comparing mirrorless cameras.

[LAR]

I'm a long time Nikon shooter and have a D810. Have been considering a mirrorless but am wondering how the newest Nikons compare to Sony, etc. I am excited to see that Nikon now has the ability for me to attach my current lenses, so that alone is a huge plus. I'm guessing it would be a fairly intuitive switch to another Nikon. I have worried about Nikon being one of the last to the table with mirrorless and wonder if you think they are now becoming "caught up" with the rest of the herd. Are they out in front of the other brands in any ways...behind in others. Big subject, I know. Thanks for any thoughts.......Linda

 

[Steve]

They are currently well behind Sony and Canon for any kind of action work. However, don't read too much into it.

Historically, camera companies are always leap-frogging each other. Nikon is rumored to have a Z6/7 "S" in the works that may very well catch back up to the others or even exceed them. If you already have a lot invested in Nikon, I'd hold tight for a bit and see what the "s" variants of the Z6/7 are like. If they don't at least catch up with those cameras, that's when I'd start thinking about a switch. However, at this point I think I'd wait and see.

Also, as you mention, it's easier to go to Nikon mirrorless from Nikon DSLRs to other mirrorless brands.

 

[LAR]

THANK YOU.....Great info, and since I'm still in the pondering mode I'll sit and wait.

 

[MartyD]

I was a Nikon DX shooter for many years and was primarily shooting with my D500. I purchased a Z6 when it was first released and now have 130,000+ shutter actuations. I originally purchased the Z6 to move to full frame and to take it on a few trips to Europe. The high ISO performance and the 12fps made me give it a try for sports and I have been very happy with it. I primarily shoot youth and high school sports but also did some division 1 volleyball last fall. I also like to shoot wildlife but have not done any birds in flight. The only Z mount lens I have is the 24-70 f4 lens. I have the 70-200 f2.8 FL, the 200-500, 70-300 AF-P, and I have also used the 50 f1.8 F mount lenses with the FTZ adapter. Here are my thoughts on the move from DSLR to mirrorless. I know this is not a sports photography forum but my experiences shooting sports transitioned well to shooting wildlife.

I love the EVF! I have spent 8 hours at a poorly lit wrestling tournament and the EVF is just great on the eyes. I now pickup my D500 and think who turned the lights out!

The focus speed is excellent, the difficulty is keeping the focus points on a moving target while panning. The EVF/shutter lag is the biggest issue to get used to. I have really worked on fine tuning my focus settings for specific situations and that helps.

I don't use the face/eye tracking that much but have found that it has worked fine for me when I needed it.

I have never used 3D tracking much, even on my D500, it just didn't seem to work consistently enough in the situations I was using it in to trust it. I haven't given it much of a trial on my Z6 and that is my fault.

I really wish that the Z6 had group focus point mode.

I was concerned initially that there was no grip with controls available. I just haven't missed it.

I have started to shoot more videos with my Z6 than I ever expected to. I think the biggest advantage to shooting video with mirrorless is being able to use the EVF. I think it is difficult at times to shoot video with live view. This is especially true if you are hand holding and in bright sunlight.

Now to be honest, if money were no object for me I would own a D5 or D6, but that is just not realistic at this point. I am sure the s versions of the Z6 and Z7 are going to be better but I certainly don't regret purchasing the Z6. I will also give the s versions a consideration when they are released.

 

[BillW]

I have had a Z7 Since December of 2018. I liked it so much I bought a Z6 to go with it last year.

Like you, I am a long-time Nikon user. I can’t compare Nikon mirrorless to Sony or Canon which I have not used personally, but believe I may still have some relevant thoughts.

First, when you pick up a Z7 or Z6 (and I expect the same would be true of the Z50 and Z5, although I have not used one of those bodies), it feels like a Nikon and many elements seemed familiar. Of course there are important differences in the Z bodies as compared to the DSLRs bodies, especially in autofocus. If you get a Z body, you should get the mirrorless edition of Steve’s book on Nikon autofocus. Very good and very useful. And written from the perspective of a wildlife phtographer. Thom Hogan’s Z7/Z6 book is also very good. I have both.

Nikon F mount glass works perfectly well on a Z body with the FTZ adapter, as long as it has a focus motor — generally AF-S and AF-P lenses. Scew-drive lenses will not autofocus on the FTZ adapter, although they will work in manual focus.

While the autofocus system of the Nikon Z bodies is not as good as the current generation of Nikon DSLRs for fast action, it is very good and in many ways better in my experience for other situations. For stationary or slowly moving objects, I find I generally get better autofocus results with my Z bodies than with my DSLRs (a D500 and D850, which I kept for several reasons, including birds in flight and fast action). That may be because the autofocus points fill the frame, so you can always put on autofocus point where you want it. Or perhaps because focus tuning is generally not needed. Or perhaps because it will focus with f8 lenses (e.g., a 500 mm PF + 1.4x TC) and all autofocus points still work. And the Z bodies are decent for birds in flight. Yes, the D500 and D850 are better for birds in flight and of course the D5 and D6 are even better (although I have not used them). But the D500 and D850 are also better for birds in flight than the D810 that you have. I am not sure how the Z bodies would compare to a D810 — while I had a D810 in the past, I traded it in when I got my D850 and so never had it at the same time as the Z7 or Z6.

