Don't NAS around; my experience

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BarkingBeans Coffee

BarkingBeans Coffee

Michael H
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What prompted me to finally get a NAS - actually Apple's mysterious about face on supporting thumbnails for HE*. Without being able to see the thumbnails, when choosing to open files and other tasks it got to be a PIA. I knew if I started shooting in Lossless I would eventually jam up the set up I had.

What path I took? People seemed to like the Hudson Henry video on using a Synology 1522+ with an optional 10GB port and 2 NVMe drives. The 1522 has 8mb RAM vs 4 on the 923 and an extra bay. For $100 that seemed worth it for the long run.

While Hudson gives a lot of info, as others here recommended, watch the Spacerex videos too. He goes through lots of settings such scheduling the recycling bin, smart tests both quick and extended, data scrubbing for the shared pool, power recovery, snapshot replication and more. It's not just one video. Watch the Complete Beginners Guide for for DSM 7.2, Top 6 updates, Every feature explained and others that seem interesting to you.

SpaceRex no longer recommends WD Red drives as they mark them problematic after 3 years runtime. I had purchased Seagate Ironwolf. Putting the hardware together was super easy per the video. Setting it up per the Hudson video was also pretty straightforward. The SpaceRex videos added some additional knowledge and implementation steps.

I did have an issue where the 10gb port on my OWC dock didn't have a DNS address but once I solved that, I have not had any issues.

End result is I am getting 525-600 mbs write and 1000 mbs read, and my LR is pretty snappy even with that.

I am going to use separate NVME drives for culling shoots though and then move them to the NAS.

Hope this helps if are still NASing around, trying to decide.
 
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BarkingBeansCoffee said:
What prompted me to finally get a NAS - actually Apple's mysterious about face on supporting thumbnails for HE*. Without being able to see the thumbnails, when choosing to open files and other tasks it got to be a PIA. I knew if I started shooting in Lossless I would eventually jam up the set up I had.

What path I took? People seemed to like the Hudson Henry video on using a Synology 1522+ with an optional 10GB port and 2 NVMe drives. The 1522 has 8mb RAM vs 4 on the 923 and an extra bay. For $100 that seemed worth it for the long run.

While Hudson gives a lot of info, as others here recommended, watch the Spacerex videos too. He goes through lots of settings such scheduling the recycling bin, smart tests both quick and extended, data scrubbing for the shared pool, power recovery, snapshot replication and more. It's not just one video. Watch the Complete Beginners Guide for for DSM 7.2, Top 6 updates, Every feature explained and others that seem interesting to you.

SpaceRex no longer recommends WD Red drives as they mark them problematic after 3 years runtime. I had purchased Seagate Ironwolf. Putting the hardware together was super easy per the video. Setting it up per the Hudson video was also pretty straightforward. The SpaceRex videos added some additional knowledge and implementation steps.

I did have an issue where the 10gb port on my OWC dock didn't have a DNS address but once I solved that, I have not had any issues.

End result is I am getting 525-600 mbs write and 1000 mbs read, and my LR is pretty snappy even with that.

I am going to use separate NVME drives for culling shoots though and then move them to the NAS.

Hope this helps if are still NASing around, trying to decide.
Click to expand...

Appreciate your post and your NAS details.

I'll be going through the same setup process with the same hardware (minus the 2 NVMe drives); assuming Amazon actually delivers the Synology 1522+ I purchased (1522+ was $140 off during their Prime Day deal). Currently their delivery is 2 days late and their tracking shows it's going farther away from my location...

I'll be setting up a Synology 1522+ w/ optional 10Gb port and Seagate Ironwolf drives, and using my M1 MacBook Pro with a OWC dock & its 10Gb port (I'll probably run into the same OWC dock DNS address issue you mentioned).
I've also watched Hudson Henry's Synology setup videos and a few SpaceRex videos as well, which have been very informative & helpful.

I assume the read & write transfer speeds you mentioned are MB/s (mega-bytes/sec).

What 10Gb ethernet switch are you using or would you recommend?
I was looking at a Netgear GS110MX (which includes 2 x 10Gb ports), but some reviews claim problems with the 10Gb ports (data transfer & heat issues).
I'm leaning towards the TP-Link TL-SX105 which has 5 x 10Gb ports. It has better ratings and more multi-gig ports for future use, but cost $100 more than the Netgear and probably an overkill for me.

