Crossroads

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Hi there,
I’m an 80:20 (landscape:wildlife) amateur photographer. For my landscapes I’ve decided that going mirrorless is the way forward for me (d810 sold). I’m really torn what to do with my wildlife. I was hoping the z6ii (z7ii for me) would be the camera to square the circle, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I’ve been using the Nikkor 200-500 and the 300mm f4 + 1.4 ext., first on my d810 and now on a z50 (which I borrowed from my son from time to time :))).
The options are either go with the Z7ii.... or get the original z7 and the d500...for the same price. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. :))
 
I’ve started out with wildlife about 9 months ago, when a pair of Kestrels were nesting close by and lockdown in the UK had just begun. I got really hooked and it’s big part of the enjoyment I take in my photography. I shoot about 60% birds/BIF and 40% mammals.
 
I disagree that the Z6 or Z7 or their sequels are unsuitable for wildlife. Of course they are. They have limitations, but then, so does even the D6. I think a Z7II will be a great camera for all the but the most demanding wildlife photographer.

The Z7II is no better at wildlife photography than the Z7, so yes, the second option of Z7 + D500 is a great combination and I like having a pair of cameras (D850 + Z6) for wildlife so I can have a shorter lens on the Z6 with the primary lens on D850.
 
In landscape terms both z7’s offer more than enough for me. I’m a 100% stills shooter, never touched video and not tempted to change that. I don’t need a vertical grip or a second card slot (although it’s nice, when you still have a card in after you’ve forgotten to put it back after downloading the pics, lol). I have been waiting for the Z7ii (I know it’s not out yet but I guess AF performance will be similar to the z6ii) to get a versatile Allrounder to shoot mainly landscapes but BIF as well. I was hoping for an upgrade in AF performance from the d810 (and z50). I don’t shoot portraits so eye AF is not important, but the possibility to add real animal eye AF in firmware at some point keeps my desire for the Z7ii alive. I’ve never shot with z6 or z7, so don’t know what it’s like. Shooting the z50 is mixed bag for me, lots of hunting in more complex backgrounds, OK with clear skies etc.. I avoid tracking mode and got best results with dynamic area. I know a lot is practice and trying out different af modes for different scenarios. I probably would be happy with anything better/quicker/more sticky than my previous d810 or z50.
 
A few thoughts:

The Z7II isn't out, so we don't know for sure. But I won't let that stop me! I use both DSLRs (D500 and D850) and mirrorless (Z6 and Z7). I am planning to upgrade my Zs to the Z6II and Z7II.

For landscape use, unless you care about two card slots, I would expect the Z7 and Z7II to be essentially equivalent. Autofocus for landscape use should be better with either of those models than your D810 (which of course isn't bad at all -- I had one before I got a D850). I think this is (i) because focus points cover the frame, so you can focus wherever you want; (ii) focusing on the sensor seems more precise and repeatable; and (iii) there is less need to focus tune lenses. If you go with some native Z mount lenses, you will also find that they are often better than their F mount counterparts, especially in the corners and at the edges which can be nice for landscape use. (No criticism of DSLRs and F mount lenses -- I have liked mine for a long time and still use them.)

For wildlife use, I would expect that the Z7II will be better than the Z7. Steve and others have noticed improvements in the autofocus system in the Z6II as compared to the Z6. I would expect a similar improvement in the Z7II as compared to the Z7, although we will want to see when the Z7II is in people's hands, especially Steve, Thom Hogan and Brad Hill. The Z7II also has a bigger buffer, which may be useful for BIF and other action. I believe that Steve said on this forum that while the Z6II is not up to the standards of a D6 or even D850, it "gets the job done" for BIF.

The Z7 and Z6 are already decent wildlife cameras and I expect the II versions will be better. Not all birds are in flight. I often photograph waterbirds, wading birds, and perched birds -- in these cases, I prefer my Z7 with a 500 mm PF over my D500 or D850. I have also shot BIF with the Z7 and 500 mm PF (sometimes with a 1.4x TCIII). It's not bad, once you get to know and get used to the autofocus system, especially for larger and slower birds - eagles, swans, sandhill cranes, egrets, geese, pelicans and the like. The autofocus system is different than the one in Nikon DSLRs. Steve's book on Nikon mirrorless autofocus would be very helpful (I believe Steve has said he is planning to update it for the new ZII models). Also consider Thom Hogan's e-books on the Zs (there will be a new one for the Z7II and Z6II).

