Focus on Moon

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steigw

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I've not been able to get a sharp focus on the moon. Just tried this morning as the full moon was still up. Used a 500mm PF with 1.4TC and a Z100-400 with 1.4TC. Both lenses returned a fuzzy image. I also experienced this back when we had the full moon twice in one month. I'm assuming I can just use autofocus? Particularly for this morning's shots there should be more than enough ambient light to allow autofocus to work. I've not noticed that the lenses have problems focusing while shooting wildlife, so I'm thinking there must be something special about the moon? I would think the camera would just focus to infinity and leave it at that? The image looked sharp in the Z9 viewfinder, but granted the moon looked small, so might not be able to tell. Appreciate some guidance.
 
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steigw said:
I've not been able to get a sharp focus on the moon. Just tried this morning as the full moon was still up. Used a 500mm PF with 1.4TC and a Z100-400 with 1.4TC. Both lenses returned a fuzzy image. I also experienced this back when we had the full moon twice in one month. I'm assuming I can just use autofocus? Particularly for this morning's shots there should be more than enough ambient light to allow autofocus to work. I've not noticed that the lenses have problems focusing while shooting wildlife, so I'm thinking there must be something special about the moon? I would think the camera would just focus to infinity and leave it at that? The image looked sharp in the Z9 viewfinder, but granted the moon looked small, so might not be able to tell. Appreciate some guidance.
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What were your ISO, shutter speed and aperture settings for the shot? Did you get in-focus confirmation within the viewfinder when you took the shot? Was the camera hand-held, or on a tripod or other support?

When photographing the sunlit moon in a clear sky, you can always use the "sunny 16 rule" as the moon is illuminated by direct sunlight. It is all the other items that your camera may be metering on that causes exposure issues. There is really nothing special about photographing the moon, to answer your one question.

Since you state that the moon looked small, it may be that your camera took an average meter reading for exposure, which led to a longer exposure time that caused your image problems.
 
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steigw said:
I've not been able to get a sharp focus on the moon. Just tried this morning as the full moon was still up. Used a 500mm PF with 1.4TC and a Z100-400 with 1.4TC. Both lenses returned a fuzzy image. I also experienced this back when we had the full moon twice in one month. I'm assuming I can just use autofocus? Particularly for this morning's shots there should be more than enough ambient light to allow autofocus to work. I've not noticed that the lenses have problems focusing while shooting wildlife, so I'm thinking there must be something special about the moon? I would think the camera would just focus to infinity and leave it at that? The image looked sharp in the Z9 viewfinder, but granted the moon looked small, so might not be able to tell. Appreciate some guidance.
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The moon is moving faster than you might think. A short SS is required or you will have blur due to the moon moving.
 
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Both lenses were shot handheld using a Z9 setup per Steve's guidelines.

With the 500pf/1.4TC it was ISO 1600, 700mm, F8, 1/800 sec

With the Z100-400 / 1.4 tc it was ISO 2000, 560mm F9, 1/3200 sec.

I took the pictures with the 500PF first, pulled them into LRC and saw how fuzzy they were, went back out with the other lens and used a faster shutter speed just in case I had wobbled a bit and got a similar result.
 
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tclune said:
Could it have been atmospheric haze? Especially when the moon is lower in the sky, this could be a problem. Just a thought.
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I suppose this could be the problem. I live in the Treasure Valley (Boise ID area) and heavy haze can be a problem. I was shooting to the west, away from where the haze really stacks up against the Boise foothills, so I thought I was in the clear.
 
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The first shutter speed (1/800 sec) is, for me, "iffy" at that focal length, but the second (1/3200 sec) should be good shot hand held. Your second shot's EXIF data looks to be within one stop of what I would expect to shoot the moon at, under a clear sky. However, since it was shot to the west, I assume the moon was lower in the sky and the exposure would be skewed in the direction you've taken. As tclune points out in their earlier post, atmospheric conditions (haze or heat shimmer, etc.) may be the primary issue causing image quality problems.
 
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Whiskeyman said:
The first shutter speed (1/800 sec) is, for me, "iffy" at that focal length, but the second (1/3200 sec) should be good shot hand held.

With either of the shots, did you get in-viewfinder focus confirmation? Can you try this again on a tripod? Is the aperture posted for each shot the effective aperture with the TC attached, and as registered in the EXIF data for the photo?

If you post the images, someone else on the forum may give their opinion of what the issue may be.
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I think I had in-viewfinder focus confirmation. Is that when the rectangle changes color? I'm not 100% sure on that now. I could try a tripod again maybe tomorrow morning assuming conditions allow it. the moon is gone now. The aperture is what LRC shows in the upper right under the histogram, so I think that is the actual aperture the picture was taken with. I tried to upload the RAW files, but the forum software wouldn't allow it. I then exported to jpeg and still couldn't upload it. So there must be guidelines as to what size/format is allowed that I'm unsure of.
 
