggest advantage. Body wise it's hard to go wrong anywhere, and everyone leaps ahead with a new release in some way.
Click to expand...
For video, with the grip, assuming it works as advertised, it has an advantage over the Z8 and A1 for controlling overheating. The Z9 doesn't overheat.
 
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A friend and I both shoot wildlife (he mostly birds, I mammals as well).
When I had my Z7 I was envious of his R5 autofocus performance. But I felt sorry for Canons poor / overpriced wildlife lens selection.
Then I got my Z8, autofocus between us was more or less on par (sometimes I got shots he didn't and sometimes the other way around). I still felt sorry for him for the lack of a good lens selection compared to Nikon.
After this R5ii announcement today, now I also feel sorry for him for the camera selection / evolution. Way overpriced for a lower read out compared to my Z8.. Maybe the R5ii has qualities for wildlife shooting that are not as easy to write down (maybe the eye-driven AF turns out to be really useful?), but purely based on numbers I just feel sorry for him. But time will tell the whole story eventually..
 
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I've only seen the B&H video on the R1, but there are some impressive features - for sports where it follows the player who has the ball is very impressive as well as the 'noted player' focussing priority - real sports issue where you have to get shots of the new player in a team, milestone match etc. Canon shooters will love this camera.

Hope the firmware updates are coming soon for the Z9 with a few new silver bullets 😊
 
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hef19898 said:
When was the last time, since all three big OEMs went mirrorless, a camera body was a valid reason to switch? Heck, even between the F4 and EOS 1 there was no reason. I wouldn't measure the sucess of a camera body by that metric, let alone its quality and sophistication.
Click to expand...
I understand that sentiment. But for me, it is actually the cameras that drive me to think about system switches way more than the lenses these days.
I mostly shoot 600/4....all three brands have similar weight 600/4s with only Nikon's having the extra carrot on the stick with the built-in TC. Still at this point as I rarely shoot 840/5.6 it isn't enough to make me switch away from what is IMO a much better bird camera in the A1 over the Z8/Z9.
I have lusted over Nikon 400/4.5 and 600PF but now that I have the 300GM it has removed any want I had for those two lenses.
Nothing in the Canon lens lineup tempts me what so ever anymore....400DOII was the last "must have" Canon lens for me. But that is bested in almost every way by the 300GM and Z600PF and Z400/4.5.

I look to new features in the cameras to drive me to possibly switch. Features like well implemented RAW pre-capture which to date has only been seen in the A9III. But the A9III is too low of MP for my shooting these days. Features like 30FPS 50MP RAW files that I've enjoyed since 2021. Features like excellent BEAF which all three brands have. Features like well implement custom button options and number of custom buttons available (still largely dominated by Sony, followed by Canon with Nikon way behind).

These days the only lens I could dream up that would have me give up some of my preferred camera features and settle for a less featured camera would be a 600 f/4 DO/PF with 1.4TC built-in....or a 400/2.8 of the same. Can't think of anything else.
 
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arbitrage said:
I understand that sentiment. But for me, it is actually the cameras that drive me to think about system switches way more than the lenses these days.
I mostly shoot 600/4....all three brands have similar weight 600/4s with only Nikon's having the extra carrot on the stick with the built-in TC. Still at this point as I rarely shoot 840/5.6 it isn't enough to make me switch away from what is IMO a much better bird camera in the A1 over the Z8/Z9.
I have lusted over Nikon 400/4.5 and 600PF but now that I have the 300GM it has removed any want I had for those two lenses.
Nothing in the Canon lens lineup tempts me what so ever anymore....400DOII was the last "must have" Canon lens for me. But that is bested in almost every way by the 300GM and Z600PF and Z400/4.5.

I look to new features in the cameras to drive me to possibly switch. Features like well implemented RAW pre-capture which to date has only been seen in the A9III. But the A9III is too low of MP for my shooting these days. Features like 30FPS 50MP RAW files that I've enjoyed since 2021. Features like excellent BEAF which all three brands have. Features like well implement custom button options and number of custom buttons available (still largely dominated by Sony, followed by Canon with Nikon way behind).

These days the only lens I could dream up that would have me give up some of my preferred camera features and settle for a less featured camera would be a 600 f/4 DO/PF with 1.4TC built-in....or a 400/2.8 of the same. Can't think of anything else.
Click to expand...
What about the "native" 800mm or 1200mm Canon? Any wants there?
 
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bcgFollower said:
A friend and I both shoot wildlife (he mostly birds, I mammals as well).
When I had my Z7 I was envious of his R5 autofocus performance. But I felt sorry for Canons poor / overpriced wildlife lens selection.
Then I got my Z8, autofocus between us was more or less on par (sometimes I got shots he didn't and sometimes the other way around). I still felt sorry for him for the lack of a good lens selection compared to Nikon.
After this R5ii announcement today, now I also feel sorry for him for the camera selection / evolution. Way overpriced for a lower read out compared to my Z8.. Maybe the R5ii has qualities for wildlife shooting that are not as easy to write down (maybe the eye-driven AF turns out to be really useful?), but purely based on numbers I just feel sorry for him. But time will tell the whole story eventually..
Click to expand...
Having a firm second system (Canon) now, for what it's worth, the AF performance of R5 for birds is not something I'll say is superior to Nikon. I had thought it was based on reading/watching YT, but in my case, it turned out not to be the case. Having said that, the AF is very good for humans in R5, but I'm sure Sony's is even better. I really like the result once focused with Canon though: given similar shutter and aperture and all other conditions similar. My 100-500mm is a great lens but I might add an exotic to that at the longer range.
 
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Just curious how much real world difference it would make regarding rolling shutter as far as the z8 readout speed compared to the r5ii? Would both freeze a flapping wing? Freeze a hummingbird? At what point or scenario would an R5ii user want to switch to mechanical or first curtain for fear of rolling shutter?
 
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