Confused about exposure compensation on Z8

[Matt N]

Okay, so I really enjoyed the 800pf when I rented it, so I finally broke down and bought the Z8 and 800pf. But I also have the Canon R5 and I'm confused about the exposure compesation display on the Z8. I've taken annotated pictures of the LCD to demonstrate.

Here is a picture of the LCD on my Canon R5 where I've set the EC to +1 and the camera is "ready to shoot". While shooting, I can clearly see that I have +1 EC at all times. The viewfinder shows the same.

Here is a picture of the Z8 WHILE I'M CHANGING THE EC (I press the EC button and use the front scroll wheel to change it). I can clearly see the value (+1) of my EC both in the graph on the right and the yellow text at the bottom.

Now here is the Z8 after I've completed the EC change and I'm back to shooting. The graph on the right goes back to 0, but there is an icon at the bottom indicating that EC is in effect (but I have no idea how much). If I take a picture, it does use the +1 EC, even though the display doesn't show that.

So I'm hoping that I'm doing something wrong here because if not, the graph on the right is basically useless while shooting. If it's always going to show 0, why is it even there? I'm looking for a way to clearly see what value my EC is set to while I'm looking through the viewfinder and shooting, like I can on the Canon R5. Is this possible?

 

[Cameron T]

Because you're in manual mode, you're telling the camera what the scene should actually be at instead of letting it determine what it thinks 0 ec should be. It makes perfect sense to me.

That said, it could be a toggleable option somewhere.

 

[DRwyoming]

Okay, so I really enjoyed the 800pf when I rented it, so I finally broke down and bought the Z8 and 800pf. But I also have the Canon R5 and I'm confused about the exposure compesation display on the Z8. I've taken annotated pictures of the LCD to demonstrate.

Here is a picture of the LCD on my Canon R5 where I've set the EC to +1 and the camera is "ready to shoot". While shooting, I can clearly see that I have +1 EC at all times. The viewfinder shows the same.
View attachment 76115

Here is a picture of the Z8 WHILE I'M CHANGING THE EC (I press the EC button and use the front scroll wheel to change it). I can clearly see the value (+1) of my EC both in the graph on the right and the yellow text at the bottom.
View attachment 76120

Now here is the Z8 after I've completed the EC change and I'm back to shooting. The graph on the right goes back to 0, but there is an icon at the bottom indicating that EC is in effect (but I have no idea how much). If I take a picture, it does use the +1 EC, even though the display doesn't show that.
View attachment 76121

So I'm hoping that I'm doing something wrong here because if not, the graph on the right is basically useless while shooting. If it's always going to show 0, why is it even there? I'm looking for a way to clearly see what value my EC is set to while I'm looking through the viewfinder and shooting, like I can on the Canon R5. Is this possible?

When you're shooting in Manual mode (auto or fixed ISO) the vertical graph you see on the side of the viewfinder while shooting is NOT the exposure compensation scale, it's an exposure meter(basically a light meter that takes into account camera settings). When you shoot full manual with manual ISO that makes perfect sense as you want to check the exposure meter to know if you need to make any adjustments to aperture, shutter speed or ISO. But when shooting manual with auto ISO that exposure meter stays centered on zero as that's what happens in any auto exposure mode, the camera adjusts to keep the exposure centered on zero unless you hit a set high or low limit in the floating parameter (i.e. ISO when shooting manual with auto ISO)

If you shoot other auto exposure modes like Aperture or Shutter Priority or full Program mode you don't see an exposure meter while shooting, you see the exposure compensation scale any time you have anything other than 0 stops of exposure comp dialed in. But when shooting in any form of Manual mode that meter you see after any exposure adjustments are complete isn't an exposure comp scale, it's an exposure meter and yup it will stay centered on zero when shooting Manual with Auto ISO until you hit a high or low ISO limit and the camera can no longer auto adjust to keep the exposure meter centered.

Nikon could have done a better job of handling the viewfinder interface when shooting Manual with Auto ISO but that's how it works.