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Nothing special about focusing on the moon. I've always simply used autofocus. Sounds like your issue is atmospheric distortion and/or haze. Particularly if you're shooting rising/setting moon where you're shooting horizontally through disturbed air. Shooting when the moon is high produces a lot less atmospheric problems.

If you're shooting handheld even with VR it's a good idea to lean on something to help steady the lens.
 
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NorthernFocus said:
Nothing special about focusing on the moon. I've always simply used autofocus. Sounds like your issue is atmospheric distortion and/or haze. Particularly if you're shooting rising/setting moon where you're shooting horizontally through disturbed air. Shooting when the moon is high produces a lot less atmospheric problems.

If you're shooting handheld even with VR it's a good idea to lean on something to help steady the lens.
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steigw said:
I think I had in-viewfinder focus confirmation. Is that when the rectangle changes color? I'm not 100% sure on that now. I could try a tripod again maybe tomorrow morning assuming conditions allow it. the moon is gone now. The aperture is what LRC shows in the upper right under the histogram, so I think that is the actual aperture the picture was taken with. I tried to upload the RAW files, but the forum software wouldn't allow it. I then exported to jpeg and still couldn't upload it. So there must be guidelines as to what size/format is allowed that I'm unsure of.
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Here are the sizing guidelines. You probably tried to upload too large of a file.

Forum Image Size Guidelines

Forum Image Size Guidelines
bcgforums.com bcgforums.com
 
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I take moon shots all the time in my backyard using the same equipment you use. However, I always try and use a tripod and the self timer to trigger the shutter to remove any camera movement from me touching the shutter release button. And VR is always set to Off. My shutter speeds are round 1/200 to 1/600.

For most shots I use AF. But I always take some where I focus the lens manually. In some cases the shots taken with manual focus are sharper. If there are clouds present MF yields better results than AF. And for moon shots taken near the horizon, atmospheric conditions play a large role in getting sharp focus and I usually use MF for these shots.

Given your shooting settings, if VR is set to ON, it my be contributing toor causing the apparent lack of focus. I rarely use VR when shooting a shutter speeds of 1/1000 or higher, hand held or on a tripod.
 
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joe43 said:
I take moon shots all the time in my backyard using the same equipment you use. However, I always try and use a tripod and the self timer to trigger the shutter to remove any camera movement from me touching the shutter release button. And VR is always set to Off. My shutter speeds are round 1/200 to 1/600.

For most shots I use AF. But I always take some where I focus the lens manually. In some cases the shots taken with manual focus are sharper. If there are clouds present MF yields better results than AF. And for moon shots taken near the horizon, atmospheric conditions play a large role in getting sharp focus and I usually use MF for these shots.

Given your shooting settings, if VR is set to ON, it my be contributing toor causing the apparent lack of focus. I rarely use VR when shooting a shutter speeds of 1/1000 or higher, hand held or on a tripod.
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I definitely had VR on and will try it off and see how that works out.
 
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tclune said:
Could it have been atmospheric haze? Especially when the moon is lower in the sky, this could be a problem. Just a thought.
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Maybe as we have had terrible conditions here in Scottsdale and I noticed that my shots high in the sky were fine, but as it went down I wanted shots with Saguaros in front of it and all those were crap.
 
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When I photograph the moon, I set the shutter speed to 1/1600 or so, aperture to f/8-11, and then set negative exposure comp to when I get the brightness I want, in this case -2.3. Handheld.

Cheers,

George

Full Moon 28 Oct 2023.jpeg
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Sometimes the moon is too bright for the camera to properly grab focus - it needs contrast for successful focus. Since the moon is so far away, depth of field is not important. With a night shot like the one immediately above (nice image by the way), if you cannot achieve proper focus, move the focus point so that it is on the edge of the moon. The contrast between the bright moon and black sky will often help achieve better focus.

Also, often one can make out better details at the edges where the moon becomes covered in shadow in cases other than full moon. The craters show more clearly due to the light hitting the moon at an angle and creating more shadows. Below is a daylight shot I got early in the morning. Even though the white balance is not necessarily accurate, I like the the overall blue tones. Note the shutter speed - high shutter speeds are not necessary if you gear has decent vibration reduction. This was shot hand-held.

NZ8_2670.jpg
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I took a shot of the moon awhile back on a cloudy night and I found that when you're zoomed in you don't see the thin clouds as well in the viewfinder. Those clouds covered up some of the detail in the moon and someone commented about the lack of detail. But you couldn't tell by looking at the pic that a cloud was the culprit, only I knew that. So, a cloud could be one possible answer.
 
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Here is a shot I took on 29th Aug. 23. I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination.
But took this shot and am very pleased with it. Could the atmosphere down in New Zealand be clearer than other parts of the world ??
The settings are; Z9, 800/6.3, 1/2000, F/ 6.3, ISO 1250, EXP 0.3. On a tripod.
Z9K_2256 (2) BCGrsz.jpg
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