Many compare the Z cameras to the D850. But you have a D810. I recall the D850 was a material step up from the D810 as a wildlife camera. You may find that the Z7II is also a step up from the D810, even if it is not quite a D850.

There are some things in the Zs that Nikon could and should improve with firmware -- e.g., allowing selection of autofocus area with a single button press. I am hoping for firmware updates to the Zs, especially the ZIIs as we go forward. No guarantees here, although I would think it would be a smart move for Nikon. One thing that may or may not be fixable with firmware is the slideshow effect when using high extended to get more FPS. It makes following BIF difficult, when compared to the slower, regular high mode or to a DSLR.

All that said, there's nothing wrong with a Z7 and D500 combination. I used that combo last year on a trip to Gwaii Haanas (the D500 with a 500 mm PF and the Z7 with a 70-200 mm f2.8E FL lens). As things stand now, purely for BIF and other fast action, the D500 (and D850) is better than the Z7 and Z6 and probably also the Z7II and Z6II.
 
I disagree that the Z6 or Z7 or their sequels are unsuitable for wildlife. Of course they are. They have limitations, but then, so does even the D6. I think a Z7II will be a great camera for all the but the most demanding wildlife photographer.

The Z7II is no better at wildlife photography than the Z7, so yes, the second option of Z7 + D500 is a great combination and I like having a pair of cameras (D850 + Z6) for wildlife so I can have a shorter lens on the Z6 with the primary lens on D850.
Thanks Sean, it’s really appreciated. I try to minimise my gear as much as possible, but without compromising of what I do. I guess there is no easy solution, but to make a decision :)) thanks again.
 
A few thoughts:

The Z7II isn't out, so we don't know for sure. But I won't let that stop me! I use both DSLRs (D500 and D850) and mirrorless (Z6 and Z7). I am planning to upgrade my Zs to the Z6II and Z7II.

For landscape use, unless you care about two card slots, I would expect the Z7 and Z7II to be essentially equivalent. Autofocus for landscape use should be better with either of those models than your D810 (which of course isn't bad at all -- I had one before I got a D850). I think this is (i) because focus points cover the frame, so you can focus wherever you want; (ii) focusing on the sensor seems more precise and repeatable; and (iii) there is less need to focus tune lenses. If you go with some native Z mount lenses, you will also find that they are often better than their F mount counterparts, especially in the corners and at the edges which can be nice for landscape use. (No criticism of DSLRs and F mount lenses -- I have liked mine for a long time and still use them.)

For wildlife use, I would expect that the Z7II will be better than the Z7. Steve and others have noticed improvements in the autofocus system in the Z6II as compared to the Z6. I would expect a similar improvement in the Z7II as compared to the Z7, although we will want to see when the Z7II is in people's hands, especially Steve, Thom Hogan and Brad Hill. The Z7II also has a bigger buffer, which may be useful for BIF and other action. I believe that Steve said on this forum that while the Z6II is not up to the standards of a D6 or even D850, it "gets the job done" for BIF.

The Z7 and Z6 are already decent wildlife cameras and I expect the II versions will be better. Not all birds are in flight. I often photograph waterbirds, wading birds, and perched birds -- in these cases, I prefer my Z7 with a 500 mm PF over my D500 or D850. I have also shot BIF with the Z7 and 500 mm PF (sometimes with a 1.4x TCIII). It's not bad, once you get to know and get used to the autofocus system, especially for larger and slower birds - eagles, swans, sandhill cranes, egrets, geese, pelicans and the like. The autofocus system is different than the one in Nikon DSLRs. Steve's book on Nikon mirrorless autofocus would be very helpful (I believe Steve has said he is planning to update it for the new ZII models). Also consider Thom Hogan's e-books on the Zs (there will be a new one for the Z7II and Z6II).

Many compare the Z cameras to the D850. But you have a D810. I recall the D850 was a material step up from the D810 as a wildlife camera. You may find that the Z7II is also a step up from the D810, even if it is not quite a D850.