FWIW, this trips folks up all the time and just a couple of days ago there was another thread where a forum member struggled a bit with this. Here's the slightly longer explanation I posted in that thread: https://bcgforums.com/threads/questions-about-auto-iso-and-manual-exposure.30355/post-342341

 

[MrFotoFool]

I had the same confusion with my Z8 when I started using auto ISO (with manual exposure mode). When I used to use Aperture Priority the exposure meter would always show the amount of exposure compensation I had set. When I started using auto ISO with manual the exposure meter would go back to the middle no matter how much compensation I set. It turns out, this is just how Nikon works in manual mode (whether or not you are using auto ISO). It was explained to me in post 19 of this thread: https://bcgforums.com/threads/questions-about-auto-iso-and-manual-exposure.30355/

 

[Matt N]

Thanks Dave for the lengthy explanation and link to the other thread. I guess I'll just have to get used to it. I definitely like the Canon display for EC better, but Canon doesn't have a 800mm 6.3, so I guess we can't have it all.

 

[meyesme]

Nah, none of that is good UI. When I set exposure compensation to X, I want the camera to show me that I set it to X, not just that I set it. Furthermore, I don't even agree that exposure scale should be at zero when I have forced ISO to be higher or lower than what the camera thinks would be ideal. I want it to tell me, "Hey, according to me, you are underexposing this. (or over). It's only when I have not set exposure compensation should that scale always be at zero (for auto iso) because the camera is indeed setting "perfect" exposure. Nikon is very bad at UI design.

 

[SCoombs]

I understand why people would want it to work as some have described, but I find it useful and, maybe it's just because I'm used to it, but also intuitive.

The way I think about how it works is that the camera is always evaluating the scene based on the user's settings and telling the user how the exposure is relative to what the user has told the camera it wants. If the user doesn't set the exposure compensation, then the user wants an exposure that matches the camera's own meter. In this case, the guage on the side will report 0 if actual exposure matches the meter and +/- if it doesn't.

If the user has set an exposure compensation, then the user has told the camera he/she has already disagreed with the camera's meter and wants something different. In this case, the camera uses the guage to tell the user how the exposure lines up with what the user wants. If the user wanted to underexpose by 2 stops but the settings are at their limit - maybe it's already at ISO 64 - and it's not possible to get the exposure the user asked for unless the user changes something else, the guage will show that the exposure is higher than the user asked for.

This helps me all the time. For instance, I was recently trying to shoot some low key photos of a duck and so I set the EC to -2. The I was showing a +1.3 exposure, which revealed to me that the ISO was at 64 and if I wanted to underexpose as much as I'd intended I needed to increase the shutter speed.

If not for the guage working like it does, I never would have known that my desired exposure was impossible without my making additional adjustments. To me this makes perfect sense and I can't imagine it working any other way. The thing is, if I've set exposure compensation then by definition I don't want to really know what the camera is metering. I've already rejected it. What I care about is how the actual exposure compares to what I set. The guage, as implemented, shows me this.

On a Canon, for instance, if I set exposure compensation but the actual exposure can't match it because something is at its limit, how do I know, and how do I know by how much the actual exposure differs from what I want?

 

[meyesme]

I understand why people would want it to work as some have described, but I find it useful and, maybe it's just because I'm used to it, but also intuitive.

The way I think about how it works is that the camera is always evaluating the scene based on the user's settings and telling the user how the exposure is relative to what the user has told the camera it wants. If the user doesn't set the exposure compensation, then the user wants an exposure that matches the camera's own meter. In this case, the guage on the side will report 0 if actual exposure matches the meter and +/- if it doesn't.

If the user has set an exposure compensation, then the user has told the camera he/she has already disagreed with the camera's meter and wants something different. In this case, the camera uses the guage to tell the user how the exposure lines up with what the user wants. If the user wanted to underexpose by 2 stops but the settings are at their limit - maybe it's already at ISO 64 - and it's not possible to get the exposure the user asked for unless the user changes something else, the guage will show that the exposure is higher than the user asked for.

This helps me all the time. For instance, I was recently trying to shoot some low key photos of a duck and so I set the EC to -2. The I was showing a +1.3 exposure, which revealed to me that the ISO was at 64 and if I wanted to underexpose as much as I'd intended I needed to increase the shutter speed.

If not for the guage working like it does, I never would have known that my desired exposure was impossible without my making additional adjustments. To me this makes perfect sense and I can't imagine it working any other way. The thing is, if I've set exposure compensation then by definition I don't want to really know what the camera is metering. I've already rejected it. What I care about is how the actual exposure compares to what I set. The guage, as implemented, shows me this.

On a Canon, for instance, if I set exposure compensation but the actual exposure can't match it because something is at its limit, how do I know, and how do I know by how much the actual exposure differs from what I want?

If the camera can't do it, it should show an "I can't do what you want" indicator. For example, if ISO can't go any lower, blink the ISO number in red.