The Z bodies also work quite well for manual focus, with focus peaking visible in the EVF and with magnification modes.

Z mount lenses are very good. I’m not a pro or a lens tester, but they seem better to me than their F mount counterparts in many cases, espcially in the corners and at the edges.

The Z bodies lack the ability to change autofocus areas with a single button press and the EVF has a disorienting slideshow effect at the highest frame rates. These would be the first two things I would change if I could and hope they will be different in any Z7s/Z6s version released or other new model.

Since I got the Z7, I have used it more than any of my other bodies. I have used my Z7 and Z6 extensively for wildlife photography, particularly with the 300 mm and 500 mm PF lenses (with and without the 1.4x TCIII) and with the 70-300 AF-P FX lens. They are light and nicely balanced. I particularly like using them in canoes and kayaks and when hiking.

Of course, If I did not have a Z7 or Z6 now, I might wait to see what is introduced next. Hopefully that will be soon.

 

[Rodamu]

Most of the time I use a D850. Recently I bought a Z50 because it is small and (with an adpoter) can use the standard Niknon lens. Coupled with the DX 16-50 mm lens, the body and lens will fit in a large pocket. The lens takes high quality photos. RG's Hunter Pro 45 holster bag will hold the camera with a long lens and the 16-50 will fit in the front accessory pouch. It is a great system if you want to travel light. The Z6 & Z7 are slightly larger than the Z50 but a still a light'weight alternative to the DSLRs.

 

[JoyceS]

I'm a long time Nikon shooter and have a D810. Have been considering a mirrorless but am wondering how the newest Nikons compare to Sony, etc. I am excited to see that Nikon now has the ability for me to attach my current lenses, so that alone is a huge plus. I'm guessing it would be a fairly intuitive switch to another Nikon. I have worried about Nikon being one of the last to the table with mirrorless and wonder if you think they are now becoming "caught up" with the rest of the herd. Are they out in front of the other brands in any ways...behind in others. Big subject, I know. Thanks for any thoughts.......Linda

I purchased the Nikon Z50 with lenses and bunch of other items on 2/14/20. I am disappointed in it and find myself defaulting to my D500. Even with the weight of the D500 and whatever lens I use, I like the heft and feel I can handhold so much better. The Z50 feels like a toy camera to me and even though it has a continuous mode, it really cannot get birds in flight. The kit came with 2 lenses and an adaptor (for other lenses) I purchased David Busch's guide to learn to better use and appreciate the Z50, but I admit I have not taken the time to read the 350 page guide. I wish I had tried my friend's Z50 before my purchase to see if I would like it. If you know of someone who has any of the Z's, check it out first there.

 

[Anjin San]

I'm thinking that if I were to go mirrorless I would stick with Nikon and hopefully by then some of the "behind the competition" of the Z series will be overcome by the rumored Zs series. That said…I would have to figure out whether the Z7 or Z6 was the way to go. From one standpoint…going from my current D7500 (which I would clearly keep for action photography unless the Zs series solved those problems) then I'm losing effective focal length on my Tamron 150-600 G2…which means more cropping so that the 24MP Z6 would effectively be something less as far as actual pixels on the bird/elk/bear/whatever…so that would push me toward the Z7 so as not to lose IQ. Yes…FF has larger pixels and less noise and all that jazz…but detail in the final shot is largely controlled by pixels on target after all the other considerations are dealt with. However…obviously the Z7 is more $$, slightly slower frame rate, and less ISO range (although even the 7 has more than the D7500 for both frame rate and ISO). If the price difference remains at the current about $1,000…the Z7 seems like the way to go to me. Almost all of my images are used for my travel blog and while there are a lot of landscapes, waterfalls, and the like…wildlife is probably more than 50% of posted images and generally I prefer larger subjects in the frame…which means more cropping so the 45MP Z7 would give better IQ for the tiger face or whatever…albeit at the expense of some frame rate and ISO performance. I would have to do some more review of the reviews to see if the noise in the Z7 is the same as the Z6…with almost double the pixels then they're obviously individually smaller, probably closer to the size of the pixels in the crop D7500 than to the size of the pixels in the Z6 and smaller pixels are going to introduce more noise…I would need to figure out whether the gain in pixels on target is outweighed by the extra noise.

Speaking of the Z series…do they still have the F8 limitation for autofocus or is that gone away with the improved focusing system? If so…then adding a 1.4 TC to the Tamron would get me back to the same pixels on target I have with the D7500 but I would obviously want more of them if I can get them and the drawbacks aren't too limiting. Yeah…I could manual focus when the TC was on but that makes it pretty much unusable for BIF or action shots.