There are some things in the Zs that Nikon could and should improve with firmware -- e.g., allowing selection of autofocus area with a single button press. I am hoping for firmware updates to the Zs, especially the ZIIs as we go forward. No guarantees here, although I would think it would be a smart move for Nikon. One thing that may or may not be fixable with firmware is the slideshow effect when using high extended to get more FPS. It makes following BIF difficult, when compared to the slower, regular high mode or to a DSLR.

All that said, there's nothing wrong with a Z7 and D500 combination. I used that combo last year on a trip to Gwaii Haanas (the D500 with a 500 mm PF and the Z7 with a 70-200 mm f2.8E FL lens). As things stand now, purely for BIF and other fast action, the D500 (and D850) is better than the Z7 and Z6 and probably also the Z7II and Z6II.
A few thoughts:

The Z7II isn't out, so we don't know for sure. But I won't let that stop me! I use both DSLRs (D500 and D850) and mirrorless (Z6 and Z7). I am planning to upgrade my Zs to the Z6II and Z7II.

For landscape use, unless you care about two card slots, I would expect the Z7 and Z7II to be essentially equivalent. Autofocus for landscape use should be better with either of those models than your D810 (which of course isn't bad at all -- I had one before I got a D850). I think this is (i) because focus points cover the frame, so you can focus wherever you want; (ii) focusing on the sensor seems more precise and repeatable; and (iii) there is less need to focus tune lenses. If you go with some native Z mount lenses, you will also find that they are often better than their F mount counterparts, especially in the corners and at the edges which can be nice for landscape use. (No criticism of DSLRs and F mount lenses -- I have liked mine for a long time and still use them.)

For wildlife use, I would expect that the Z7II will be better than the Z7. Steve and others have noticed improvements in the autofocus system in the Z6II as compared to the Z6. I would expect a similar improvement in the Z7II as compared to the Z7, although we will want to see when the Z7II is in people's hands, especially Steve, Thom Hogan and Brad Hill. The Z7II also has a bigger buffer, which may be useful for BIF and other action. I believe that Steve said on this forum that while the Z6II is not up to the standards of a D6 or even D850, it "gets the job done" for BIF.

The Z7 and Z6 are already decent wildlife cameras and I expect the II versions will be better. Not all birds are in flight. I often photograph waterbirds, wading birds, and perched birds -- in these cases, I prefer my Z7 with a 500 mm PF over my D500 or D850. I have also shot BIF with the Z7 and 500 mm PF (sometimes with a 1.4x TCIII). It's not bad, once you get to know and get used to the autofocus system, especially for larger and slower birds - eagles, swans, sandhill cranes, egrets, geese, pelicans and the like. The autofocus system is different than the one in Nikon DSLRs. Steve's book on Nikon mirrorless autofocus would be very helpful (I believe Steve has said he is planning to update it for the new ZII models). Also consider Thom Hogan's e-books on the Zs (there will be a new one for the Z7II and Z6II).

Many compare the Z cameras to the D850. But you have a D810. I recall the D850 was a material step up from the D810 as a wildlife camera. You may find that the Z7II is also a step up from the D810, even if it is not quite a D850.

There are some things in the Zs that Nikon could and should improve with firmware -- e.g., allowing selection of autofocus area with a single button press. I am hoping for firmware updates to the Zs, especially the ZIIs as we go forward. No guarantees here, although I would think it would be a smart move for Nikon. One thing that may or may not be fixable with firmware is the slideshow effect when using high extended to get more FPS. It makes following BIF difficult, when compared to the slower, regular high mode or to a DSLR.