I currently have my LR catalog on a fast external NVMe drive. I may try moving the catalog to the NAS (assuming a good 10Gb setup) and see what the performance hit is like.

Great to hear your NAS setup was pretty straightforward & you're happy with its operations!
Hopefully I'll be in the same situation soon.
 
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Hi @Lardo,

yes MB/s listed are the speeds.
I got the Netgear GS110MX. Seems fine so far. I thought about the TP link but did seem like overkill. Note Hudson mentioned the Managed version of the netgear which isn’t needed for this.
I left my catalog on an NVMe drive.

I have run into one issue using Get BackUp Pro 3 and they tell me it’s the OWC driver. The driver is really their Dock Ejector software but I think it’s also the driver for the charging port. There may have been an update and I will install it again after I get back home. It prevents scheduled backups from completing. I have sent the log file to OWC today. It’s a minor issue for me at the moment.

Will be interesting to see if you get speed you are satisfied with without the NVMe drives. I have no idea so I just went with them. SpaceRex suggested one as a read cache only if I am recalling that correctly.

Otherwise it’s all good so far.
 
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Lardo said:
Thanks @BarkingBeansCoffee for your fast response and feedback on the Netgear GS110MX.

I'm not familiar with Get BackUp Pro 3. I may try GoodSync that Hudson talks about, but it might have the same issue with the OWC driver...
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I bought GoodSync years ago on a lifetime buy before they started subscription service. It is the best. I backup/sync my OWC 4 drive bay and Synology NAS with no problems.
 
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Lardo said:
Thanks @BarkingBeansCoffee for your fast response and feedback on the Netgear GS110MX.

I'm not familiar with Get BackUp Pro 3. I may try GoodSync that Hudson talks about, but it might have the same issue with the OWC driver...
Click to expand...
Could be that I enabled the new multichannel feature SpaceRex mentioned. I won’t be able to test until I return. I’m sure something will get sorted out.
 
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It's interesting that this topic came up. I just bought a Synology 1522+ and three 18TB Seagate Exos drives during Amazon's Prime days. They arrived on Saturday, and I installed it on Sunday. I was not aware of Henry Hudson's video, so I only watched Spacerex. I watched his videos a couple of times, and then played his setup guide while following along during installation. Everything went very smoothly.

I did not buy the optional 10GB port or additional NVMe drives. I wanted to see how it ran stock before adding anything to the mix. To be honest, I have no issues with the speed as is. I have not sorted out how I will deal with my LR classic files yet, but will probably put the LR catalog on my Desktop internal MVMe drive and the images on the NAS. Right now I am just using the NAS as a backup, using Bart to place a copy of all of my data and image files on the NAS.

If it matters, I am using a PC desktop computer (Win 11 Pro), not anything Apple, and installation could not have gone better. Now I just have to learn about all of the software that Synology offers and figure out which apps are useful to me.
 
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Henry Hudson is an excellent photographer but he knows next to nothing about computer technology. NVME are useful where space is very limited as in a laptop. These solid state memory modules produce a lot of heat and this shortens their life. I have two in a workstation and have had two of them fail in the past 18 months.

On the other hand I have two NAS with Western Digital Red drives engineered for use in a NAS array and have only one drive failure in the past 15 years. Even then it was because I made the mistake of using the WD Red Pro drives which run at much higher rpms and so would operate at 10-15 degrees higher than the slower RAID drives. The faster drives do not improve data I/O in a RAID enclosure where there are other gating factors including the operating system, CPU, and RAM caching.

Synology and QNAP provide the best post sale support for their NAS and QNAP provides many additional utilities to use for auto backups of computers and support for media catalogs and so forth. Having started with a Buffalo NAS in 2006 and used a Netgear NAS and a Synology NAS the QNAP ones have proven to be the best in every respect.

Having a fast output port on a RAID is fine if your switch is able to support that speed and also the computer needs to have that ability as well. One of my NAS has a 10GB port but my 10-port switch only supports 1GB data I/O and only my workstation has a 10GB PCIe card that I could add. Few switches will support their rated I/O if multiple ports are used at the same time.

I use NAS specific drives and get the ones with slower rpms and use them in an enclosure with an automatic fan control. I also do an auto shutdown from 12 to 8 a.m. and this reduces the hours of operation by 33%. I also have the NAS set to have the hard drive go into sleep mode if there is no access for one hour.