Ah…too many decisions I guess…but it's always nice to dream about new toys ya know.

 

[Steve]

I'm thinking that if I were to go mirrorless I would stick with Nikon and hopefully by then some of the "behind the competition" of the Z series will be overcome by the rumored Zs series. That said…I would have to figure out whether the Z7 or Z6 was the way to go. From one standpoint…going from my current D7500 (which I would clearly keep for action photography unless the Zs series solved those problems) then I'm losing effective focal length on my Tamron 150-600 G2…which means more cropping so that the 24MP Z6 would effectively be something less as far as actual pixels on the bird/elk/bear/whatever…so that would push me toward the Z7 so as not to lose IQ. Yes…FF has larger pixels and less noise and all that jazz…but detail in the final shot is largely controlled by pixels on target after all the other considerations are dealt with. However…obviously the Z7 is more $$, slightly slower frame rate, and less ISO range (although even the 7 has more than the D7500 for both frame rate and ISO). If the price difference remains at the current about $1,000…the Z7 seems like the way to go to me. Almost all of my images are used for my travel blog and while there are a lot of landscapes, waterfalls, and the like…wildlife is probably more than 50% of posted images and generally I prefer larger subjects in the frame…which means more cropping so the 45MP Z7 would give better IQ for the tiger face or whatever…albeit at the expense of some frame rate and ISO performance. I would have to do some more review of the reviews to see if the noise in the Z7 is the same as the Z6…with almost double the pixels then they're obviously individually smaller, probably closer to the size of the pixels in the crop D7500 than to the size of the pixels in the Z6 and smaller pixels are going to introduce more noise…I would need to figure out whether the gain in pixels on target is outweighed by the extra noise.

Speaking of the Z series…do they still have the F8 limitation for autofocus or is that gone away with the improved focusing system? If so…then adding a 1.4 TC to the Tamron would get me back to the same pixels on target I have with the D7500 but I would obviously want more of them if I can get them and the drawbacks aren't too limiting. Yeah…I could manual focus when the TC was on but that makes it pretty much unusable for BIF or action shots.

Ah…too many decisions I guess…but it's always nice to dream about new toys ya know.

Solid thought process.

As for the F/8 limit, it's not there anymore. The problem with the DLSRs is that it's not so much they can't use the lower light levels to focus, but the physical light path to the AF sensors was blocked because of the smaller F/stop (to focus, the AF sensors have to look at the subject through opposite sides of the lens). With the new mount and on-sensor PDAF (especially on-sensor PDAF), these light-path limitations are gone. I've had success focusing all over the frame at F/8 and even F/9.5. Others have reported success with F/11 glass (2x on a 5.6 lens).

Still, you're not getting as much light so F/8 translates into higher ISO or lower shutter speeds - and less subject isolation.

 

[Anjin San]

Solid thought process.

As for the F/8 limit, it's not there anymore. The problem with the DLSRs is that it's not so much they can't use the lower light levels to focus, but the physical light path to the AF sensors was blocked because of the smaller F/stop (to focus, the AF sensors have to look at the subject through opposite sides of the lens). With the new mount and on-sensor PDAF (especially on-sensor PDAF), these light-path limitations are gone. I've had success focusing all over the frame at F/8 and even F/9.5. Others have reported success with F/11 glass (2x on a 5.6 lens).

Still, you're not getting as much light so F/8 translates into higher ISO or lower shutter speeds - and less subject isolation.

Thanks Steve…hadn't thought about it like that but it does make sense so perhaps the Z6 and a TC for the Tamron…or even the Z7 and the TC for when I really need to crop just because I can't get any closer…is the way to go. I understand all the discussion about pixel dumping on the higher resolution sensors…but that's not really a consideration for heavily cropped shots. I assume you've shot both the Z7 and Z6…have you noticed any appreciable difference in either noise or overall IQ between the two bodies?

 

[Steve]

Thanks Steve…hadn't thought about it like that but it does make sense so perhaps the Z6 and a TC for the Tamron…or even the Z7 and the TC for when I really need to crop just because I can't get any closer…is the way to go. I understand all the discussion about pixel dumping on the higher resolution sensors…but that's not really a consideration for heavily cropped shots. I assume you've shot both the Z7 and Z6…have you noticed any appreciable difference in either noise or overall IQ between the two bodies?

The Z6 really is cleaner at higher ISOs - even if you downsample the Z7 to the same size. Still, the Z7 is my go-to for most of my work - but remember I have a D6 as well for low light work, so that makes a difference.

 

[JoeHe]

What about a Fuji X-T3 or X-T4 for wildlife? (Paired with the Fuji 100-400mm and 1.4x.) I know most of us are Nikon shooters, but I love my Fujis for travel, street, family, candid etc. and think about giving it a try for birds... What do you think?