All that said, there's nothing wrong with a Z7 and D500 combination. I used that combo last year on a trip to Gwaii Haanas (the D500 with a 500 mm PF and the Z7 with a 70-200 mm f2.8E FL lens). As things stand now, purely for BIF and other fast action, the D500 (and D850) is better than the Z7 and Z6 and probably also the Z7II and Z6II.
thanks for all your thoughts, Bill. It’s really appreciated. I sold my d810 (which is a brilliant landscape camera) some time ago as I decided to go mirrorless mainly for glass reasons. I never shot a Z6/Z7 for wildlife/BIF. My subjects usually don’t require even AF :). I sold a lot of my F-glass as well to budget for a new start. I know a bit of the AF system in the z50 (which I think is similar/same as in the z6/7) which I was able to use in the last few months. I found it frustrating for tracking and any more complex background to acquire reasonably quick focus. I’m sure a lot is technique and the full frames are probably better... as I said I have no comparison, but I can say that the z50 in that respect is not for me (and the camera was never meant to be a d500 replacement). Other then that it’s a very capable, very light and compact camera, fits almost in any pocket :)). I guess there is no right or wrong, just making decisions :))
 
thanks for all your thoughts, Bill. It’s really appreciated. I sold my d810 (which is a brilliant landscape camera) some time ago as I decided to go mirrorless mainly for glass reasons. I never shot a Z6/Z7 for wildlife/BIF. My subjects usually don’t require even AF :). I sold a lot of my F-glass as well to budget for a new start. I know a bit of the AF system in the z50 (which I think is similar/same as in the z6/7) which I was able to use in the last few months. I found it frustrating for tracking and any more complex background to acquire reasonably quick focus. I’m sure a lot is technique and the full frames are probably better... as I said I have no comparison, but I can say that the z50 in that respect is not for me (and the camera was never meant to be a d500 replacement). Other then that it’s a very capable, very light and compact camera, fits almost in any pocket :)). I guess there is no right or wrong, just making decisions :))

I appreciate that you have the Z50 experience, I missed that bit.

In that case then yes, I certainly think the D500 + Z7 original is a great combination for your uses. All these years later and still no crop sensor camera can match the D500 for difficult action photography like BIF. And all that lovely F-mount glass to put on it too!
 
I appreciate that you have the Z50 experience, I missed that bit.

In that case then yes, I certainly think the D500 + Z7 original is a great combination for your uses. All these years later and still no crop sensor camera can match the D500 for difficult action photography like BIF. And all that lovely F-mount glass to put on it too!
I think that’s probably the best combo...and then look again in 2-3years when all the nice z glass has arrived and prices cooled down :)). Thanks Sean, stay safe :))
 
One additional thought. I think the Z7 (or for that matter, the Z7II) would pair well with a D500. An interesting question is whether to use pair the Z7 body with a D850. I have done wildlife trips with both combinations — Z7 + D500 and Z7 + D850.

If you always end up cropping to a DX or smaller crop, there’s probably no reason not to go with the D500.

But at least sometimes, I find myself close to mammals or larger birds. In that case, there are a couple of advantages to a D850. If you can fill more of the frame than the DX crop, you can get “more pixels on the duck” to quote Steve with the D850— added detail/resolution and maybe better high ISO results than with the D500.

With a D850, a 500 mm lens can be like a 500 mm in FX with no crop and like a 750 mm lens (FOV anyway) using a DX crop. On a trip to Gwaii Haanas last year, I used a 500 mm PF lens on my D500 and a 70-200 mm lens on my Z7. There were times when the 500 mm PF on the D500 with the DX crop factor was too much lens. With a D850 I would have had a choice — shoot with the full FX frame or crop to DX or smaller. A bit like having the ability to zoom out a bit. (Of course, I could have put the 500 mm PF on the Z7 and the 70-200 mm on the D500 — but I wanted the 500 mm on my D500 for BIF and other faster action.)

Of course, if you are shooting with the 200-500 mm zoom, you can just zoom out a bit with the D500 and not have too much lens. So this point makes more of a difference if you are shooting with a long prime.

You do lose the D500’s 10 FPS if you go with the D850 (7 FPS or 9 FPS with a battery grip). And of course, the D850 files are bigger and the D850 is more expensive.
 
Thanks for your thoughts about the d850 which I think would have been the natural upgrade to my (sold) d810. The difference of £900 in price, makes the d500 the more ‘palatable’ choice though. As I’m primarily a landscaper and the z7 ticks most of my boxes, I think the d500 makes a great 2nd dedicated wildlife body (until the z telephoto lenses arrive anyway). I’m really excited about the 200-600mm, hopefully with a fixed aperture :)).
 
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