I earned my living dealing with computer technology engineering and development for more than 30 years and have a bit more of an understanding than Henry. There are hundreds of websites covering computer software and hardware and applications and this is where one should be getting their information. The reviews of various NAS devices and switches and routers by dozens or hundreds of customers is another good source of relevant information. I would not be asking questions on these forums as to which camera or lens to buy and the same applies to the questions one should ask on a forum for photography.
 
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Calson said:
Henry Hudson is an excellent photographer but he knows next to nothing about computer technology. NVME are useful where space is very limited as in a laptop. These solid state memory modules produce a lot of heat and this shortens their life. I have two in a workstation and have had two of them fail in the past 18 months.

On the other hand I have two NAS with Western Digital Red drives engineered for use in a NAS array and have only one drive failure in the past 15 years. Even then it was because I made the mistake of using the WD Red Pro drives which run at much higher rpms and so would operate at 10-15 degrees higher than the slower RAID drives. The faster drives do not improve data I/O in a RAID enclosure where there are other gating factors including the operating system, CPU, and RAM caching.

Synology and QNAP provide the best post sale support for their NAS and QNAP provides many additional utilities to use for auto backups of computers and support for media catalogs and so forth. Having started with a Buffalo NAS in 2006 and used a Netgear NAS and a Synology NAS the QNAP ones have proven to be the best in every respect.

Having a fast output port on a RAID is fine if your switch is able to support that speed and also the computer needs to have that ability as well. One of my NAS has a 10GB port but my 10-port switch only supports 1GB data I/O and only my workstation has a 10GB PCIe card that I could add. Few switches will support their rated I/O if multiple ports are used at the same time.

I use NAS specific drives and get the ones with slower rpms and use them in an enclosure with an automatic fan control. I also do an auto shutdown from 12 to 8 a.m. and this reduces the hours of operation by 33%. I also have the NAS set to have the hard drive go into sleep mode if there is no access for one hour.

I earned my living dealing with computer technology engineering and development for more than 30 years and have a bit more of an understanding than Henry. There are hundreds of websites covering computer software and hardware and applications and this is where one should be getting their information. The reviews of various NAS devices and switches and routers by dozens or hundreds of customers is another good source of relevant information. I would not be asking questions on these forums as to which camera or lens to buy and the same applies to the questions one should ask on a forum for photography.
Click to expand...
Fair points, any recommendations for websites with helpful reliable information on Synology ?
 
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Just a note of caution. Adobe has code in LrC that attempts to identify a NAS to prevent storing the catalog on a NAS. Much safer to keep the catalog and preview files on a fast SSD (internal or external) and only store the photos on the NAS.
 
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Quick update here -

My NAS is running well. Speed test below. I sent the OWC Thunderbolt Pro dock back under and RMA and they returned it to me saying it was fine Card reader still runs hot but is fast. I make sure I don't leave the card in long. Sometimes using it disconnects in the internet connection. What I don't like most is there is only one Thunderbolt port other than the one that goes to my Mac. I didn't realize my two NMVE thunderbolt drives wouldn't work in the USB C slots. Right now I am living with it but don't think I would buy it again. Everything else from the setup is working well.

I did switch my backup program to Carbon Copy Cloner and I think that is fabulous software. The OWC dock driver was interfering with my other program but CC is way better so that turned out ok.
 

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For bare NAS the Synology boxes and operating system works well enough. For a NAS to provide data backup and media streaming and FTP services the QNAP are the way to go. The whole point of a NAS with multiple drives is that when one does fail there is no data lost. I keep a spare drive so when one drive fails I can immediately replace it and continue to use the NAS while the new drive is being incorporated into the array.

With a 2-drive NAS only 50% is available and with a 4-driver NAS there is 75% of the total drive capacity (less 9-10 percent for format overhead) that is available to the user.

My QNAP has 3 1GB Ethernet ports and one 10GB port. For the wifi router the 1GB Ethernet is all that is needed. For my workstation I do a NAS to computer 10GB Ethernet connection. My switch is limited to 1GB ports and so it is the limiting factor at this time.

NAS performance depends on the port speed and on the RAID processing being done. The boxes that use a Linux variant to do RAID in software are a lot slower than the NAS that implement RAID with hardware. Drive speed is not important with a NAS RAID array and so the slower NAS drives can be used. The lower RPM drives run a lot cooler and so last longer. The SSD are in theory more reliable but that is not the reality and they only make sense in a high volume server or with a NAS being used by a team to process video files.
 
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Calson said:
Henry Hudson is an excellent photographer but he knows next to nothing about computer technology. NVME are useful where space is very limited as in a laptop. These solid state memory modules produce a lot of heat and this shortens their life. I have two in a workstation and have had two of them fail in the past 18 months.

On the other hand I have two NAS with Western Digital Red drives engineered for use in a NAS array and have only one drive failure in the past 15 years. Even then it was because I made the mistake of using the WD Red Pro drives which run at much higher rpms and so would operate at 10-15 degrees higher than the slower RAID drives. The faster drives do not improve data I/O in a RAID enclosure where there are other gating factors including the operating system, CPU, and RAM caching.

Synology and QNAP provide the best post sale support for their NAS and QNAP provides many additional utilities to use for auto backups of computers and support for media catalogs and so forth. Having started with a Buffalo NAS in 2006 and used a Netgear NAS and a Synology NAS the QNAP ones have proven to be the best in every respect.

Having a fast output port on a RAID is fine if your switch is able to support that speed and also the computer needs to have that ability as well. One of my NAS has a 10GB port but my 10-port switch only supports 1GB data I/O and only my workstation has a 10GB PCIe card that I could add. Few switches will support their rated I/O if multiple ports are used at the same time.

I use NAS specific drives and get the ones with slower rpms and use them in an enclosure with an automatic fan control. I also do an auto shutdown from 12 to 8 a.m. and this reduces the hours of operation by 33%. I also have the NAS set to have the hard drive go into sleep mode if there is no access for one hour.

I earned my living dealing with computer technology engineering and development for more than 30 years and have a bit more of an understanding than Henry. There are hundreds of websites covering computer software and hardware and applications and this is where one should be getting their information. The reviews of various NAS devices and switches and routers by dozens or hundreds of customers is another good source of relevant information. I would not be asking questions on these forums as to which camera or lens to buy and the same applies to the questions one should ask on a forum for photography.
Click to expand...
I agree with all of this and in addition Henry suggests using RAID 5 . Using RAID 5 with cheap consumer drives practically guarantees an unrecoverable RAID failure. You should only use commercial grade drives and either RAID 0 or RAID 10.
 
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RAID 5 was created years ago when hard drives were expensive and they were not very large. But as disks grew in larger the potential of an error on a bad sector became more likely. RAID 5 can only tolerate 1 error and when you are running TBs of data the chances of more than 1 error increases especially since one of your disks is already failing. Getting a 2nd error is likely and then your entire image is blown. Hence no backup. RAID 5 is still used in data centers where data isn’t critical and hardware speed is the most important factor for the RAID array. A more detailed explanation is here: https://www.askdbmgt.com/why-raid5-should-be-avoided-at-all-costs.html

A google search on “should I use RAID 5 in my data center “ will bring up dozens of similar articles.

Yes you can change over. Some NAS units will do it on the fly. Most will require you to start over depending upon your exact circumstances.

I warn people again about consumer grade drives. It only cost about 50% more to get commercial grade drives and they are definitely worth it. Another option here is to get Mil grade drives but that may be a bit of overkill for most people.
 
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@SBurkholder in his most recent video he recommended SHR which is a version of Raid 5 I am reading. What are your thoughts on that and if you don't like that what's your recommendation for a home user. He also recommended commercial grade drives (I got Seagate IronWolf). What he did recommend that hasn't worked well for me is the OWC Thunderbolt Dock - does provide me 10gb access to the NAS but there are other issues.
 
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I’m not sure that I am the best person to answer your questions here because I don’t use Synology products. SHR appears to be a disk management program that gets you around the problem of requiring common size disks in a RAID 5 array. IOW, allowing you to mount different size disks to create your array. Traditional RAID arrays required all disks to be the same size. It doesn’t seem to provide any additional protection at the hardware level. So I would conclude that all of my concerns above about using RAID 5 are still valid.

I use the ReadyNAS units from Netgear. I don’t see them suggested in these forums but they have been a solid product for me for over 15 years. I would recommend them to anyone looking to purchase a new NAS or upgrading.
 
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